Subject: SMML VOL 1539 Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 11:56:51 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: EB BOATS 2: SD-14 3: Re: EB Boats in the 80s 4: New 1/600 Scale Kits 5: Re: Desparately seeking Repulse 6: Re: Sub Speeds 7: Speed 8: USS ORLECK/TCG YUCETEPE 9: Re: 1/600 Kits 10: Tamiya 1/350 ships database 11: Re: 1:600 scale ships 12: Pearl Harbor 13: SHIP SPEEDS 14: Seaview kit 15: Re: ships speed 16: GOLD MEDAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: EB BOATS >> I think it would take a brave or a trusting man to run a Electric Boat built 688 class at either full speed or max depth. Bad enough that welders would sign logs indicating they made welds that didn't exist but when the QC inspectors sign logs that say they inspected non existent welds I'd really get worried! << Sad but true, shipmates. I worked at "The Boat" in Groton for several years and was involved with the SubSafe program and Non-Destructive Testing, Engineering, and the FBM Weapons System. We saw things such as laminar flaws in rolled HY80 steel (invisible to X rays, passed by QC inspectors, caught by ultrasonic testing aboard the Boat.) Also things such as welding rods laid in the vee-joint of a weld, this to increase the speed of welding and let a welder make more than his quota for his shift, missing radiographs and documentation to show that such and such was inspected by NDT, etc. It appeared that the primary responsibility of the Ship Super, an EB manager for boats on the ways, was to make his delivery/launching date come hell or high water. Sort of reminds one of the NASA space shuttle that self-destructed. Old Hands used to say, "EB boat in peacetime, Portsmouth boat in wartime". Seems they trusted Portsmouth more than Groton. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: JAVASEA75@aol.com Subject: SD-14 Would anyone out there have any information on where to get a hold of an SD-14 model kit. Saw this once a long time ago, as memory serves it was rigid card stock and very involved. This is a single house aft freighter. Thanks for the help. Jean -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Re: EB Boats in the 80s >> That was a long time ago; most notably the early 688 USS Philadelphia, "the sub that was built twice". That was in the early 80's when EB was swamped with work on the 688 and Tridents. Couldn't hire enough good people fast enough. << I should hope quality was a lot better by the 80s! My time frame of reference was early to mid 60s (616, 627, 640 class Boomers; 613, very early 637 fast attacks). Mid 60s to mid 70s I was still involved with SSBNs, but no longer at Groton. Boat. Gene Katz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Felix Bustelo Subject: New 1/600 Scale Kits I am very glad to see that I am not the only 1/600 scale fanatic out there! I have mentioned these items on my website, International Maritime Modeling, but I will repeat them here. Atlantic Models (a.k.a. Peter Hall of WEM fame) is hard at work on creating a 1/600 scale resin kit of a Type 42 destroyer with option to build a Batch 1 or Batch 2 version. The kit will be waterline with a full hull option that will lock into place just like the 1/350 scale Knox and Adams class kits he mastered for WEM. Photoetch and decals will be included. Peter is awaiting an estimate from the casters so he can determine the kit price. Cascade Modelwerks (a.k.a. Joe D'Amato) is planning an line of 1/600 scale resin multimedia kits. Currently being worked on are 3 WW2 USN subjects - USS Witchita, USS San Francisco and USS Essex (short-hull version). He was others planned but I cannot reveal them yet but they will include non USN subjects. So some of you willing to open the wallet up for new 1/600 kits - you will have the chance to put your money where your mouth is. Keep an eye on IMM for additional info as it becomes available. Felix Bustelo International Maritime Modeling URL: http://members.tripod.com/~Febus65/imm.htm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: drwells@hogpb.mt.att.com (David R Wells) Subject: Re: Desparately seeking Repulse "john fiebke" wrote: >> Can't help you on your search for the Repulse, though I remember passing it up many times as a youth in the not that distant past. Sadly enough for a snap-tite Ford Mustang (I was five....). << I've never had much trouble finding Repulses. They're out there. If all else fails, there's always (yech!) e-bay. >> But I too have been recently bitten by the 1/600 bug...small enough to collect, and I like full-hull. << I strongly agree with you there. Some time back, Peter Hall/Atlantic Models was talking about making a 1/600 Dido class CL, but I don't know what ever became of that project. >> Don't tell that to all my waterline ships, though. Anyway...it reminds me of a question I've been meaning to ask. How is the 1/600 Arii/Otaki Yamato/Musashi? << Mike B. already said pretty much the same thing, but the 1/600 Arii Yamato is pretty good. The major faults are results of motorization, e.g. the big gouge in the hull for the centrally mounted propeller. I also had a little trouble getting the 5" gun barrels to fit nicely. David R. Wells Who still has to restart his long-stalled 1/600 Renown project "There seems to be something wrong | David R. Wells with our bloody ships today" | AT&T Labs, Middletown, NJ Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 | http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: Sub Speeds >> That is classified, but it is generally given in public literature as just above 30 knots. In his book, "Running Critical", Patrick Tyler discusses the speed issue with US Nuclear submarines. Basically, they got bigger (more wetted hull, hence more resistance) and heavier thorugh Skipjack, Thresher/Permit and Sturgeon classes, all of which had the same S5W reactor. Speed dropped off. The LAs were made specifically to break 30 knots, using the more powerful S6G reactor. In order to reduce weight, the hulls were made lighter (thinner), thus giving up some of the diving depth gained wih the Thresher/Permits and Sturgeons. Seawolf is reported to be very fast with her S9G reactor, and she has HY-100 steel for her hull, stronger than the HY80 of the the three preceding classes. How fast, how deep? "In excess of 24 knots and depths in excess of 800 feet << Mr. Daugherty: Your Reference 688 Class submarines top speed being classified and the bigger and more surface are hence more resistance is true but the rest is hog wash! Weight has nothing to due with a submarines Speed let me say that again WEIGHT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH A SUBMARINES SPEED If she at a hover condition (Read Boomer) she is neutrally buoyant or SSN (read Fast Attach Boat) so there for weighs as much as the water surrounding her to in effect while submerge red she weighs nothing. weight on a Submarine has few applications one being inertia (to get it moving or stopped) or buoyancy, too much weight not enough ballast tanks sub sinks, to much ballast tank not enough weight Sub wont be a Sub cant go under, the designers of the L.A. Class needed to lighten her hull to account for the heavier Reactor ,and the purpose of not having to redesign the Ballast tanks and there for the whole Submarine again and as a result lost some of her depth on the Flight 1, Now on the flight 2 and 3 she has again been redesigned the reason Submarines can only go so fast is shape which equates to resistance or drag and propeller shape, size and efficiency and how quiet you want to run {example look at torpedoes (miniature Submarine) have been know and clocked to well over 60 knots and now the Russian Torpedo (remains to be seen) claims 200 knots limiting factors on them less fiction, yes they are Very fast but at the same time NOISY with a capital N and one way mission design, we tend to want our submarine quiet and returning, getting back to the propeller that is why the Sea Wolf went with the impeller design it can run at a higher speed with out the tip cavitation causes by open ended props, not that she cant cavitate (suck air) if provoked by going full astern from a full ahead condition and vice versa but at cruising speed is allot quieter and more efficient at propelling her at a HIGHER+ speed than publicly stated Yes they are very very fast underwater 30 Knots+ my foot yea if you want to take all day getting somewhere and after talking with a couple of gents that have been on a Sea wolf they all wanted to go back to the 688's more room and easier to get around on and with out getting myself thrown into the Brig or getting my access restricted I will stop at that John Anderson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Jim Mc Subject: Speed In regards to speed, I too will add my favorite story. I served on USS Pegasus (Hydrofoils), and can say w/o question that the rated speed of 48 knots was well below what we could achieve under ideal conditions. There was a story about on of the CO's, who ordered a crash stop from 55knot foil borne, while not strapped into his seat (SOP while foilborne). Needless to say, an O5 does not beat an instrument panel... or a glass windshield. The story has it that he was medevaced, and never seen again, and that he suffered massive skull injuries. Granted, it's one of those "this aint no shit...." stories, but I can't say one way or the other. I know MY CO would never, ever, on his WORST day, pull a stunt like this. Jim Mc -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Robert L. Orleck" Subject: USS ORLECK/TCG YUCETEPE Hi: I was surfing the net and saw where it seems to indicate there is a model for the USS ORLECK/TCG YUCETEPE. Is that so? I would like more information. Thanks Bob Orleck Executive Director USS ORLECK DD 886 ASSOCIATION P.O. Box 174 Randolph, VT 05060 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Phil M. Gollin" Subject: Re: 1/600 Kits Peter Hall of Atlantic Models, via White Ensign Models, was planning to release some 1/600th detail kits for the Airfix King George V and a new kit of HMS Dido. Maybe if enough people ask, he will be able to start them. But I agree, a WW2 Renown and Illustrious class carrier would be great -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Michael Taylor" Subject: Tamiya 1/350 ships database Hi All, Well I pulled the KGV of the shelf planning to get it going in the not too distant future and found myself wondering what needs to be done to it to correct any errors, what the correct scheme would be for the time presented and what aftermarket goodies are available. This further prompted me to post this message asking our learned membership to suggest these responces to all Tamiyas 1/350 BB's with the hopes our illustrious web master/mistress may find a spot on the SMML website to place this volume of information. So I ask this: If you have knowledge of these kits please post it here including timeframe each kit represents (regardless of the instructions or when Tamita attempted to represent it) Correct scheme or color, any corrections to be made, and available aftermarket parts and reference material. I'll be downloading and keeping track of this information as well (I suspect) as many others. Cheers.... Mike T -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Lkjohnson214@aol.com Subject: Re: 1:600 scale ships Check the International Maritime modelling website. Thelatest gouge is that Joe D'Amato is working on three US ships (Wichita, San Francisco and Essex) in 1/600. They'll have PE, and if they're up to Joe's other work, they'll blow any palstic 1:600 stuff away. And hopefully, there will be more ships to follow LD Johnson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Pearl Harbor I have a question for some of you familiar with the present day Pearl Harbor. A few weeks ago I saw a photograph of some ship in harbor, and in the background it looked like there was a bridge going to Ford Island. It this correct? I kept forgetting about this topic, or I would have posted earlier. I can't recall where I saw the photo. On the other hand, is there some bridge near or around the Harbor that I could have misinterpreted as going to Ford Island? Rod -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: SHIP SPEEDS On page 59 of "Modern Combat Ships 5: Type 21", there is a photograph of the author, Captain John Lippiett, RN, then CO of HMS "Amazon", water-skiing across the Equator behind his ship. Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Seaview kit Hi Guys I found a small surprise at the local hobby shop today. Polar Lights has reissued for $18.00 the Seaview from Voyage to the bottom of the sea. It's the movie version first issued by Aurora. I don't know scale the sub is because it's fictional. It has 20 parts. All molded in black. Except for the one clear plastic piece for the bow window. Any one remember this TV show? Of it's 4 seasons. It's first was the best. Very James Bond like Spies, intrigue. Also good character study like when the sub ran into a minefield and got sunk. Or when another sub got sunk two men were a drift in the sea on a raft. After that the other 3 seasons had aliens, sea monsters, a mermaid, and space ships. Thought you ought to know about this old classic. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Jeremiah O. Coughlin" Subject: Re: ships speed >> I had the opportunity one time to tour the reactor spaces and the bilges while aboard the Enterprise. I recall standing next to one of the propeller shafts that was rotating at at maybe 40 or 50 RPM's. My buddy, one of the MM's that worked in the Engineering spaces, said that this section, which was about 75-80' long and maybe 3' in diameter, would twist about 10 degrees when under full torgue. << Propeller Shafts are hollow and filled with tallow to ease the torque, otherwise some hot throttle man could twist the screw off the shaft. >> It's interesting how rated speeds vs. real world speeds changed over time. Before WW2, the trial speed quoted was with polished hull bottoms, light load, and dead calm seas, reaching speeds never again to be obtained. It impressed the taxpayers who payed for the ships, though. When I was a kid reading about "31 knot" Burke, I thought it was meant as faint praise, since he was commanding DDs rated at 36. Today, the rated speed is usually much more realistic, << Also the "lil' Beaver Sqd. had been out a long time, the boiler furnace chrome ore overheated and ran, hadn't been rebuilt in over a year. To do 31 Kts. in that condition was outstanding. Old snipes know this stuff. Long ago, far away. jeremiah.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: GOLD MEDAL CANADIAN FRIENDS, CONGRATS!!! YOUR SKATERS CERTAINLY DESERVED THE GOLD. DAVID IN DIXIE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume