Subject: SMML VOL 1570 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2002 12:00:18 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: HMS Victory rigging 2: Re: Russian Deck Red 3: Ark Royal III Conversion 4: Re: Steamboat question 5: Cascade Models 6: Re: Scale figures 7: Looking for Indian Type 16, Type 16A and Pakistan Type 21 Frigates Photos 8: Re: Steamboat Question 9: RUSSIAN DECK RED 10: Gloss coats 11: Treasure Ships of Zheng Ho 12: Russian Deck Red 13: Trumpeter Arizona/model-flex paint 14: Re: deck decals 15: Correct Soviet Warship Gray 16: IJN Boot topping? 17: mag review 18: Wooden Decks/Steel Hulls 19: Re: Chinese companies and new stories 20: Re: Ace Plastics -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: KITS FOR SALE 2: NEW 1/700 RESIN ARRIVALS 3: New Reviews for March 2002 ModelWarships.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "David Griffith" Subject: Re: HMS Victory rigging Dear Art, Just got back from holidays and am catching up on reading the postings, so if you have received useful advice in the meantime then please forgive me. On a model of this scale proper rigging will make or break it. IMHO there is only one way to do it, and that is as closely as possible to the way it was originally done. I can suggest some very useful references. "Masting and Rigging of English Ships of War, 1625-1850", by James Lees, published by Conway. Says it all, doesn't it? This guy is, I believe, the curator of the model ships at the National Maritime Museum. It describes the run of just about every rope on a British warship, almost down to the Bo'suns shoelaces. It ain't cheap, it presumes a fair degree of prior knowledge and a bedtime read it is not! However, it must be the definitve work. "Anatomy of Nelson's Ships" by Nepean-Longridge. A well known and respected book about building a large scale model of the Victory. "Plank on Frame Models" Volume 2, by Harold A Underhill. A very good "how do do it" guide by a feller who must have died of short sight and terminal pernicertiness. probably out of print for many years. In general terms, don't try to use sewing cotton to do it, get proper rigging thread from the Italian companies that specialise in this sort of thing, Amati, Corel, Panart, Mantua. Don't use Billings, nasty, hairy stuff! Try fly-tying thread for whipping and binding where ropes are seized around blocks and deadeyes, and you can get nifty little bobbin holders that make it very easy to use. I don't know what Heller provide in the way of blocks for the rigging, but there would be literally hundreds, if not thousands, on the original ship. They are actually quite easy to mass produce using box wood strip. I can show you how, if you like. It is a few years since I finished my HMS Unicorn, and it took about a year to rig it. Oh, what fun I had! Please contact me off line if you think I can be of any help. Regards, David Griffith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Robert Healy" Subject: Re: Russian Deck Red To All, Thank you for the pointers. I will do the Humbrol, with the Humbrol gloss. Also, as I was searching for the hmbrol I noticed that squadron was taking pre-orders for the 1:700 Prinz Eugen. Seems to be the cheapest one out there and no shipping charge (US only?) if you pre-order now. http://www.squadron.com/SearchResults.asp?ScaleList=everything&TypeList=everything&ManuList=everything&Key=prinz+eugen Regards, Bob Healy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Baumbach, Werner" Subject: Ark Royal III Conversion Hello all, Is a conversion of Ark Royal to an Illustrous Class Carrier possible. Background is that I found another Revell kit and basically bought it for the Zulu escort. I already have an Ark in the docks (now that I have seen the results of the WEM set, I have started saving for that) and would like to do something else with the other kit. Any ideas for an interesting project. I am open for anything. Happy Modelling Werner -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Steamboat question If there is any original roof material extant, one can always do paint analysis/color matching. Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models and P.S. Preservation Services -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Peter Webster Subject: Cascade Models I had not heard of 'Cascade' models - anyone have an 'address'? Thanks Peter W -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: Scale figures >> Therefore would it not stand to reason that not all sailors on a ship would be clones? In other words, it is only natural that some figures might be larger/smaller than others, a variety is much more realistic and none of us would want nothing less than perfection, right? << Keith, that's right, but we still don't want any seven footers, especially back in the 40's when even six footers were considered extraordinary tall. Extra tall figures also look odd when standing near a scale rail or door, etc. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Ayala Botto" Subject: Looking for Indian Type 16, Type 16A and Pakistan Type 21 Frigates Photos It's the first time I'm participation in SNML "forum", if I might say this. I am looking for photos of the Indian Type 16, Type 16A frigates and Pakistan Type 21 Frigates. Can anybody help me? thanks Ayala Botto Lisbon, Portugal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Tom Kremer Subject: Re: Steamboat Question >> I'm working on a small passenger steamboat and need help with the roof coloring. I've never seen a color photo of an early 1900s steamer except old colorized photos which are notoriously bad references. The roofing appears to canvas over wood. Anyone know what color the canvas might have been painted? << Jim: I would guess that buff or white would have been the most common. They were by far the most used colors on wooden boats in the early part of the 20th century. Buff doesn't show dirt like white (which would be important on a coal burner) but still reflects enough light so it doesn't get too hot in the sun. Before air conditioning people used to consider things like that! Tom K -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: RUSSIAN DECK RED Try using a black undercoat when painting the red decks and this might just make the color of the red appear just a shade darker which I think is what you are trying to achieve. I have found that painting the under hull area black and then painting the anti-fouling red oxide makes the red oxide appear darker than if applied over gray primer. This should work for the decks too. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Kerry L. Jang" Subject: Gloss coats >> P.S. Very strange, but only Humbrol Gloss coat gives the right tint to Humbrol 100. I tried to use acrylic coat without any success. << Acrylic gloss varnishes tend to be crystal clear. They are either milky (e.g., Microgloss) or clear (e.g., Tamiya Clear). Humbrol gloss varish is a polyurethane, and has a lovely amber tint to it. It is this tint that is likely chaning the colour value of Humbrol 100. Wooden ship builders take advantage of this tint (or try to nullify it) when they put tung oil or whatever on their ships. Even a single light coat of any amber coloured clear coat will affect underlying colour. Kerry L. Jang -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Kerry L. Jang" Subject: Treasure Ships of Zheng Ho SMML's and especially to Kelvin Mok (sorry Kelvin, lost your e-mail): Here's a story that was in today's Vancouver Sun on Zheng Ho, the Chinese explorer who is reputedly to have found North America long before Columbus. The story is not know much outside of Asia. In Chinese school we learned of Zheng Ho like we did of Cook and George Vancouver in public school and there have been several Chinese movies and stories chronicalling his adventures. The post is very timely as Trumpeter is set to release a kit of one of these famous treasure ships. Nobody really knows what these treasure ships looked like, but if the bleow reports are true, we may soon have some real archaeological evidence to go on. Enjoy! Kerry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Russian Deck Red I used a 4:1 mix of Polly Scale Italian Camouflage Brown (505286) tinted with RLM23 Rot (505020) ... it matches the color photo on the cover of the Combat Fleets 98-99 volume and several digital photos I have posted to the SOVREMENNY review page -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "john fiebke" Subject: Trumpeter Arizona/model-flex paint What is the deal with all these postings not believing those of us who have Trumpeter, and not Banner or Mini-Hobby, Arizonas? Our eyes are good enough to fold 1/700 catapults, I think we can read the corner of the box we have. I have a 1/350 kit of the United States Ship Arizona with the words "Trumpeter" in the corner of the box. And there's a trumpet under the name. The box art is of the Arizona at sea. I bought it at Brookhurst Hobbies near Anaheim, CA, about three months ago. They had both the Banner and Trumpeter kits, as well as the Mini-hobby 1/700 kit. I'm NOT going to take pictures of it to prove it. And I used model-flex paint for the anti-fouling red. To the gentlemen who inquired about this paint...it dried "to the touch" rather quickly, but this fooled my impatience to the point where I masked the boot-topping only an hour later (I know, you should wait 48 hours, but I was getting excited as it was starting to look like a ship). Needless to say, some of it pulled off but not a lot. I haven't used an overcoat yet, but so far so good. john.f -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: dlfowler@apple.com Subject: Re: deck decals Hello, Several people have approached me about the subject of making deck decals. While they are possible to do even at 1/700 scale I have not done any because each ship would require a different custom decal and it would require a single decal to cover the entire deck. On the first issue, I could come up with patterns for the major warships (especially the US BBs which still exist as museum ships) but I would have a very difficult time with non-US ships and ships which have been scrapped. Even with the ships which are still around, it would be an incredible amount of work to draw all the planks (or even just their outlines). The second issue would be more of a barrier to the modeler, I think. Anyone who has tried to apply large decals knows what a pain it is. You have to keep it straight, flat, and try to get rid of as many bubbles as possible. The problems with sections lifting or silvering would be huge. I have tried this and it never has worked so I have not pursued it. Best regards, Duane Fowler Dunagain Decals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Way, David L" Subject: Correct Soviet Warship Gray Since we have been discussing the appropriate paint to use for a Russian / Soviet naval vessel's decks, I don't remember reading in previous issues a recommended color for the hull and superstructure. What would be the best gray to use for the hull and superstructure of a modern former Soviet warship? Has anyone done that bit of homework yet? (Maybe we will see that featured on the future Snyder and Short, "modern naval vessel" color chips.......hint, hint). I appreciate readers advice on the red / orange deck colors and will be looking at their suggested paints. Plus, good job WEM, for producing a after market 133mm turret for the new Sovremenny kit! After waiting for some many years, with no large scale high quality kits of a modern Soviet warship ever appearing, the 1/200 Russian destroyer beast of a kit will be a joy to build. Thanks for your assistance. David Way Huntington Beach, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Shipguy59@aol.com Subject: IJN Boot topping? Hi folks, Did the japanese use a black boot on their WWII ships? I'm buildling two 1/700 destroyers Akishimo & Sakura waterline. Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: mag review Got the latest issue of the warship international naval news so I thought I'd well here's part 1: The RAN *RAN hydrographic ships Leewin & melville have now been painted naval gray to help guard the coast due to stretched responsibilities of the combat fleet *Canbera upgrade:the planned FFG upgrade program for the Canbera has been postphoned because of the current world situation, though she will go through a maintenance program after she finishes her duty off the coast of the Solomons * Patrol boats: The RAN's 15 patrol boats are reported to be failing to meet national maritime surveillance requirements due to reliability issues & crew problems such as illness. Last year the fleet failed to meet the coastwatch requiremnt for 1,800 patrol days at sea per year by 112 days *Collins class subs: now reported running 5 years behind schedule * A transportable 12-bunk accomodation module has been deployed for use in RAN frigates, able to bost from 210 (standard configuration) to 222 bunks the accomodation on the 6 FFG's. To be positioned in the ships hanger, when only 1 helo is embarked * new commodao boats: water operatins by army commandoes will soon have a new tool. The new boats COW's (Commando Operational watercraft) fill the void between zodiacs & Rigid inflatable boats. the new boats can be parachuted, carry 10 people & go 200 nautical miles in sea state 5 well that will do for now..comin up soon HMS Ilustrious, naming RAN ships, HMS Caroline, USS Boxer, RAN DDG update, joint venture trials, American DDG future plans, British seaplane cariers of the great war, Royal Navy report, USS Tulare (LKA112), Ships for the NZ & finally news from across the world some excellent pics good photo of the uss South Dakota going thru heavy swells photographed from the forward fire control platform, the USN in colour USS wisconsin, take off F-14, helo's etc HMS furious, Tulare I hope if I remember to bring it on Saturday at the APMA meeting, but it is Melbourne show or if any overseas people intereste I can scan & email any shots you require -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Wooden Decks/Steel Hulls >> If you look close enough, you will notice a round plug at each end of every plank on an operational ship. This is where the plank is bolted to the deck. A round plug covers the bolt head. << The name for those wooden plugs is "Dutchman" (don't know where the term is derived from). >> Please don't measure the splinter shields on your 1/350 scale models however, as you may find that the 1/4 inch plate on the real ship is a little overscale on the model. The fact is that putting overscale details on models is very common. The signal lanyards on almost any ship model smaller that 1/96 scale will always be overscale. Which is more important, to have the item represented, even though overscale or to exclude it because of technical difficulties. I vote for including them, even though they may be out of scale. << Here's another thing to consider: the vast majority of models (and plans sets, for that matter) show wooden deck surfaces on steel ships as nice, neat planks running from bow to stern in solid, unbroken parallel lines. This just isn't so. Anyone visiting one of the preserved US Navy battleships or heavy cruisers will note how every bulkhead, splinter shield, vent, and hatch combing - i.e., anything attached to the steel deck beneath - will interrupt this pattern. These items usually cause the direction of the planking to change by 45 or 90 degrees around the metal object. Therefore, unless one tries to model the hundreds of deck fittings that disrupt the straight flow of the planks, and their direction, the result is best regarded as an approximation of the real thing. In 1/350 scale and smaller (or maybe even 1/192 scale) this is a trivial point, but true nonetheless. Mike Alexandria, VA USA "There's a fine line between 'hobby' and 'mental illness' " - Dave Barry -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Chinese companies and new stories >> Because they were doing this, you stated that they were going to receive all of your research, including your patterns, since, in your words, they would steal it anyways. Yes, you may be correct in that you never gave your pattern to them, but you certainly gave the impression that you were not only willing to give it to them, but also were working in conjunction with them to develop this supposed kit. << Edwin, Where do you get these ideas???? I NEVER gave any impressions. You have drawn an incorrect conclusion! I do not want to lose the sales of my resin kit, but have to face the reality that a plastic kit of the same subject my one day appear. If someone uses my product as a guide, that's OK, because as long as the parts are not an exact copy, its all legal. I dont like it, but there is not much I can do about it. You really need to go back and read the old postings, because you are very wrong in what you are saying. Let me just say, AGAIN!!!, that I like the fact that Trumpeter, or what ever name they wish to go by, is bringing out some exciting subjects. What my postings were about were the business practices I suspected them of using in their marketing, NOT the design of their kits. Please read and think before one speaks!!! Much of what I said has been really twisted around. Lets put an end this stupid debate, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Ace Plastics >> Need some help: does anyone know the e-mail address of Ace Plastics {think it is in Arizona} as I need some resin casting material. Also, if you have used their material do the molds hold up for multiple castings without tearing?>> John, The company you are thinking of is called "Ace Resin" and they have an ad in the back of every Fine Scale Modeler magazine. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: KITS FOR SALE The following are surplus to my requirements and are offered for sale. Actual postage costs will be added to the prices. All the kits are complete, unmade, in their original boxes. 1) Revell Germany 1/300 scale HNlMS "Kortenaer", Standard Class Netherlands Navy frigate. $20.00 2) Arii 1/700 scale USS "Oldendorf" Spruance Class destroyer. Offered complete with Flagship Models etched brass detail set. $20.00 3) Revell "box scale" German Navy "Zerstorer Z1". This is the original Revell Fletcher Class kit re-boxed as a German Navy ship. $10.00 4)Hasegawa Minicraft 1/700 Japanese heavy cruiser "Haguro". Offered complete with Tom's Modelworks etched brass detail set. $20.00 5)Matchbox 1/700 USS "Fletcher". $10.00 6)Albatross 1/700 USS "Gearing". $12.00 Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bill Gruner Subject: NEW 1/700 RESIN ARRIVALS Now in stock the following NEW 1/700 Resin Kits: 1. From Jadar, Poland: Spanish Battleship PELAYO, neat tumblehome old BB, $30.00 2. From Modelkrak, Poland: Japanese Armored Cruiser ASAMA (1899)....30.00 3. From Modelkrak: Japanese Battleship IWATE ....30.00 4. From Modelkrak: Russian Armored Cruiser WARIAG (WARJAG)....30.00 5. From H-P Germany: German WW 1 Tugger Set, 3 different...39.00 Thanks, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Timothy Dike Subject: New Reviews for March 2002 ModelWarships.com Revell Germany's NEW 1/700 USS Wasp LHD Classic Warship's 1/700 USS Wichita CA-45 (resin kit) HP Models 1/700 USS Idaho New Mexico Class BB (resin kit) White Ensign Models NEW 1/350 "Narrow Seas" S-100 late type WW2 E-Boat (resin kit) White Ensign Models NEW 1/350 "Narrow Seas" S-10 early type WW2 E-Boat (resin kit) Naval Works 1/700 USS Porter WW 2 Destroyer (OOP Resin kit) DML / Dragon 1/700 USS Conolly ABL Destroyer (plastic kit) Eduard vs. Gold Medal Models 1/350 IJN Yamato BB PE set Squadron Signal's NEW Flight Deck US Carrier Operations 1940-1945 by Al Adcock Classic Warships Warship Pictorial #15 Kriegsmarine Schnellboote Classic Warships Warship Pictorial #16 USS New Jersey BB-62 The following features were added since the last update: Building the USS Essex in 1/700 scale by Len Roberto Scratch Building the USS North Carolina in 1/96 scale by Ron Horabin part 1 and 2 Building the IJN Yamato in 1/200 scale by Bill Waldorf part 1 These Ships were added to the Gallery last month: 1/350 IJN Akizuki (Blue Water Navy) by Bob LaPadura 1/400 DKM Graf Spee (Heller) by Michael Taylor 1/520 USS Yorktown (Lindberg) by Patrick Cosgrove 1/700 IJN Kirishima (Nichimo) by Fernando Torre 1/700 APA-35 USS Callaway Attack Transport (WSW) by Michael Taylor 1/400 USS Enterprise CVN-65 (Lee) by Digilio Fdez 1/20 30 foot, 15 hp, 2 person DKM Graf Spee by William Terra 1/570 DKM Tirpitz (Monogram) by Fernando Torre 1/700 USS John A. Moore FFG-19 (Dragon Shanghai) by Peter Van Buren 1/540 USS Lexington CVT-16 (Revell) by Patrick Cosgrove 1/24 Flower Class Corvette HMS Bryony by Ron Horabin (new images added) 1/600 HMS Fearless (Airfix) by Peter Van Buren 1/700 Tugboat and sinking ship diorama by Peter Van Buren 1/350 USS Arizona BB-39 (Trumpeter) by Jeff Farr 1/350 USS Fletcher DD-445 (Tamiya) by Peter Van Buren 1/700 USSR Sevastapol a Kresta I class Guided Missile Frigate (KomBring) by Fernando Torre 1/700 LHD-2 USS Essex (Revell Germany) by Peter Van Buren 1/350 IJN Battleship Yamato (Tamiya) by Michael Taylor 1/481 USS Columbus (Revell) by John Galla Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume