Subject: SMML VOL 1571 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2002 00:57:49 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Looking for Indian Type 16, Type 16A and Pakistan Type 21 Frigates 2: Rich Boy's Toys 3: japanese destroyers & the letters on the hull 4: "roofs" on paddle wheelers 5: Modelflex Paints 6: Robbe Valdivia 1/20 scale RC schooner 7: What color for Japanese Subs? 8: Steamboats and bungs 9: 26' navy motor life boats 1/48 scale 10: Re: WSW 700-19; Potemkin, Russian battleship, 1905 11: installment number 2 of excerpts from the magazine 12: Re: Scale figures 13: Re: No Uss Arizona From Trumpeter 14: Re: IJN Boot topping? 15: chinese beat Capt Cook & the Dutch to Australia & also discovered USA 16: Correct Soviet Warship Gray 17: Re: Hypothetical Time Travel 18: Time travel 19: Re: Cheng Ho -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: On-line Indexes -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mike Kear" Subject: Looking for Indian Type 16, Type 16A and Pakistan Type 21 Frigates >> It's the first time I'm participation in SNML "forum", if I might say this. I am looking for photos of the Indian Type 16, Type 16A frigates and Pakistan Type 21 Frigates. << There would be heaps of the Type21 pictures in the RN era, but I too would be interested in pictures of the Type 21s since they went to Pakistan. I'm curious what they've done with them. Ayala, I have lots of pictures of the Type 21 under RN ownership if that is of interest, but nothing since they were sold to Pakistan. Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia www.modelwarship.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Rich Boy's Toys For those who enjoy their hobbies in 1:1 scale, here is a story of an Internet pioneer who bought a surplus 120-foot British patrol boat for his daughter's amusement. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32880-2002Mar3.html Mike -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: japanese destroyers & the letters on the hull I keep wondering Did Japanese destroyers keep that kanji written on the side of their destroyers after Pearl harbour & in combat.. I seem to recall a painting or a picture of a destroyer sunk at Guadancannal (I said seem) that it had the writing still on the side whe it was sunk.. but it would be strange to have that size of writing sitting on the side of a warship especially at night sneaking thru the allied picket lines & you have on your dark coloured hull large white coloured writing.... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Lamar B. Jones" Subject: "roofs" on paddle wheelers Black asphalt tar is the cover on roofs of Mississippi paddle wheelers. Alan Bates book Steamboat Cyclopedium states that "Roofing was tar and felt with sawdust or sand as a wear resisting agent. The material was layed in stips about 18 inches wide. Skylight roof and texas roof were paved the same way." Lamar Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: Modelflex Paints John Fiebke wrote: >> And I used model-flex paint for the anti-fouling red. To the gentlemen who inquired about this paint...it dried "to the touch" rather quickly, but this fooled my impatience to the point where I masked the boot-topping only an hour later (I know, you should wait 48 hours, but I was getting excited as it was starting to look like a ship). Needless to say, some of it pulled off but not a lot. I haven't used an overcoat yet, but so far so good. << John: What kind of masking tape did you use in this case? Common hardware store masking tape has way too an adhesive to use on any model paints regardless of the cure time. If common masking tape must be used it should have some tack taken out by putting it down on glass or other smooth clean surface to remove a bit of adhesive. Also, any masking tape should be removed within a very short time. Leave any masking tape on a surface for several days and most paints will lift. To avoid masking problems I recommend using #218 3m Fine Line auto body masking tape or the Tamiya brand of tape. Both are available in the better hobby shops in my area. These tapes seal very well and do not lift paints. The Badger Modelflex paints should not lift after one hour IF you use good quality masking tapes like I have mentioned. Also, was the surface properly prepared? Washed and not handled by bare hands after washing? Can make a big difference especially with acrylic paints. Please let me know the answers to the questions I have asked as I am truly interested in the specifics of your experience. Take care, Kurt Van Dahm Westmont, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Doug Marrel Subject: Robbe Valdivia 1/20 scale RC schooner Anyone else seen this one? Enter valdivia at the search function at www.robbe.at after clicking the appropriate geographical region. 1.6m long Fully sailable. Pretty little thing, if a bit expensive :). -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Marc Flake Subject: What color for Japanese Subs? The subject line says it all. The subs I am modeling are the I-1 and I-6, both out of the Kobe yards, so they are not covered in the Snyder and Short paint chips. Any help would be appreciated. Marc Flake -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Doug Wilde" Subject: Steamboats and bungs If by "passenger steamer" you mean a personal craft, such as a steam launch, then any color you wish would be appropriate. If you mean a commercial vessel, the ship would be painted in the livery of the line. In the latter case, there may be contemporary literature (e.g., posters) that would point you in the correct direction. The plug on the deck planks would be bungs. If a wood plug covers a fastener its a bung. I have installed many on the sailboat I am completing. A dutchman is used to cover a flaw in the wood. This may be due to a fault in the material (e.g., a loose knot) or the worker. I have one of the latter in my transom. Doug Wilde -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Robert Leonti Subject: 26' navy motor life boats 1/48 scale Does anyone know where I can get two 26' navy motor life boats in 1/4 (1/48) scale? I need them for a 1/48 scale Navy (ATF) Fleet Tug (USCGC Tamaroa) model which I am building. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. Thanks Capt. Bob Leonti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Edward and Eleta Malewitz" Subject: Re: WSW 700-19; Potemkin, Russian battleship, 1905 >> can anybody tell me of their experience with this model??? << I just got one from Pacific Front. What a beauty! Superb casting, some of the most delicate boat davits I've ever seen in resin (not photoetch). It looks like a fun build. Ed Malewitz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: installment number 2 of excerpts from the magazine HMS Caroline After 80 years the verteran light cruiser of the Great War, HMS Caroline is still languashing away in the backwater of Milewater Basin in Belfast Docks. Ship: Caroline was the name ship of a class of 8 light cruisers of 3750 tons, 40000hp giving a speed of 28.5 knots (on trials, all member of her class made over 31 knots. Laid down 25/01/14 & launched 28/01/14 & commissioned 17/12/14. her weapons 2 x 6" guns & 8 x 4" quick firing guns onteh fo'c's'le & 4 in the waist of the ship, plus a 3" aa aft of the funnels & also had 2 twin 21" torpedo tubes war duties: 1st light cruiser squadron of the Grand Fleet & in 1916 led the 4th light cruiser squadron at the Battle of Jutland. Following jutland 1 single 6" & 2 x 3" aa guns replaced the 4 quick firing 4" weapons on the foc's'le. Also a tripod mast in place of the original pole mast. Rest of the war she performed convoy duties & sweeps across the North Sea. carlone was the onlyship of her class not to suffer mine damage Peacetime: served East Indies flag showing duties, deomissioned 1922 as surplus. When the Ulster division of the Royal Naval Vulunteer Reserve (RNVR), the cruiser was converted for use as a headquaters & dril ship, The ship needed modifications which included the removal of her main & secondary armaments & boilers & between decks classrooms were added WW2: She remained at belfast, served as a training ship & later as a base support ship for a flotilla or armed trawlers. She also provided signals & cipher facilities throughout the war. At the end of the war she reverted back to a depot ship to the RNVR later the Royal Navy Reserve. For the last 55 years she has been regulary towed to Harland & wolff's belfast yard to be surveyed & refitted. Also the dockyards reports " no deterioration" Future: despitre many atempts to discover what the RN will do with its 77 year old cruiser, there seems to be no public statement as to her fate. photos included a long distance shot in WW1 & 3 shots of her in March 1985 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Re: Scale figures >> that's right, but we still don't want any seven footers, especially back in the 40's when even six footers were considered extraordinary tall. Extra tall figures also look odd when standing near a scale rail or door, etc. << Bob, OK point taken, you don't want the crew to look like a bunch of refugees from the NBA nor a Grade Five class. I do think you can use mixed scale figures on your ship and not have them look to out of place. You could hide them around various bits of equipment, weapons, etc. That way you have the extra crew required and a little bit of realism in regards to the human body. Then again on the other hand this so damn nit picky, who in the hell really cares? Happy modeling Keith Butterley warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Jack Brown Subject: Re: No Uss Arizona From Trumpeter >>> Look at the photo. In the lower right hand corner you will see the Mini Hobby Model logo. Where does the BOX say Trumpeter? The seller even says it is a MHM kit - 5th word in the description - but then he erroneously put Trumpeter in the description and banner. << >> They are made by Trumpeter, but they are made for Banner models. <<< Here's an interesting bit. I picked up a Banner 1/350 AZ the other day. (New job leading to some celebratory spending.:) It says "Banner Models" on all four sides and the top of the box. The part that surprised me is that there was a Hasegawa sticker on the side with a Hasegawa part number. Why would that be there? Jack Brown http://www.oz.net/~jbrown/ "When I bore people at a party, they think it's their fault." - Henry Kissinger -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Dboykap@aol.com Subject: Re: IJN Boot topping? >> Did the japanese use a black boot on their WWII ships? I'm buildling two 1/700 destroyers Akishimo & Sakura waterline. << Never. Dan Kaplan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: chinese beat Capt Cook & the Dutch to Australia & also discovered USA Seaman challenges Captain Cook history A Chinese admiral found Australia 350 years before Captain Cook claimed the honour in 1770, according to a retired British naval commander. London's Daily Telegraph says Gavin Menzies is planning to explain his re-write of history at London's Royal Geographical Society on March 15, The Sydney Morning Herald reports. He says a Chinese eunuch by the name of Zheng He (aka Cheng Ho) preceded Cook in finding the continent around 1420. The 62-year-old amateur historian also believes Columbus was 72 years too late in discovering America because Zheng He had already rounded the globe with his colossal multi-masted trade ships. Most of the records of Zheng He's voyages were destroyed, but the Telegraph says a few maps and star charts have survived and Menzies believes they were taken to Venice by a merchant traveller. Menzies says copies of the maps were used by explorers Christopher Columbus, Vasco da Gama, Ferdinand Magellan and James Cook, so "they knew where they were going before they set out". Associate professor and head of the University of NSW's School of History John Gascoigne said the claim was not implausible. "We do know that there were major exploratory Chinese flotillas over that period ... it's certainly plausible, but at the moment there's no hard evidence that I'm aware of," Mr Gascoigne told the Telegraph. "It may be that he has found the evidence." -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: alec@radmail.rad.co.il (Alex Kravitz) Subject: Correct Soviet Warship Gray The closest absolute match is Humbrol 127. But experimenting for a while and because I hate heavy washes (because I had never achieved the desired result), I decided to use Humbrol 106 (dark sea gray) as a base coat with further dry brushing using gradually Humbrol 140 and 127 for the superstructure. I saw quite enough Russian ships in Baltic, North and Black Sea fleets and they all were painted a bit different (Baltic and Black Sea fleets have a darker hue). Also, the real paint tends to reflect different amount of light in different conditions, varying from dark seagray to light grayblue. On model in 1:200 scale, Humbrol 127 looks too light for me, because most of the time model is sitting indoors with incandescent light. Alec -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: nd.ward@virgin.net Subject: Re: Hypothetical Time Travel What ship would I like to have been on in history? Easy - not one moment, but the entire voyage - HMS Beagle. Dave Ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Tony Ireland" Subject: Time travel (Delayed by waiting vainly for a promised videotape of a recent Prime TV episode in the *Secrets of W.W.2* series.) Would like to travel back to the night of 18th/19th December, 1941, to the port of Alexandria, Egypt. Six brave Italian frogmen in three *Chariots* placed limpet mines beneath the sister-ship battleships HMS Valiant and Queen Elizabeth at their shallow moorings in the harbour. Both ships apparently ended up sitting on the mud, immobilized at a crucial moment for the Royal Navy. It was not long after the loss of HMS Barham in the Eastern Med. and just before Force K was decimated by the loss of HMS Neptune and the destroyer Kandahar, and the crippling of the cruisers Aurora and Penelope, with HMS Galatea also sunk by a U-boat. And it was only ten days after the sinking of the Prince of Wales and Repulse off Malaya. Incredibly, the news of the frogmens success never reached the Italian Fleet, which otherwise could have taken command of the Mediterranean Sea, allowing Rommel to seize the Suez Canal. Have never heard how long it took for the two battleships to be refloated and to limp - presumably via the Cape - over to the U.S. east coast for lengthy repairs. The strange thing was that news of the disaster was kept so secret that I never became aware of it while serving in the Q.E. as a Midshipman for five months in late 1944. Amazing - a crew of over 1,000 - and nobody dropped a hint in my hearing. Truly the best kept secret of W.W.2. Cheers, Tony -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: andy vu Subject: Re: Cheng Ho Did Cheng Ho and his treasure ships ever reach America? I thought he only sailed as far as Africa. When is the treasure ship model available? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: On-line Indexes >> In reference to the Model Ship Journal index mentioned by Victor Baca on SMML, wouldn't it be nice if ALL the model magazines provided on line a complete index of all back issues, kept up to date as each new issue is published. << You should be able to e-mail a publisher for a current cumulative index. I have one maintained here on my computer and it's easily available via e-mail for the asking. You can then use cut & paste to drop it into a Word file, download to a printer, etc. I may have it added to the website, but this is a one-man operation and my time is spent getting the magazine together, building contract models and all the million other things that need doing before Model Ship Journal arrives in the mailboxes and on the hobby shop shelves. Let me know if an e-mail copy would assist you. Victor Baca Model Ship Journal -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume