Subject: SMML VOL 1580 Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 00:53:44 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: WW2 Cement IJN and Merchant Ships 2: Show me the money... 3: 80' ELCO Anatomy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mike Elliott Subject: WW2 Cement IJN and Merchant Ships I ran across a book at a local bookstore called "War of Our Fathers: Relics of the Pacific Battlefields" by Richard Marin. In it, there is an interesting image of a concrete merchant ship beached on the shores of Iwo Jima. The caption indicated that this was a Japanese ship damaged by US aircraft during the initial air assult on the island in late 1944/ early 1945. I did not purchace the book. However, the ships lines and superstructure suggests a standard, mid-late war expediant design similar to standard steel hull craft of the period. Is anyone aware of this war time Japanese merchant ship building program? Please post details or references Thanks Mike Elliott Santa Cruz, CA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Show me the money... I've been reading the recurrent threads about getting paid for articles versus doing it "for free" over the past three years on SMML. And I am not commenting on any one person's views, only the common thread. It seems kinda weird that a lot of these fellows who expect payment from a magazine or journal will turn around and spend as much time and effort on a posting or an in-depth review on a website and expect no compensation. The internet is no longer a place where money is not an issue. Websites run paid ads and some even expect payment for "button" links. And, almost every one of us has placed orders on internet "shopping cart" systems. Maybe we should begin expecting payment or barter considerations from websites for our research work (forums exempted, of course-unless they use pop-ups). For those who hold to the ideal view of the internet as a place for all to share history, consider this: the internet, being electronic in nature is only as permanent as yesterday's 8-track player. Will your work be seen in future generations? Probably not. Save it on disk you say? Nope, today's disk may only be read on some antique machine you find in a garage sale of the future. Even if they are compatable, plastics and magnetic tape media last only a few years. And, have you ever tried to print a 72 or 96 dpi photo scan? Yecch--useless. Technology leaves your legacy in the dust as soon as industry decides to change hardware platforms. The printed page, and its words and images, is forever if quality paper is used and it's carefully stored. I'd like to see some comments and reviews about various websites on this forum. Which webmasters pay for your work and which accept money from advertisers, using your work as bait for the "hit" counter. We see plenty of "this magazine is better than that magazine" or "this publisher pays and that doesn't" comments, now lets hold the websites to the same standards. "Show me the money" if that's all you're interested in. Go forth and publish, Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL Hi all, While Mr Baca raises some interesting points he glosses over others. I'm involved in both web and print publishing and would like to offer some thoughts on the matter. In regards to websites running advertising and expecting payment for links. What is not taken into account here is that decent web space and domain names cost hard earned cash and a helluva lotta time on the part of the people running them. Web advertising (including paying for links) is one way of re-couping that. The revenue gained then goes to pay costs (which may or may not include review kits or cash payments for articles) and the person's time & effort - just the same as in print magazines. Advertising also goes a long way to keeping sites free, which is nothing to sneeze at. As a general rule it's cheaper to advertise on the web, which means revenue is less than print magazines. Therefore just because a site may not pay for articles but also accepts advertising does not mean that the site can afford to pay contributors or hand out review samples. Many forums are used as a adjunct to websites and promote that particular website with feedback, etc - excusing them from the above question is like excluding the SMML digests from the SMML website - it only takes in part of the picture. Those forums that have pop-ups are generally free to set-up and maintain, which means the "pop-ups" benefit the hoster of the forums NOT the actual website using the forum in question. The site usually pays cash to remove pop-ups in this instance if they want an ad-free forum or if they want to use pop-ups for their own advertising. As for Mr Baca's assertion that all your hard work goes to "bait for the "hit" counter" - while he may come across some sites that do this, I do not know of any sites that do this. I for one pay no real attention to counters as they sometimes clock over when you reload the page and therefore are an inflated figure to trap the unwary advertiser. This is why the sites I run no longer use them. To the thorny issue of being paid for your work - well if you like payment for your work, find websites and magazines that offer that. But bear this in mind, just because a magazine or website pays for work does not guarantee the worth of the publication in question. As has been seen, the NRG Journal is a much respected magazine and does not pay for articles whilst other respected magazines like FSM do. It is up to contributors to decide where they place their articles and whether or not they expect to get paid either in cash or "in kind". While being aware that it is impossible to predict the future and the changes technology may make in our lives, I feel I must point out that binary based formats (such as jpg, gif etc) using html for example to display it, is unlikely to be totally extinguished. Saving to CD is now more often the case as opposed to floppys and tape and will last a lot longer. As the internet gets faster and faster higher quality images (i.e. good print quality) will be accessible for more and more users - those who at the moment expect good print quality images from websites are only fooling themselves. Most pictures on the web now are good enough to be of use in modelling anyway. Finally, the internet has opened up to many people the chance to both learn from and contribute to the sum of modelling knowledge around. They are no longer restricted to the small amount of modelling magazines around (approx 10-20, more if you include club magazines) and have their work seen by far more than the print media's base. Contributors are now not restrained by commercial imperatives ie: we MUST have the latest kit on the cover etc, etc. They can write about subjects that may have only a small interest base without waiting sometimes years to be published in print. Web based articles also have the advantage of being timely - ie; new kits, model meets, open days can be published almost straightaway without the delays encountered in the print media due to the production processes. For the record in regards to the SMML site - we do not pay for content at the moment. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: 80' ELCO Anatomy In the "for what it's worth" category, the AOS on the 80' ELCO is back on. It should be ready in 2004, after something else (that John L. will probably mention) is completed. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume