Subject: SMML VOL 1573 Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2002 00:06:41 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: HB Models 2: wood decks on models 3: mag snippets part 3 4: Rollin', rollin', rollin' on the rivah 5: Re: Raise Alabama 6: Kursk and Great Lakes Freighter 7: Dimensions of RN Battle Ensign as compared to RN White Ensign 8: Re: Raise the ALABAMA on history channel 9: Re: Raise the ALABAMA on history channel 10: Japanese DD markings 11: Tamiya 1/350 USS Fletcher Guns 12: Re: 26' navy motor life boats 1/48 scale 13: Re: Announcement from Nautical Research Guild 14: Resin Hull Probs 15: USS Olympia?? 16: Re: San Feancisco kits 17: Re: No Uss Arizona From Trumpeter -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: 26' navy motor life boats 1/48 scale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SolidStump@aol.com Subject: HB Models I've been looking at listings for HB models. Particularly, the WW1 ships. Do they come with Photo etch? How good are they compared to say WEM. Thanks for your opinions. Simon Scheuer Covington, GA, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Wilgossett@aol.com Subject: wood decks on models To take a different tack on the subject of preparing wooden decks for painting, fighting with decals, replacing the entire deck with scribed styrene, etc., why in the world don't ship model manufacturers follow the lead of the aircraft model manufacturers and provide RECESSED lines? If the aircraft mold makers can provide extremely fine recessed lines and rivets on the various compound curves of fuselages why can't it easily be done on virtually flat deck surfaces? This would solve a host of problems and one only has to look at nicely finished aircraft models to see what a light wash can do to recessed lines. And light sanding does not damage the lines. I know, I know, it's much easier for the manufacturer to scribe lines into the mold surfaces, which produces raised deck seams on the finished piece, but come on guys, it's way past time to change this archaic procedure and provide us with the same quality that the flyboys (and flygirls) have been receiving for the past 10-15 years. Thanks for letting me vent. Will Gossett Atlanta, GA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: mag snippets part 3 HMS Illustrious * nov 28, 1936 admiralty invited 8 ship buildingers to tender for construction of 2 new armoured fleet carriers. lowest tender was rcvd from & accepted 13 jan 1937 from Vickers Armstrong * Keel laid ws laid @ barow 27 april 1937 & launched 5 april 1939 by Lady Henderson, wife of the controller of the navy. her completion was delayed slighty by the addition of radar equipment & she did not leave Barrow until 20 april 1940. When leaving her birthplace she accientally rammed & sank the tug Poolgarth. She moved to Liverpool to be dry docked to be fitted with new 3 blade phosphor bronze propellers in place of the cast iron units. she ran aceptance trials in late May in Liverpool Bay & despite the ship had vibration troubles, particularly in the island superstructure she was accepted by the navy data: completed 27,950 tone, length 744 feet & was 96 feet wide & draught of 28 feet. She had 6 admiralty three drum boilers. she had a 5 blade propeller to the centre shaft in 45-46 bu tthis did fix her vibration troubles. The armoured flight deck was orderd from Czechoslavkia & the rest of the metal from british companies. she was armed with 16x 4.5" guns in 8 twin turrets & 6 8 barreled mk viii pom poms. service: Bermuda with 806 (fulmar) & 819 (swordfish) was damaged by heavy weather & returned to UK for 10 refit. arrived Med fleet 5 sept '40. took part on raid of Taranto. damaged off crete 10 jan 41 by 8 bombs, a 1,000lb bomb hit the ship & passed through the forward end of the flight deck & exploded 10 feet above the water line outside the ship, another went throught the aft lift & exploded beneath the lift well, another penetraded the flight deck & exploded inside the hanger, 1 hit the the P1 pom pom & hit the armour belt but did notexplode, 3 x 500lb bombs hit 1 on s2 pom pom & the other 2 hit the after lift well. Limped to malta. hit by 1,000lb bomb on 16 Jan, another 1,000lb near missed & casued a 5 degree list. Left to Alexanderia on 25 Jan & then in march to the USA USA: arrived Norflk 12 may 41 spent 6 months under repair. catapult was modified to be able to launch US aircraft & 10 20mm Oerlikons were fitted. Left Norfolk 28 Nov & in company with Formidable, rammed Formidable 16 Dec causing damage bows & flight deck on port side above water line. 2nd section tomorrow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: Rollin', rollin', rollin' on the rivah >> This takes a while to load (about ten pictures) but it's worth the wait. http://koti.mbnet.fi/~soldier/towboat.htm << The site has a guestbook. One of the entries links to a message that gives a more thorough explanation from another mailing list: http://www.steamradio.com/pipermail/multihulls/2002-February/008817.html Basically, it explains that it is the Tombigbee River in Alabama, and the river was in flood. The tug righted itself because of extreme bottom weighting. Read the whole message; it's a pretty good story. cheers Cliff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Raise Alabama Hi Ray, I have seen a program about Alabama on Discovery Europe at least couple of times but I am sure that the program I saw talked about mixed American-French team diving on Alabama for quite a few seasons already and that it was organised as a long time project. The number of artifacs discovered while not huge (because of the archeological approach to the wreck) was certainly bigger than just a cannon (still loaded BTW) and some crockery and included metal band from the main mast (important because it is shown in a photo of Alabama,s captain) and IIRC steering wheel among other things. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Kursk and Great Lakes Freighter This past Sunday night, The Learning Channel (TLC) ran a program on the sinking of the Russian submarine "Kursk". The program will be re-broadcast at 8 PM EST on Friday. The commentary said the "Kursk" was "not only the most technologically advanced submarine the Russians had, but was also considered 'Unsinkable'." Am I the only one who finds the concept of an "unsinkable" submarine amusing? Anyway, it only goes to prove again that the fastest way to sink a ship is to label it "unsinkable". Also, I am looking for information on a type of Great Lakes freighter I have seen pictured a couple of times. This freighter appears to be built on a tugboat-like hull. The hull is built one deck higher, with straight (vertical) sides extending upwards from the tug deck to the upper deck. There is a wheelhouse and funnel on the upper deck, but no deck house. Large (sliding?) doors are in the side of the cargo area for loading from a dock. I am interested in information on the origins of this type of vessel, pictures and plans. I have a Scale Shipyard / Warships Unlimited 1900 Tugboat hull I'd like to use for this project. Any help? Thanks, Edd -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Frank Allen Subject: Dimensions of RN Battle Ensign as compared to RN White Ensign Does anyone know the exact dimensions of a World War Two era standard White Ensign and Royal Navy Battle Ensign were? I've got some conflicting information (I measured a couple of examples in person, but one was wool and appeared a bit "skewed") so I am curious to see what others know on the subject. Thanks in advance! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: Raise the ALABAMA on history channel Though it had its moments, the show on The History Channel was mediocre and bloated to fill the time slot. For anyone really interested in CSS Alabama I recommend reading TWO YEARS ON THE ALABAMA by Arthur Sinclair, Fifth Lieutenant CSN, and CONFEDERATE RAIDER: RAPHAEL SEMMES OF THE ALABAMA, by John M. Taylor. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Re: Raise the ALABAMA on history channel Hi Yes I did watch the raise the Alabama special. It was pretty good. They mixed the past with present well. What was amazing was the weight of the cannons. The one raised weighed was 5,000 pounds. Also they were concerned about it was still loaded and what it would take to remove a rusty shell from a rust coated barrel. Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: Japanese DD markings Hi there: The wartime markings of Japanese destroyers have long been a mystery to me, so I've followed the recent postings on the hull markings closely. It would certainly have been logical to paint them out as John Snyder suggested. But I have a photo of Akizuki showing her side markings quite clearly, and as she was completed in June 1942, at least one destroyer didn't have them painted out. Another photo of her shows no side markings. Maybe she only carried them for a short time on trials? The cruisers certainly appear to have had their markings removed shortly before the opening operations, I think I remember a specific reference to this in the massive Japanese Cruisers of WWII book. The funnel bands have also been a puzzle. The few wartime photos I have show no funnel markings at all, and again it would have been logical to have painted them out, mainly because they were white. However, I have an account of the Battle of Cape Esperance which states that Fubuki swung out of line and because of the short range, appeared as a battleship sized blip on radar once she was at right angles to the rest of the Japanese ships. This made her an obvious target and when illuminated, the white funnel markings were clearly visibile and supplied proof that she was Japanese. So, is there a definitive answer about the hull and funnel markings? Were they only painted out during yard periods? At the captain's descretion? When they had some spare grey paint, allowing of course for the correct shade depending on the builder's yard :o)? For that matter does anybody know how the funnel markings worked? For the cruisers, there were 4 different types of markings: one thin band; two thin bands; three thin bands; and one fat band with one thin band. This was used to mark the ship's relative number in the division, with one thin being number 1, two thin bands being number 2 etc. Did the destroyers also use this system? Seeing as how most destroyer divisions had 8 vessels, I figure that they used the fore funnel for the first 4 ships, and the after funnel for the next 4 ships. Tricky of course for the one funnel designs. Any ideas out there? Cheers Rob PS: Enjoyed the Towboat photos, just when you think you have bad days at work! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Terry Wiltshire Subject: Tamiya 1/350 USS Fletcher Guns Hi All I've nearly finished building a Tamiya Fletcher Out of the Box as a return to ship modelling and fancy building another with the Gold Medal Models photo etch as my first "super detailed ship". I need to practice while I wait for White Ensign to release their Lance/Milne kits (hint hint). One thing I've noticed/picked up from reviews is that the barrels of the 5" guns are in the middle on the kit and off to one side on the real ships. In fact the gun houses on the real ships do not even look symmetrical in some drawings/pictures. Any views on this? Has anybody fixed this with file and knife? Are there any resin replacements out there? It sticks out like a sore thumb when you know about it! Any tips and advice will be gratefully accepted. Terry Wiltshire Budapest (A long way from the sea!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Sean D. Hert" Subject: Re: 26' navy motor life boats 1/48 scale >> Yes, Quartermaster makes beautiful 26' boats in cast resin. I haven't seen a web page for them, but I know that Franciscan Hobbies in San Francisco stocks their products. Give Bob Evans an Email: << Bob Thomas is not currently a SMMLie. He keeps meaning to get back on though.... Anyway, his email address is Qmaster4@juno.com. We are currently working on a website for Quatermaster. Sean D. Hert -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Announcement from Nautical Research Guild David Blanchard writes: >> We want articles developed from original sources, not syntheses of previously published work, or narratives derived from secondary sources, except perhaps as brief background statements. We want articles that are expanded or that are more than or different from what has appeared in other places or forms, including the Web. We like our articles to be richly illustrated with plans, drawings, and photographs of both full-size vessels and of models of vessels. There is no monetary compensation << Nice to know that the spirit of Scale Ship Modeler is alive and well.... I would like to have a lot of people do detailed, time consuming, meticulous work for me for free too! Particularly if they are makers of fine Scotch...! Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Derek Wakefield Subject: Resin Hull Probs I recently bought a used CW 1:700 Tennessee resin kit from a gent here on the list (to which I would like to say, "Mucho thanks for helping fill this gap in my model fleet). The kit arrived safely monday afternoon and did much to lift my sagging spirits. I broke a bone in my foot leaving work last Thursday. After being stuck at the house all weekend, I desperately needed a pick up. Nothing quite like getting a new ship model to raise one's morale. The kit appears to be complete, but I've noted two probs that I'm not entirely sure how to address. Prob #1: The gent started work on the kit by painting the hull. Unfortunately, the color scheme is all wrong because I'm planning to build the kit to represent the California as she appeared at Surigao Strait. As such, I'm going to have to strip it all the way down and start over from scratch. I can't tell whether he used acrylics or enamels, but what would be the best way to strip paint off a resin hull? Prob #2: The hull is slightly warped at the stern and bow. I've heard many solutions on how to fix this. The most common fix is to dip it in hot water for a few minutes and then apply weights to the part to get the bend/warp out. My concern with this solution is that the weights might flatten out some of the deck and superstructure features. What would be the best way to address this issue? Since it's a waterline kit I guess I could just glue it down to the base, but I don't want it popping back up at some later point. Thanks in advance!! Derek Wakefield Denton, TX -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "michael thrupp" Subject: USS Olympia?? Just wondering... On page 150 of the Time-Life book 'The Battle of the Atlantic', there is a photograph entitled 'Mothballed World War 1 destroyers jam the Philadelphia Navy Yard prior to being exchanged in September 1940 for British bases.....'. In the top right hand corner of the photo is what appears to be a pre-World War 1 armoured cruiser - is it the USS Olympia, or if not, does anyone know what ship it is? Hypothetical time travel cheap shot - Don't care what ship I'm on in 2030, but just want to be there when ICM release their kits of the Takao and Chokai. Regards Mike Thrupp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Henry T Chen" Subject: Re: San Feancisco kits >> What would be my best bet in 1/700 for a USS San Francisco in 1942? I've noticed that several manufacturers sell resin kits of this ship. If there is a kit of the Astoria or Quincy that is better, that is ok, too. I guess building the Tamiya Indianapolis put the hook in me for treaty cruisers. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. << The New Orleans are available by quite a few manufactureres. Fine review articles are readily available on www.steelnavy.com. This is one of my most favorite class of warships. I myself have Waveline's New Orleans, WSW's Quincy, and Loose Cannon's Vincennes. Put accuracy aside, I like WSW's ease of building the most, adding Tom's PE set, you would have a fine model in no time.. I am, however, most impressed by Loose Cannon's approach, their parts are detailed (nicely attaced to the "tree"), and even comes with PE set. That is amazing for a garage resin producer, you can see the producer really takes pride of their works... So John, if I may offer an opinion, Loose Cannon's Vincennes gets my vote.... Henry Los Angeles, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: No Uss Arizona From Trumpeter >> The part that surprised me is that there was a Hasegawa sticker on the side with a Hasegawa part number. Why would that be there? << Could be the way the importer for Oz choose to do his stock control. Could you scan and send it to me? James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: LHDockyard@aol.com Subject: Re: 26' navy motor life boats 1/48 scale >> Does anyone know where I can get two 26' navy motor life boats in 1/4 (1/48) scale? I need them for a 1/48 scale Navy (ATF) Fleet Tug (USCGC Tamaroa) model which I am building. Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. << Bob, We have a 1/48 scale 26' USN motor whalebot kit available if that is what you are looking for. It is a very highly detailed resin casting Don Loyalhanna Dockyard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume