Subject: SMML VOL 1564 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2002 13:02:21 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Hypothetical time travel 2: Re: Pinging 3: Re: Enjoying our hobby 4: Re: USN Slang 1941 - Last Installment 5: Re: Pinging 6: Trumpeteer carriers 7: Badger Model-Flex acrylic paints 8: Military Museums In Seattle 9: Fun vs. accuracy 10: Re: Wood decks 11: Lost glasses 12: Enjoying our hobby 13: Soviet Carrier Varyag arrives in China 14: Re: Battlecruisers or not? 15: German 5.1 DP 16: Ace Resin Query -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: March Issue of Escort -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New SeaPhoto Sets Added 2: Re: MSJ Index -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Hypothetical time travel Sorry I'm a little late on this topic. I agree with one gentlemen's recent comments that you guys must be nuts to want to be witness to some of the horrors of warfare at sea. Perhaps the reason some people want to go back to certain ships is because history has now shown that these ships came out of the battles unscathed. But back then, you didn't know if you'd be torpedoed or hit by a kamikaze. I can't imagine a worse way to go through the days, not knowing if you'd be dead by tomorrow. But honestly, if I could go back to see "paint chips and gun details", I definitely would NOT want to be on the Arizona prior to 12/7/41, because I would know that most of the crew I'd see would soon be dead. Nor would I want to go back onboard the Hood before the entanglement with Bismarck. Nor would I want to be on a merchant ship crossing the Atlantic in a convoy, being stalked by the famous Wolfpacks. Not only for the fear of being killed, but also for the aftermath of having to swim through oily water strewn with wreckage and bodies. Call me what you will, but there are some things I can live without seeing. Aside from being on that canoe on some Polynesian island, I'm happy just being on a cruise ship, sipping a Rusty Nail, and taking in the warm South Atlantic sun and Bermuda breeze! Rod -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Pinging >> Actually a "pingjockey" was/is a sonarman on the boats. << Whereas--at least in the 1960s Navy--Sonarmen and Radarmen in the surface fleet were collectively lumped together as "Scope Dopes." Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "James M. Pasquill, II" Subject: Re: Enjoying our hobby Please don't take offense as this is not intended as a salvo in a flame war, but just an additional thought on an all too often debated subject. >> In regards to the comments by Axel Wolters, I agree with him whole heartedly. << I think you'll find that so does every one else on the list. It's your hobby. You should enjoy it any way that suits you. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say anything otherwise on this list since its inception or on any other modeling list on which this same subject comes up every few months. What is puzzling is why this topic comes up all the time? >> As a newcomer to this group, I have to admit that I am amused by the "debate" over modeling--isn't the bottom line, as Mr. Wolters states, having fun?! << I think you've hit the key to my question. You, as a newcomer, aren't as into certain aspects of the hobby that others are. When they start to debate the best material or the "right" paint scheme to make their model as perfect as it can be, you see it as debate or fighting, don't understand what all the hullabaloo is about, and perhaps you are bothered by it. The guys that debate this kind of thing are having "fun" with their hobby in the way that suits them. They are into historical accuracy, and debating paint schemes, and having the proper hull shape. That should not be a threat to the way you enjoy your hobby so you should just ignore it and let the guys that are into this stuff have their discussions without telling them that they seem to have forgotten that this is supposed to be fun. >> Who cares, outside of the model builder, what the finished product looks like, or whether it is "historically accurate"? << I assume you do to some extent or why would you subscribe to this list? ;^) >> I started building model WW II warships when I was 6 because my father had served in the navy, and because it was fun. I ended up building probably every Revell, Monogram, and other model out there, all for the purpose of playing with them in our basement, as I recreated battles and harbors out of my fervent imagination. I didn't care then whether they were historically accurate; I just wanted to bomb them (lima beans make great bombs!), and move them around my basement floor. << To each his own. You are not alone on this list but neither are the guys who want their ships to create historically accurate models. This same kind of thing happened last month when the thread began of people's opinions of bad or inaccurate kits that they had built as youth. Nobody that had an opinion of a kit said they didn't enjoy trying to build it or didn't learn anything from trying to build it. Still after a few days a bunch of folks got all huffy about the panning that was given to some kits because these folks had so much fun building them as kids. The fact that some had fun building them doesn't make them good kits in the context of the discussion that was underway. Still people were slighted because some with more knowledge pointed out flaws in their fondly remembered kits. It was just so exasperating that it took the fun out of what started out as a fun topic. Some folks just couldn't handle it when somebody said something slightly negative and had to jump in and remind everyone that they are supposed to be having fun even when everyone was having fun by remembering the lousy kits they had built. :) Modelers that strive for another level of skill or accuracy don't need to be told that being passionate and heatedly discussing opinions is not your idea of fun, and I'm sure that they would never begrudge the fun that others might get from just putting the kit together as it comes from the box. Jim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USN Slang 1941 - Last Installment >> I didn't see TINS in this last installment. Maybe that was from "our" navy... :-) << It wasn't in the book, Al--it's up to you now.... Cheers, John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: JOHN CURRIE Subject: Re: Pinging Hi All, Pinging in the RN is Transitting on Sonar, if you have Pinged it, you have found the Sub or if you have been Pinged that means you on the Sub have been found. Regards John ASW (Awfully Slow Warfare) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Trumpeteer carriers Hi Can any one tell me what carriers are coming out from Trumpter? Also when does Squadron new book on the Independence class light carriers come out? Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Doug Bauer" Subject: Badger Model-Flex acrylic paints Has anyone used the Badger Model-Flex acrylic marine paints on their models, and with what results? I want to use this fast-drying paint, but have little experience with it. I'm wondering, if like with Tamiya acrylics, there's a long curing period before it's safe to apply a sealing agent like Future - Tamiya takes forever to cure and applying a sealing coat before it's truly dry can have disastrous results. Can someone pass on some suggestions? TIA Doug Bauer Poway, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Military Museums In Seattle To Robert Lockie: Bring the raincoat and check out the Coast Guard Museum Northwest at the entrance to the USCG Support Center on Alaskan Way. It's just south of Royal Brougham Street. This museum is devoted to many fine ship models from the Revenue Marine era to the modern Coast Guard and definitely has a military flair. They have some really nice solid-wood hull plating models and an impressively huge 1/48 scale Gibbs & Cox model of a WWII Wind Class icebreaker. This model alone is worth the trip. The museum also sells ship's plans (at very reasonable prices), many showing naval units that were manned by the USCG in WWII. You'll find the curator to be very knowledgable on naval history because he lived a big chunk of it and the entire staff is a great bunch of retired Coasties. Enjoy the Seattle coffee and I hope your trip is a good one. Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "john fiebke" Subject: Fun vs. accuracy In regards to building for fun or accuracy, I'm finding it easier these days to do both. Easy access to info, the best of which occurs here, makes it often just as easy to build an accurate model as it is to slap one together out of the box. I don't know how many times I've had a simple question and a simple scan through the SMML archives or the snyder & short ship camouflage discussion board (to name but a few) answers it. I'm starting to feel like I have no excuse but to paint a ship the right colors or put her in the correct time-frame..but why shouldn't I if the answer is so close at hand? Thank you all for your help and knowledge. john.f -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Jim Johnson" Subject: Re: Wood decks I will plead with the decal manufactures one more time. As you can see from the pictures of the wood decks recently referenced on the list, painting wood decks is a pain. If you can make the paint look like wood, which is possible, how can you make the black calking between the planks? Answer: decals. The recent Banner/Trumpeter 1/350 Arizona is a case in point. Not only is the painting of the deck to represent a calked wooden deck, there is the problem of the deck being in sections. Now you have to blend the sections together and paint them to look realistic. Wouldn't it be nice to have a decal sheet to put over the planked sections of the deck? You could blend the sections of the deck together without worrying about losing the engraved detail. At the very least, if the black calking lines were reproduced on decal sheets, you could blend the deck sections together, paint the deck your choice of color, then apply the calking decal for a super deck. Sheets could be made for a generic deck, matching the length and width of the standard planking that could be cut to size for any given ship. I, for one, would buy a lot of this type of thing. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Lost glasses To Andrew Jones Re lost glasses Did you try looking for your lost glasses where you drained them? Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Shipguy59@aol.com Subject: Enjoying our hobby Bravo Mr. Rohloff...It's easy to get caught up in the feeling that everything's gotta be perfect and accurate etc. For me at least the hobby becomes a stress not a hobby. I Build 'em for fun.... Mark McKellar Boston -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: doug brown Subject: Soviet Carrier Varyag arrives in China For SMML folks who are following the story of former Soviet carriers, here's the latest on the Varyag. Background: The Varyag was purchased in 1998 from Ukraine for $20M by Chong Lot, a Hong Kong-based company purportedly to be used as a floating entertainment complex in Macao. (Portuguese authorities in Macao denied those plans at the time in 1998.) In mid-2000 a crew was hired to tow the ship to China, but Turkey blocked passage through the Dardenelles. After long negotiation, in November 2001 the ship left the Black Sea and was towed through the Dardenelles enroute to China. Here's the latest news: http://www.wikipedia.com/wiki/Soviet_aircraft_carrier_Varyag "The aircraft carrier sailed into Chinese waters on February 20 2002, and is being towed to Dalian Shipyard in Northeastern China." BTW, this article has good background on the whole deal. http://www.afpc.org/crm/crm431.htm February 24 "The mystery of a Soviet-built aircraft carrier bought by a Macau company to be a 'floating casino' took a new twist when it was revealed that its destination was Dalian, the site of one of the mainland's key naval shipyards, the South China Morning Post reports. The 60,000-ton Varyag, was released following a two-year diplomatic tussle after Beijing offered Turkey a US$ 361 million passage fee - despite denials from Beijing it was behind the Varyag purchase from Ukraine. A Turkish source said: "It was quite clear that the Chinese Government was very determined to see that the Varyag reached Chinese waters - there was involvement at the very highest levels." Foreign diplomatic and military observers believe Beijing is footing the bill because it is planning to use the Varyag as a template for future PLA navy carrier designs. Senior naval officers have made no secret of their ambitions to project China's burgeoning military power with the use of large aircraft carriers." This will be interesting to see if the Varyag ends up under study by the PLAN --- or ends up docked in "Varyag World", much like the Minsk became "Minsk World" in Shenzhen. (See http://www.shenzhenwindow.net/guides/attract_minsk.htm and http://198.190.228.6/minsk/minsk.html for pictures of Minsk.) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Battlecruisers or not? From: "D.Przezdziecki" Allan Plumb (me) writes: >>> -- Courageous/Glorious (but Furious is ugly) (And don't tell me they weren't battlecruisers.) << >> Apparently John Roberts stick rigidly to the definition that every warship which sacrifies armour protection for speed and armament is a battlecruiser. <<< Ooh, an argument! (Or is it merely contradiction? :-) Strawman argument detected. The above has never been a definition of "battlecruiser", so it's easy to bash. Try adding "battleship" as an adjective in front of armament, and we'll be closer. I think most would agree that 15"/42 guns is battleship armament, and 6" is not. The fun part is that everybody has their own definition of "battlecruiser" and argues it. Now, how about when I claim that "late WWII US battleship/cruiser" == "high-speed antiaircraft escort"? I haven't had this much fun since the last time this came up. But back to SMML: too bad the Repulse's are so hard to find (I have one, built). I always wanted to take one of those and attempt to bash it into a Courageous. However, since my unbun ilt pile is so large, it would be hard to justify. Allan Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "fredliedel" Subject: German 5.1 DP Does anybody have Line Drawings or photos of the German 5.1 DP twin mount that was to be fitted to their late WW2 destroyers. Or know where I could get them from. Regards Fred Liedel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "William W, Yaun, Jr." Subject: Ace Resin Query John Kutina - In response to your request for Ace Resin web site. I have a Ace Resign kit. They do not list a web site but, do have an e-mail address: Mnitka@aol.com. They are located @ 7481 E, 30th St. Tucson, AZ 95710-6338 Phone # 520-886-8051 fax 520-298-2999. Yes the molds hold up for multiple castings. Warren -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: March Issue of Escort The March Issue of Escort, website of the IPMS(UK) Small Warships SIG (www.brown.abelgratis.co.uk) posted earlier this evening. Regards Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: New SeaPhoto Sets Added I have added photo sets for the following subjects to the online catalog USS New Jersey BB-62 Drydock shots before her activation in the 80's. Shots of her in Bremerton that show her in her Vietnam era configuration USS Missouri BB-63 Shots of her in Bremrton showing her in Korean War configuration Drydock shots Many of the Bremerton shots for both ships were taken from the superstructures of adjacent ships, so you get a nice elevated viewpoint. I have also added views of a Triparte Minesweeper, Two US SSN's, an overhead series of a T-AGS, a new FFG set, some more YTB coverage, two new sets for the USS Berekely (DDG-15), a new set for the USS Jouett (CG-29), and shots. of the USS ST. Paul being scrapped. In our large print program, I have quite a few shots of Soveremmnny class destroyers to help you with the building of that new kit. These are 8 X 10/12 prints from slides. All this and much,much more can be found in the SeaPhoto online catalog. The direct link to the catalog page is: http://wmunderway.8m.com/seaphoto/catalog/index.html Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Re: MSJ Index >> Victor, you might want to consider...printing and index for the previous year in the first issue of each year - we are always trying to find articles we KNOW we have read and an index saves a lot of wear and tear on fingers tired from building models. By the way, MSJ is one of the best modeling related magazines I have ever come across. << Hi Denis: Thank you for your kind comments and your input as well. I will be printing a full index of all articles as well as all the "Department" style pieces printed since the magazine's first Issue Zero. The index will run in the 2nd Anniversary issue of Model Ship Journal (which goes to press on 31 May). This will become a fixture in every following Summer anniversary issue. The first run will be a complete index, with subsequent years showing articles printed the previous year. If anyone else has ideas for improvement or would like to see specific articles, reviews or plan/photo features, please let me know. We are always looking for good photographs of excellent models, so also let me know if you have any leads in this regard. Thanks for your comments and best regards, Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume