Subject: SMML VOL 1559 Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2002 01:18:08 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: paint chip 2: Re: USN Slang 1941, P - R 3: Atten: Mike Leonard 4: Back in time on a ship 5: Re: USN Slang 1941, P - R 6: Re: Airfix Bismark 7: Re: Arizona 8: LA Class Sub 9: HMS VICTORY RIGGING AND CHINESE COMPANIES 10: Re: Copyright 11: Hypothetical/Time Travel 12: the ISW Navajo at SanAntonio's Model Fiesta 13: Re: Airfix Bismarck 14: Re: wish list ships 15: Re: In search of 16: Re: Speculative Thread 17: Depth Charges etc 18: ship time machine 19: Re: Chinese models 20: Re: HMS Victory -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: paint chip When I was looking up the Japanese/american model shop Hobbylink they have pic's of the new Prinz eugan (excuse the spelling if wrong) & its painted in the Bismarck grey/white & black stripes with you guessed it that copper top...so should we aussies call this pattern the "bluey" pattern....well anyhow if you get a chance have a look or if you get the kit see what colour they call it. cant wait to get the kit when it becomes available in OZ Andrew -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Kathy/Pirie Sublett" Subject: Re: USN Slang 1941, P - R In the spirit of the fine glossary that John Snyder has been doling out to us lately, I just picked up a used book called "Naval Phraseology" published by USNI Press, 1944 and 1953. Mine is the 1968 printing. It has naval terms, ship parts, ranks, etc., etc. in six languages: English, French, Spanish, Italian, German, and Portuguese! Mine cost a thundering USD $5 in "fair" condition. A refreshing break when my eyes start to cross working on these Russian armored cruisers. Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Redtiger411@aol.com Subject: Atten: Mike Leonard Mike, I have a copy of the Admiral Hipper -1/400 Heller kit. I still need them, but would be happy to scan and send them to you(?) Joe Sims -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Back in time on a ship You guys must be nuts! Who would want to go back in time to live the horrors of being blown out of the water (ending up at both the bow and stern--and everywhere between). And I surely wouldn't want to become a floater at Jutland. No way, man. I want to go back to polynesia in say, 1835. I'd be riding with the crew of a seagoing canoe, learning celestial navigation and the lore of "reading" the sea by her smell and the feel of the swells. We'd make landfall on some island where it's warm and sunny. Ahhh... Victor Baca It's damn cold out there on Semiahmoo today! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: USN Slang 1941, P - R John you left out a very important slang that only the prevlidge few have heard and the word is "pinging". Pinging is to make fun of another crew member or being sarcasticly funny about another crewmam - however the word is only used in the submarine force. Mike Donegan Navydaze -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Chuck Messer" Subject: Re: Airfix Bismark Steve, Actually, I'm bashing two Airfix Bismarks together to make Schlachtshiff H. However, for my money, the best Bismark class kit in 1/600 is the Monogram kit. The hull shape is much closer to the real thing. Funny how Revell Von Deutschland picked the much less accurate Revell kit to market. I wonder if they don't get access to Monogram molds? But, you're right. Sometimes one has to remind one's self that the reason you went into this hobby is to HAVE FUN! :^) Chuck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Arizona Hi SMMLies, There is a drawing of the Arizona in the Stilwell book that shows her as right after the attack before salvage operations began. Then there is also one of how she looks now. You can get drawing of the memorial from the Museum out in Pearl Harbor, I did. Keith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Kerry Jang Subject: HMS VICTORY RIGGING AND CHINESE COMPANIES 1) In regards to HMS Victory, there are several good books describing her rig. The best is C. Nepean Longridge's "Anatomy of Nelson's Ships". Its still available at various places and a classic. 2) In regards to Chinese model companies and their copying ways, for a laugh I forwarded the various responses to some friends in China who are model makers. They had a good laugh and one remarked that some of the licencing agreements/distribution deals are often made at the behest of the American businessmen hoping to capitalize on cheap Chinese labour and their new huge industrial capacity. They admit that many of the business practices of Chinese companies is troublesome, but many of the "deals" and shadow companies that seem to trouble some people are often formed at the suggestion of their American/European/Canadian or whatever business partners because they say its "all perfectly legal"... The fellow who says this works in the marketing department of a multinational drug company and they see this kind of action all along...! He also noted that quality of product is also a function of what the people involved in the joint venture want. If the importer wishes something made cheap to sell at price, then that is what they will ask the company to make. The cheaper the product, the more profit there is. I suppose the culprit in shady dealings and quality of prduct is *not* nationality as has been implied on this list, but good ol' fashioned GREED for all concerned. Now that China is a member of the WTO, I am sure all sides will behave better. Lets face it, I am sure all parties are to blame so unless you can definitively prove that someone is ripping someone off. Until you cna prove it, its wise to keep speculations to oneself as they go frequently beyond healthy nationalism to outright jingoism that leads to silly flame wars on an otherwise cordial list. It looks like I will have the opportunity to be in the PRC this July, so I will report what is new on the local model scene there. Model kits can be bought in stores, shops and on the street and I have found a lot of oddball stuff there over the years, from genuine Matchbox kits to everything Bandai had produced pre-Gundam toys. 'nuff said! Cheers, Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: IAAFru2@aol.com Subject: Re: Copyright >> Do the words "Ship Modeler's Mailing List" ring a bell? << Good point, I for one forgot that in my last few post, sorry everyone I'll stick to Ship Models from now on. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: Hypothetical/Time Travel Hi there: I would pick the following ships to re-materialize on, just to find out what the heck really happened: Bridge of HMAS Sydney on November 19, 1941 as she came up on the Kormoran, what went wrong? Bridge of SS Californian April 15, 1912 watching the Titanic's flares go up, and go and wake up the wireless man! Aboard USS Edsall and USS Pillsbury south of Java, March 1, 1942, what exactly happened? Aboard USS Wahoo for her epic 3rd war patrol to Wewak New Guinea, 'Destroyer gunning Wahoo running'. Cheers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Ed Grune Subject: the ISW Navajo at SanAntonio's Model Fiesta Hi Dave Thank you -- it was mine. It got a bit bunged up on the trip down. I'm going to have to unstep the fore mast, straighten it, re-step it, then re-rig it. I was really excited to see the 1:700 Spruance destroyer that took first in Powered Ships. It was by Mike Johnston of Tyler, TX. He's an aircraft modeler who I have signed up to work on the IPMS-NCT's convention project on 100 Years of the US Navy's Destroyer. His Spruance was well constructed and very subtlely shaded & weathered. It was well deserving of its award. He's working on a Charles Adams too. I'm sure it will be as nice. Ed Mansfield, TX I found no real bargains at the vendors in SanAntonio this year. But I did pick up a Classic Warships 1:350 scale Benham on the way down. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: Airfix Bismarck Cheers for Steve Richards! There are many ways to enjoy ship modelling and to be a fine ship modeller. I admire the super detailing techniques I've read about, and am learning about them by doing; however, I enjoy just as much my earlier efforts in plastic, resin and balsa. Ted -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: wish list ships Please, please, please to the ship model Santa Claus- HMS Tiger 1916 HMS Invincible 1916 (coming in resin) HMS Agincourt 1916 USS Wyoming 1918 (an odd one I know) Ted -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Lkjohnson214@aol.com Subject: Re: In search of Try CAP Aero 1/1200 aircraft miniatures. Regal Miniatures in Iowa (www.regalminiatures.com) carries their full line of WWII FAA and US aircraft. I just bought several dozen and was very impressed! LD Johnson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Chuck Messer" Subject: Re: Speculative Thread I myself wouldn't mind looking over both the Monitor and the Virginia. That is, as long as I didn't get nabbed as a damnyankee spy. In fact, I'd love to have a look around several of the American Civil War ironclads. They were damn ugly, but fascinating ships. Speaking of speculation about historical ships, a Hollywood producer announced a film project titled "Dreadnought", a time travel story which ultimately pits an "Antique battleship" against a futuristic stealth ship. No idea if the movie will be any good, even IF it gets made. Hollywood's record lately hasn't been that stellar. I did wonder how such a confrontation would end up, though. After all, if it's THE H.M.S. Dreadnought, then the stealth technology would be utterly useless. No Radar. In a related subject, Science Fiction author Harry Harrison is writing a series of alternate history novels, which speculate how history might have changed if Prince Albert died a week or two earlier and the Trent Affair was allowed to get out of hand, leading to war between the USA and Britain. Apparently, it was Albert's cooler head that prevailed after a belligerent USN captain siezed the steamer Trent carrying two confederate delegates to the court of St. James. He calmed the hawks in London, and prevented a disasterous war. So, what if Albert died too soon.... Long story short: There is a battle between the U.S.S. Monitor and H.M.S. Warrior. Since Warrior is at anchor when the Monitor comes chugging in, the bigger ship is defeated. I doubt Warrior could have been beaten if the "cheese box on a raft" had to fight in the open ocean. She probably would have been swamped by the waves before things really got violent. Chuck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Raymond Guy" Subject: Depth Charges etc G'Day Gentlemen. Can anyone point me in the direction of some resin (or any other material) 1/72 scale depth charges for the Flower Class Corvette.The ones supplied with the kit are awful .I have the throwers complete with charges in resin and the detail on these is exceptional and shows up the inadequacy of the plastic drums that came with the kit. Hypothetical time machine ship visits ,how about either the Valiant or Warspite at Matapan or for that matter the Barham. Ships in mothball\breakers yard, Nelson, Hood, Ajax, Norfolk and the Novo kits Shiney Penny,and Exeter all suffering from extra-terrestial cat impact without much hope of being resurrected. The upperworks and masts are all mangled wrecks. Had to buy complete kits to repair Belfast and Warspite. Ships on the stocks Tamiya POW and KGV Airfix Belfast all with John's PE parts. "In defence of Bismark" well said Steve you a man after my own heart. I don't have Naval Historians visiting me every day of the week so 100% accuracy is not my forte nor ever will be. I enjoy the hobby even if I do end up with PE parts in the washing machine and props chewed by a German Shepherd who by the way has a taste for Naval Historians and critics of all ilks. Carry -on Modelling !! Regards to all. Ray I see no ships, only hardships. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Doug Marrel" Subject: ship time machine 1. Which way was the ship wheel turned on the Titanic? 2. What color WAS the top of the Bismarcks turrrets? 3. What happened to the crew of the Mary Celeste? 4. The Australian cruiser (Sydney?) sunk with all hands in WWII by the commerce raider (can't remember the name now) to see what happened. I know, more than 1 but in desire order. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Chinese models >> I dont have experience with Chinese ship models but do have knowledge of their woodworking equipment....IT STINKS. It is inaccurate and very poorly cast. In a trade or hobby such as woodworking where accuracy is not critical (one does not have to work too tolerances of even hundreths of an inch), Chinese woodworking equipment does not "cut it". Using this equipment is an effort in futility. It is JUNK! << Bob, The Chinese have noticed our objections (well the US Commerce Dept. anyway) and they are making an honest attempt, IMO, to stop the outright copying of programs, items and parts - across the commercial spectrum. I won't name names here, but there are many resin kits on the market with parts in them that are identical to Tamiya and Skywave parts (40mm, OS2U, etc.), but the resin manufacturers in the US and/or Europe would never stoop to copying plastic parts to put in resin kits, would they? I know my parts are all original, but I do upgrades so the kit parts are worthless to Nautilus. The recent airplane efforts of Trumpeter are to be commended. They have taken a serious step to produce top quality original plastic kits. Their stated goal is to become the number one kit company in the US Market, something the Japanese kit manufacturers have no intention of as we are a side market for them. There is no way anybody can accuse them of copying any existing kit for their last 4 major kit families (A-10, MiG-21PF, MiG-19, MiG-21 F-13) each of which had at least two variants, some as many as five. Go to the local hobby shop and look at one (if they'll let you - I will) and you will be suprised at what you see. The A-10 and Tamiya Zero are the same scale, same price - IMO, the A-10 is much more for your money. The Zero is nice, but Tamiya has a way of overinflating their prices in America. The US retail is usually 45% above the direct dollar conversion of the Yen price. I can order kits from Japan, and with the shipping the price is lower than my wholesale cost. The new Tamiya F-4E is $162.95 - or 12000Y which is just about $95 in Japan depending on the day you check the exchange rate. The latest (MiG-21 F-13) is by far the best - and it uses almost no parts in common with the earlier kit, something the "Big Guys" would do to save a fe wdollars here or there. Trumpeter is the only company out there consistantly putting out new kits at an affordable price.Every kit sees an improvement in quality as they learn how to cut the molds for better detail. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "william k code" Subject: Re: HMS Victory As someone who has been building this kit on and off for a few years now I can relate to how daunting her rigging is.. There are two really wonderful books on Victory that will be a great help in building her ..the 100-gun ship Victory by John McKay, and The Anatomy of Nelsons Ships by C Nepean Longridge .. I am almost done working her main deck and will be fitting the lower mast and bowspit, rigging her cannons with there complete gun tackle was quite a chore.. good luck, Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Shaya Novak" Subject: LA Class Sub I would like pictures of your ships to put on our website. In need jpeg of a DML LA Class Sub Thanks. Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies The Store for The Model Ship Builder www.modelshipbuilding.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume