Subject: SMML VOL 1555 Date: Tue, 26 Feb 2002 00:41:39 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Airbrushing acrylics 2: Re: Chinese Companies 3: Re: Chinese Companies 4: Reserve fleets 5: Re: CW's "New Jersey" Warship pictorial 6: airbrushes revisited 7: Re: primers 8: Chinese Companies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Ralph Nardone" Subject: Airbrushing acrylics Hello, all....... John Fail asked: >> leads me to want to start using acrylics. << Not a bad move--I have been using them since I was in college in 1982, so I have tried most of them. >> I have never used acrylic paints and know nothing about them but the obvious incentive to use them is the easy clean up of the airbrush and bottles/cups. << It is much easier than that, although some spare bottles wouldn't be a bad investment. Use empty 35mm film canisters to mix your paint--when you are done you can dispose of them. I would imagine if you go to a photo shop, they would have some there for the asking if you don't own (or know anyone who owns) a 35mm camers. Since you own an Aztek 470, get the acrylic nozzles (the black one and the white one) as well...... >> Do acrylics require a primer to be applied to the plastic or resin surface before applying a acrylic color coat such as white or black? << I only prime a model if I've done a lot of heavy seam or conversion work, then I'll use a flat white or flat gray as the primer. Flat white is also a good color to use if the final color scheme will have any bright colors like white (duh!), red, or yellow. These always look better when applied over a white base. Oh, and spray can primer is perfectly acceptable--I use Plasti-cote's sandable primer on models with no ill effects..... >> Do acrylics adhere to the surface as well as enamel? If I put on a white hull surface using acrylics and then tape over it to add a waterline or a underwater hull color will the tape pull off or mess up the white paint when I remove the tape? I have used the blue plastic tape available from Micro-Mark for many years with great results when using enamels. << Make sure the surface is clean--I wipe my models down with isopropyl alcohol before I paint. The acrylics do stick better to a primed surface, but the newer acrylics are pretty tenacious on bare plastic. Also, you may want to take a trip to the office supply store to find some Post-it correction and cover-up tape--it is a white tape with the same adhesive as on a Post-it note. If you use tape, use drafting tape and stick it to your arm before you stick it on the model to remove a lot of the tack of the adhesive. >> Since it appears that all acrylics are flat, how does one get at least a semi-gloss surface after applying the color coat. A U.S. Coast Guard Cutter would look weird in flat white. << There are several varieties of clear oversprays that you may use. I know PollyScale makes flat, gloss, and semi-gloss clear coats.....Future Floor finish is also good--thin it 50/50 with isopropyl and spray it at about 12 psi. One coat gives a nice eggshell finish, two or more makes the surface glossier. >> I ordered some Model Shipways acrylic paints from Model Expo to experiment with but they seem awfully thick. To what consistency should I thin this paint? Will thinning affect the color when diluted? Are there acrylic paints that are ready-to-go in an airbrush as supplied with no thinning required? << From the very, very limited information that is included with the 470 airbrush it is suggested that it be thinned to the consistency of milk which seems to me to be a bit thin but my inexperience may be showing here. << The watchword is "the consistency of milk"--I go by whole milk, not 2% or skim. Start at 70% paint and 30% thinner and go from there. Some paints, like the Testor Acryls, need no thinning, others, like the old Polly-S and apparently the Model Shipways need more thinner. If you mix in a glass jar, add paint, then thinner. Swirl the paint in the jar and watch it run down the side. When it turns translucent as it runs down the side of the jar, you have it about right. Test spray--if the paint seems to spatter, add some thinner. >> Which manufacturer seems to be the best for Acrylics; Tamiya, Model Masters, Model Shipways? << Personally, I like PollyScale and Floquil acrylics, but have been trying out the Testor Acryls for about a year now, and like them, too. I never have been able to spray Tamiya's paints to my satisfaction since they changed the formula in the late '80's. Gunze makes some nice paint, too, but it is expensive and I find it doesn't cover well, even on white. As far as thinner goes, I use distilled water for the PollyScale and Floquil acrylics. The Acryls I have used needed no thinning, but windshield washer fluid should work well. Some folks swear by isopropyl alcohol with the Gunze and Tamiya paints.....others swear at it. I haven't had problems using isopropyl with the Gunze paints. >> I am still waiting for my March issue of Fine Scale Modeler to show up which might answer many of my questions. << It will definitely help......hope this does too! Ralph -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Chinese Companies D. P., Get over it! Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Re: Chinese Companies Just weighing in on the thread about the Chinese companies, including Trumpeter... Firstly, let's stop blaming Clinton for everything from the common cold to the death of the dinosaurs. It was a Republican- Nixon,as I recall- who opened China to US diplomatic relations and subsequent economic ties. Thirty years later, we have a company that, according to Mr. Mike Bass, has the capacity and money to make whatever kit is wanted by anyone, provided they think it is marketable and they have a CAD plan of it. Is that really a bad thing? Also, if we are to take Mr. Bass at his word, Trumpeter has realized that just pirating doesn't work, and their 'original' tooling has apparently been getting better. Still, I understand Steve's concern. Someone may take one of his kits (or someone else's kit) and make an unauthorized copy. But, that's the fault of the person who sends it to Trumpeter- not Trumpeter's. If we're willing to use some ethics on our side, this can work for all of us. Hope this helps both sides, Mike Bartel IHP http://ihphobby.tripod.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Justin D Richard" Subject: Reserve fleets After a recent post on bad ship models, I got thinking. I have a reserve fleet of my own, mainly ships I did many moons ago that are just plain bad. I keep them around for parts and paint testing, and other "duties." I am curious if I am the only one or do others have a mothballed collection too? Justin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: IAAFru2@aol.com Subject: Re: CW's "New Jersey" Warship pictorial This book is first rate. I Highly recommend it. Thanks Steve another great Pictorial, Well done. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: david_l._miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: airbrushes revisited John, Just a few comments to some of your questions. I do not like acrylics, and much prefer Floquil, and Testors model Master paints. I airbrush Floquil w/o thinning. I thin Testors (1 part thinner to 3 parts flat paint, or 2 parts thinner to 3 parts gloss paint, as per directions on Testor's airbrush thinner.) and have great results. I bought a case (6 dozen) of small (1/4 in diameter, 3 inches long) test tubes from a sceintific supply company and mix my paints in these. I usually mix up six or seven colors for a given model prject. I have just recently used the Model Shipways acrylics. I used a regular brush and the paint went on very well. I thinned it allot, and tested it in the airbrush. Again it worked very well, and I did not encounter the usual clogging problems. I actually did not measure when I did this, I just kept thinning 'til it looked and shot right. Next time, I will have to make notes. Of course, I've never liked the suggestion to thin it til it is "as thick as milk". My daughters drink skim, my wife drinks 2%, and I like whole milk--big differences in viscosity!! :>) When I use acrylics, I still prime with Floquil primer. Regards, Dave Miller Macomb, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: primers I have never needed to prime a clean surface on which I sprayed acrylics. Light colors - especially yellow - however, do benefit form a white undercoat. This also will brighten other colors if desired. I do use Krylon sandable primer, but only if I need to get a smooth surface that is totally devoid of detail, such as filling the grain in wood parts. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Kelvin Mok" Subject: Chinese Companies >> Just what is your problem with Chinese Steve???? Some time ago you (along with few others) have been very vocal in calling for a ban on their "Arizona" insisting that it was an outright copy of Revel's kit and so a breach of copyrights. In your more recent posts you have accused Chinese not of stealing US technology only to add in parentheses that Clinton Actually did have give it to them. So what was it exactly -theft or trade??? In another post you (ironically) state that: "I for one completly trust Communist Chinese, especially with my aircraft!". Let me remind you (in case you have forgotten) that Communist Chinese Ambassy personell in former Jugoslavia have no particular reason to trust US Air Forces and Iranian Airlines pilots have every right to distrust US Navy. Let him who is without a sin cast the first stone.... << Thanks D P for putting into words what I had wanted to say for a long time. What Trumpeter did in their early days wasn’t very kosher business practice but you PC people always had the option not to do business with them. I find it highly objectionable that people (like Steve) would condemn all Chinese because he wanted to defend Yankee ingenuity. If the original owners of the designs didn’t object it is ingenuous that someone who has no monetary stake in the product should be so vitriolic. As a business decision Trumpeter obviously did something right. They saved on the cost of designing an original product and instead made a copy for immediate production to get a good feel of the production and distribution mechanics while learning and earning something in the process that will keep them in the game. This path had been taken by countless businesses in all countries (remember Hawk-Aurora in the early days?) all the time. Once beyond that phase the real players move on to produce original designs and superior products and now you (Steve) are praising the very people you once condemned. Ease up. This is a hobby and the products are essentially toys. If you don’t like something just avoid it and don’t make it into a morality play. Since D P brought up the issue on the bombing of the Chinese Embassy in Yugoslavia I’ll chime in with my take on the Chinese side of the incident. That the bombing damaged the embassy building, killed three staffers and injured more would not have been an issue had America immediately admitted that it was an operational mistake, and miracles of miracles maybe even made an apology. Such accidents do happen and the ordinary Chinese would have easily overlooked property damage and the loss of a few lives. What got the Chinese people (not the government who was careful enough not to get trapped into a diplomatic quarrel) unified in anger was the US insistence that that Embassy was a centre feeding intelligence to the enemy among other equally unacceptable excuses. The monetary compensation the US eventually paid can never erase the perception that the US treats China as an unequal. The result is that whatever residual sympathy that the ordinary Chinese may have for American initiatives for democracy, human rights, freedom, etc. has been bombed out for good. Yes, business between the two countries will grow by leaps and bounds but there will never be that readiness to take up American ways again. Kelvin Mok OK People - lets settle down here and get back to modelling posts. Lets not turn this somewhat emotive issue into an "US Vs China" debate. Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume