Subject: SMML VOL 1538 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 00:30:47 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Sub speed 2: Aurora Roman Bireme Warship 3: Re: sub speeds 4: Flank Speeds and Dumbest Exercise 5: Technical advice 6: Big E speed 7: Re: Speed 8: Re: Desparately seeking Repulse 9: Re: 1/600 Ships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Sub speed Hi SMMLies, Being a former Electric Boat employee for 13 years I had plenty of time to work on and learn about the 688's and the Seawolf class. The Seawolf is fast, very fast. All I can say is that during both A and B sea trials they lost some sonar equipment to a great extent and along with some other things I can't mention. What I mean by "lost" is that it was ripped right off the hull from the water. I had the opportunity to machine many things that went into Seawolf and seen her go from a single hull cylinder to a complete boat. I have allot of pride in that sub and I am happy to be one of the many who built her. I wish I was able to talk more about her but I won't. I know all you model and nautical type would love to see the inside of one for it is very interesting indeed. I'm fortunate that I had that opportunity to be there. What will sum it up is she is an awesome sight inside and out. Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bill & Kaja Michaels" Subject: Aurora Roman Bireme Warship I have a copy of the "Young Model Builder's Club" version of the Aurora Roman Bireme Warship kit. I picked it up years ago, and I just discovered that it has no instruction sheet. Does anyone have a copy of the instructions from this kit that they'd be willing to scan or photocopy for me? I'd reimburse expenses, of course. BTW- Does anyone know what scale this kit is? I assume it is not from the same molds as the Imai/Academy/Minicraft/Ertl Roman Warship kit, right? Thanks for any help, Bill Check out my US Coast Guard subjects model list at: http://www.tiac.net/users/billkaja/kitlist.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ives100@aol.com Subject: Re: sub speeds >> I think it would take a brave or a trusting man to run a Electric Boat built 688 class at either full speed or max depth. Bad enough that welders would sign logs indicating they made welds that didn't exist but when the QC inspectors sign logs that say they inspected non existent welds I'd really get worried! << That was a long time ago; most notably the early 688 USS Philadelphia, "the sub that was built twice". That was in the early 80's when EB was swamped with work on the 688 and Tridents. Couldn't hire enough good people fast enough. With regard to top speed, a submarine is not real stealthy at top speed, so runs at speed are not real common. Nor can submarine passive sensors work real well at high speed due to flow noise. Big advance with Seawolf was a higher tactical speed, that is she is quiet at a higher speed and can use her passive sonar at speeds where the 688 class would be "deaf" from self flow noise. Tom Dougherty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Don Simon" Subject: Flank Speeds and Dumbest Exercise Hello All, You don't need to be going at some fantastic high speed to rapidly find yourself in trouble. Here's an incident from my 1986 deployment to the Med aboard USS BAINBRIDGE (CGN 25). While I still claim I wasn't scared, I could see "being scared" from where I was! A typical aircraft carrier battlegroup (CVBG) has about 15 ships assigned to it. For BAINBRIDGE the aircraft carrier was USS JOHN F. KENNEDY (aka the "John F. Can Opener" after her "encounter" with USS BELKNAP). Towards the end of our deployment we were directed to rendevous with the NIMITZ CVBG, which was relieving our CVBG. Rendevous time was set for 1200 for all ships in both CVBG's. On the morning of the rendevous I had just taken the 0700-1200 watch as Officer of the Deck (OOD). Minutes later our commanding officer, Captain Tom Gilmartin (a great CO), told me he wanted to get to the rendevous an hour early and he wanted to know what speed was necessary to get there at 1100. "29 knots, Captain" I replied. "OOD, make it so" was Captain Gilmartin's brief reply. "Aye, aye, sir. Right standard rudder, steady course 010. All engines ahead flank, indicate turns for 29 knots." It's a lot of fun to really haul it... Unfortunately, the rendevous plan gave only a single rendevous point and time (Uh Oh). Add to that the guide ship was one of two Belknap class CG's present - both ships were nearly identical visually (Uh Oh Oh). Finally, guess who also had the idea to get there one hour early - EVERYBODY ELSE!!! (Oh S***). Suddenly there were 33 ships, including two 90,000+ ton aircraft carriers, charging at flank speed towards a single point in the ocean. Talk about co-ordinated time on top! Nearly simultaneously everyone realized what was going on and decided to "bail out", scattering in random directions. For the next hour it was complete pandemonium, and I vividly remember a French destroyer nearly ramming us on our starboard side. Yet, amazingly enough, there were no collisions, and 33 NATO ships in a perfect 3 column formation steamed into Augusta Bay, Sicily, as planned. Don Simon Troy, VA USA USS BAINBRIDGE (CGN 25) 1985-1987 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: gil.angie.alden@juno.com Subject: Technical advice I just recieved an email from Bob Pearson who recommended that I drop you guys a line. I am looking for techincal data and photos for the following: The PT-15 JMSDF craft modeled in 1/72 by Tamiya and info on Japanese destroyers WW2. I have the PT-15 kit and the Nichimo Shiranue in 1/200. Any advice and pointers you can give would be greatly appreciated. Cordially, Gil Alden -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Kent Lingenfelter" Subject: Big E speed I served aboard the Enterprise from 65-68. I recall in January of 68 pulling out of Sasebo, Japan very suddenly and cutting our stay short by a couple of days. It seemed as though we had no sooner cleared the harbor and the ship started shuddering which was normal when she would get up around 30 knots speed. This went on for a couple of hours when curiosity started getting to getting to us in RDS (NTDS shop). We checked the course and speed inputs to our computer system and we were doing 36 knots on a course of 270, instead of 180 which would have taken us to Subic Bay, PI. After four or five hours the Captain came over the 1MC and announced that the USS Pueblo had been hijacked by North Korea and the Enterprise was to remain off shore until further notice, which ended up being 45 days before finally departing for "Yankee Station". To make a long story short, that 36 knots equates to 41 MPH. Don't know if that was top speed, but it's faster than my 135HP Mercrusier will push my 17' I/O. I had the opportunity one time to tour the reactor spaces and the bilges while aboard the Enterprise. I recall standing next to one of the propeller shafts that was rotating at at maybe 40 or 50 RPM's. My buddy, one of the MM's that worked in the Engineering spaces, said that this section, which was about 75-80' long and maybe 3' in diameter, would twist about 10 degrees when under full torgue. Kent Lingenfelter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: joe.sus@att.net Subject: Re: Speed It's interesting how rated speeds vs. real world speeds changed over time. Before WW2, the trial speed quoted was with polished hull bottoms, light load, and dead calm seas, reaching speeds never again to be obtained. It impressed the taxpayers who payed for the ships, though. When I was a kid reading about "31 knot" Burke, I thought it was meant as faint praise, since he was commanding DDs rated at 36. Today, the rated speed is usually much more realistic, and could be beaten in real life under better than standard conditions. Instead, it's more often aircraft that get the high estimates these days. The F-4 Phantom was supposed to do Mach 2.45, but to do anything above Mach 2, the plane had to be clean (unarmed) and once the slatted tail was added, slower still. Joe Suszynski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Neil Taylor" Subject: Re: Desparately seeking Repulse I too will open my wallet Neil Taylor. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Peter Webster Subject: Re: 1/600 Ships I'm usually a 'quiet' lad on this list as I only model in 1/600 and new kits haven't come out for a long, long time. This has necessitated scratchbuilding stuff. Surely someone can put out some of the smaller vessels in resin - sloops, A/S vessels, how about an Insect class or a Flower class??. I would be happy with just enough for me to then add the detailing. Peter W of Sydney, Oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume