Subject: SMML VOL 1585 Date: Wed, 13 Mar 2002 12:57:34 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: The Model Ship Journal Spat 2: New books 3: Re: New book from Classic Warship 4: Re: New book from Classic Warships 5: Re: New books from Classic Warships 6: Re: WW2 Schnellboot Discovered in UK 7: Good/Bad model reviews 8: Good/Bad model reviews 9: AOTS suggestions 10: Re: autographs and Al Ross 11: Suggestion for Classic Warship series: Liberty Ships 12: Re: New book from Classic Warship 13: Re: new books 14: Re: Books et al 15: Re: New book from Classic Warships 16: Tamiya Yamato Deck 17: Re: Kingfisher 18: Re: New Books 19: New book from Classic Warships 20: Al Ross' AOS PT boat book 21: New Book Request 22: Re: New Books From Classic Warships 23: US Light Carriers in action -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Reviewing the Not So Good, The Bad And The Ugly -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS Hi all, Ok this has gone on long enough. Read Joel's first paragraph below to which I concur with most strongly. There was no attack on MSJ or indeed it's editor - diagreeance yes, but attack no. It sure as hell does not justify messages saying so. Now, maybe I have a thicker skin here and see things differently, but I saw nothing really wrong with that post. Otoh, see the next paragraph..... In regards to the post which suggested to John that "you really should seek professional help" - this is totally unacceptable behaviour here. To the idiot who wrote that post, I will not be putting it in SMML or indeed wasting my time replying to you personally, except to say: IT HAS NO PLACE IN SMML - Now, do I make myself perfectly and crystal clear!!! If not please tell me and I'll make sure I put it down in words of one syllable so there's no confusion in future. Regards, Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Joel Labow Subject: The Model Ship Journal Spat C'mon guys...it's time to take a deep breath and cool the rhetoric. I have read John Impenna's initial letter several times and certainly didn't see it as an "attack" nor was it in any way "vicious" in it's discussion of MSJ, nor was Victor Baca or MSJ in any way a "victim" of anything. However, the 'point-counterpoint' which has followed has grown increasingly thin-skinned and unpleasant on both sides. It's true that most reviews in hobby journals are generally positive...but that's true in auto journals, computer journals, gardening journals, etc., etc. There is a difference between deliberately writing a misleading review (which I have NEVER seen in any of the hobby journals that I take) and choosing not to review an indifferent product. I just reread the SteelNavy review of the 1/350 Viking Texas kit (generally exteemed to be one of the worst kits to come down the pike in a long while) and that FREE site didn't pull any punches that I could see. Journals like Consumer Reports which pay for, exhaustively test and rank ALL the products in a given category are rare (and CR maintains a stable of lawyers to manage all the lawsuits that their bad reviews generate). If any hobbyist has a question about a kit there is no shortage of bulletin boards to post questions. Given what a contentious lot we can be at times we are very fortunate to have a bevy of both paid and free sources of information in our hobby. Keep up the good work...and I promise to finish the review of the Heller Soleil Royal that has been sitting on my desk for the last n+1 months! Best regards, Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Robert Morris" Subject: New books Steve: 27-A / 27-C Essex carrier Enterprise CV 6 Ranger CV 4 Gato sub Massachusetts BB 59 Landing craft LCVP-LSD Not all in the same book. Maybe LCVP-LCT in one, LCI-LSM,in another and LST-LSD in the last. Robert Morris North Benton OH USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Ken LeClair Subject: Re: New book from Classic Warship Hmm, just as I thought having a "Anatomy of the Ship" book on one of the Japanese Carriers would be great, my opinion also stands for one from the Classic Warship series. Regards Ken LeClair HMCS Protecteur Victoria, Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Bob Evans Subject: Re: New book from Classic Warships To: Steve Wiper, The Pensocola (I'm Not awake yet) and Midway class carrier would be nice (:^> Thank you. Bob -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: New books from Classic Warships I support Kevin W.Woodruff's proposition for a book about early American warships. In addition to the ships he mentions I would like to add "Texas" and "Iowa" (IMO the most beautifull ship of the time) to the list. While most of the WWII subjects received coverage to the greater or lesser degree the subject of US Navy during US-Spanish War is covered to much lesser degree. Materials, including good photographic evidence, are there but with the exception of "The American Steel Navy" and Musicant's book about armoured cruisers nobody bothered with this subject very much. With avaliability of "Olympia", "Maine" and "Oregon" resin kits a book covering those subjects would not only be a valuable help to modellers but would also help to fill quite obvious (IMO) gap in the market. Best wishes D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: WW2 Schnellboot Discovered in UK Wow, this is an exciting development (for me, anyway)! Some of the survivors show up in the strangest places. In 1992, the former PT 451 showed up here in Bangor. It had been converted to a NY tour boat in the late 1940s and cut down to 65', but the hull was easily recognized. A local marina owner bought it for the engines (diesels by now) to power a barge he used to lift moorings and gave the hull to a local artist, who was going to use it for a houseboat. Well, as is often the case, it was neglected and eventually ended up about 20 miles downriver on the bank. It deteriorated over the years and eventually fell apart with assistance from the ice flows. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: david_l._miller@ccmail.wiu.edu Subject: Good/Bad model reviews I have read very few unfavorable reviews of model ships (and aircraft, armor, fantasy, etc.) if by "unfavorable" we mean the review includes phrases like "this model is a piece of crap..." or "this model is a real rip off..." On the other hand, model reviews I've read in FSM, Ships in Scale, and a number of web sites may describe "sink holes", "injector pin marks", "soft plastic", "poor quality or out of scale fittings", "poor instructions", "fit problems", "off register decals", "scale problems", "assembly problems" and "excess flash". I find these observations very useful and interesting. I have a number of unassembled models in my shop (gee... isn't that strange!) and I print off reviews of these kits and place them in the kit boxes, so the review will be at hand when I get around to assemble the model. In short, I have found most of the model reviews written by our colleagues to be enjoyable reading and also quite useful. Only a few reviews have ever dissuaded me from buying a kit. Dave Miller, Macomb, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: andy vu Subject: AOTS suggestions For the AOTS series, I'd like to suggest the USS Nevada and the French battleship Richelieu. Andy Vu -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: autographs and Al Ross >> I'll be first in line for the Elco book! << Back to the end of the queue, Rusty! ;^) Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Jan W.Muntz" Subject: Suggestion for Classic Warship series: Liberty Ships Kelvin Kok suggested Liberty Ships as a possible next title for the CW series. I would like to support that suggestion. The importance of Liberty Ships for the outcome of WWII can hardly be overestimated. Some 2700 were built and many of them had a long and succesful life after the war ended. A recent book "Liberty, the Ships that won the War" by Peter Elphick describes the history of these ships right and how the design evolved. However the book has only a few pictures and only one small and simple cutaway drawing of the design. Jan Muntz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: New book from Classic Warship Robert, I would like to do British Navy subjects, but there is such a copy write stranglehold on photos of these ships that it is cost prohibitive. Ever wonder why you dont see many books recently published on British Navy ships? The royalty from the Imperial War Museum is about $100 per photo! And they wonder why people dont buy them for publication! Thanks, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: New book from Classic Warship >> Probably wouldn't be alot of interest out there, except for us "tin can" lovers, but a book on the Farragut class Destroyers would be very nice. << Art, Look for books like this in my smaller "Warship Pictorial" series in the future. I am trying to do one of these books per year on a destroyers class. Thanks, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: new books >> See if you can get the drawings to be published in true scale! As we all know some of those anatomy drawings saw 1:200 or whatever and are not. Most of their drawings don't have dimensions so you cannot even guess the true scale. << Simon, This is probably my biggest gripe with the "Anatomy" series books. Only two of them have the drawings actually in the scale they say they are in. The rest were resized by the publisher, which shows a very severe lack of communication between author and publisher. That is why I want to do all this myself. If you really want something done right, do it yourself!!! Thanks, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Books et al Without wishing to overload the system with more discussion on this subject perhaps some thought could be given to a more eclectic range of subjects. Books and kits seem to concentrate on the better known warships of WW 2 so the we get HOODs, Yamato's and MISSOURI's ad nauseum. How about some English versions of those excellent French (Dumas and Guiglini) and Italian books (Ufficio Storico) that cover their fleets so admirably. Also let us not forget those fascinating ships that served in the South American Navies which were acquiring dreadnoughts before the larger European powers. The Imperial and Royal Austro-Hungarian Navy is another example. I have come across only two books, "Austro-Hungarian Battleships" by Paul J. Kemp (ISO Publications 1991) and Marine-Arsenal vol 27 "Die KREUZER der k. und k. Marine" by Erwin Sieche (text German). In 1968 BT Publishers published a wonderful book in English "Warships of the Imperial Russian Navy - Vol I Battleships" by V.M. Tomitch. I have not seen any further volumes in what promised to be a series. Another Russian gem is "Ships of the Russo-Japanese War 1904-1905" by Sergei Suligea in the Sergei ARSENAL series 1993. Entirely in Russian requires a Russian- English dictionary. No photos just plans, specs and brief career history. This book is a wonderful adjunct to Richard Hoegh's "The Fleet that Had to Die", Chatto and Windus 1963 and, together with "Warships of the Imperial Japanese Navy, 1869-1945" by Jentschura, Jung and Mickel, Arms and Armour Press 1977, would give the enterprising modeller the opportunity to model all the ships that took part in the epic Battle of Tsushima May 27th, 1905. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: SAMI ARIM Subject: Re: New book from Classic Warships Steve, Great idea to publish AOTS type books. One thing you should consider is to prepare the books similar to Fujiart's superb Nagato and Myoko class warships books format, which means, if you are doing the Arizona please include the Pennysylvania or if you are doing Bismarck, also include the Tirpitz. My personal favorite would be a Littorio class book. Best regards Sami Arim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Graeme Martin Subject: Tamiya Yamato Deck Aragiannis Evangelos writes how disappointed he is in the Tamiya Yamato split deck and motorised 1:350 kit. But is looking for extra tips. Conway's "Anatomy series" on Yamato is expensive but very good and he would find all he needs to know there. But in defence of Tamiya, this magnificent model kit is now well over 20 years old and like the Tirpitz/Bismark kit that came out at approximately the same time, it too is motorised. Twenty years ago in their wisdom the Japanese motorised their kits, whether from market research telling them that was what the public wanted or just the Japanese way of putting every conceivable option into their kits. I'm not sure. You will find some other Japanese kits of lesser quality and smaller scales, like 1:500 Nagato's to be motorised too. I think by 1985, Tamyia realised that the motorising was a waste of money as on later Missouri/New Jersey and KG5/POW, they omitted the motors as an option. But to alter the deck into a one piece deck now on Yamato would be very costly and not reap the financial rewards needed for such an outlay. And Tamiya like any other manufacturer looks at numbers these days. Why do you think there are no Alabama's, Richelieu's,Hood's, Scharnhorst's, Roma's in 1:350 scale out of Tamiya? It's the numbers. Not enough of you good folk out there buying that scale to justify the huge set up costs. I heard tell from one shop owner that Tamiya told him, that it would take them 20 years to recoup the cost of the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier before they broke even. True or false? I have no idea if this is correct. But it gives you some idea why there are a zillion motorised cars in the model shops and only a few good sized plastic kits of battleships around. The majority of people today are buying easy to put together cars. Another comment from a shop owner is, "How soon can I get this in the water?" So the majority in this fast paced world are demanding near reading built kits of either boats or cars to take home and out of the box and to go! I'm not saying small static kit building is a dying hobby. Far from it. It is an extremely satisfying and rewarding hobby. But we have to accept the commercial and economical realities of 2002 that we wont get too many more 1:350 scale good quality plastic kits in mass production, hence the upsurge in resin kits filling the market gap. These are hugely expensive. But they do fill a need in the market place. What you will get i believe is more 1:700 scale plastic. I read where Tamiya have just produced a 1:700 scale of Prinz Eugen. Great. I'll buy one! I built all of the 1:350 scale Tamiya kits over the last 20 years with the exception of POW and enjoyed all of them. But in my frustration with the manufacturers and wanting to go bigger to build the ultimate static model of my favourite ship, I scratch build now. The quantum leap from sticking together by numbers to actually building is comfort zone pushing to the extreme. But oh so satisfying. Graeme Martin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Kingfisher Brrrrr... wingy things, well as it does have a float we'll try to get over that. ;-) All kiddin' aside, I do built some airplane kits to (ok, mostly, I confess, butt I try to limit them to FAA subjects, to keep up appearances :-). Monograms venerable Kingfisher is a nice kit for its age, and with a little work can turn out a nice model. Main problem is the interior under that massive greenhouse. Cutting Edge tackled this in an unbelievable resin update kit. Next to that they also released a corrected cowling and float. Together with an Engines & Things resin engine and the Squadron vac-form canopy, you'll have a rather expensive update set for wich you have to buy a very cheap kit! Main problem with the kit's float is that is too small. I for one can life with that, as the it still looks like a damn kingfisher to me. Some purists out there will differ with me on that, but they probablyy have more money than me to spend on this kit. The interior and canopy is more than enough for me, not to mention those RN decals! Oh, yeah, you'll probably want to rescribe those raised panel lines too :-) Erwin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: JOHN CURRIE Subject: Re: New Books Hi All, Mr. Wiper is looking for our suggestions for his new series.Well here's mine, The Colony Class Cruisers, Leander Class Cruisers, Town Class Cruisers, Arethusa Class Cruisers( why didn't i just say all RN Cruisers)(Because thats not all i want) all WW2 RN Carriers, Oh and Destroyers and the rest. Cheers John Currie CPO(M) HMS EXETER, RN. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: cfrieden@calpoly.edu Subject: New book from Classic Warships Kelvin Mok writes: >> Another one on Liberty Ships << I’ll second that one. No other class of ships comes close to this one in terms of number built, yet there is very little good information available to the modeler. The best single source right now (in print or otherwise) is probably the SMML homepage. Plus you have two preserved ships and several related museums that would probably be interested in selling the book. I would also like to add another vote in favor of the landing craft book. Regards, Chris Friedenbach volunteer crewmember, Liberty ship SS Jeremiah O’Brien -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Al Ross' AOS PT boat book >> I'll be first in line for the Elco book! Rusty White 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention Chairman OKC IN 2003! << Oh, no you won't! "Way back when", on a visit to BlueJacket Ship Crafters in Searsport, Maine, I met Al. He was working up the PT prototype for the BJ kit and he was kind enough to give me a "briefing" on the model and a tour of his "prototype shop". I have first dibs here as well as moral superiority. Stand aside, National Chairman: you're in the line of fire. Bob Steinbrunn (who is grinning hugely in...) Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "John Rule" Subject: New Book Request In response to Steve Wiper's request. Try these. IJNS Kaga & Akagi Independence CVL / Cleveland Class Cruisers Colossus Class light fleet carriers Majestic Class pre-dreadnoughts Any US destroyer except Fletcher, Sumner or Gearing Just a thought. John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: GUSDOCVILL@aol.com Subject: Re: New Books From Classic Warships SMML'ers, Wow! What a wonderful selection of topics for Steve to work on!!! ALL excellent!! I like would like to see any book that shows the ship's rigging of the masts, yardarms, funnels - I think you all get the idea. WW2 ships have LOTS of rigging. I like to put as much of it on as possible. But where are the lines secured to? Flagbox, cleats, what and where are they located. I would like to see books on the early WW2 US destroyers. The ones that were at Coral Sea, Midway and Salvo Island. I have always though it would be so cool for some company to make a 1942 Farragut destroyer and then include in the instruction sheet how to update her up to the end of the war. Thank you for listening. Gus Semper Fi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "Michael C. Smith" Subject: US Light Carriers in action Just wanted to pass along that I got the proofs back today for the US Light Carriers in action book I've been working on for Squadron/Signal. The artwork and inside color profiles are done, and the layout is getting final tweaking. Will go to press next month, and I hope everyone (or at least a substantial number of people) is pleased. It is mostly about the Independence class CVLs, but since the Saipan class is so closely related, they were added too (and the title changed from "Independence Class Carriers in action). Enjoy, Michael Smith Marshall, Texas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Reviewing the Not So Good, The Bad And The Ugly >> I was wondering, if this is true, why don't you provide reveiws of poor kits and say so? This query is not just asked of you, but anyone who writes. << Hi Kerry: You know, that isn't a bad idea. Up until now, we have tried to do only the good kits (IMHO) in MSJ reviews. The thinking was that we only had 48 pages and wanted to tell modelers what we thought were nice kits to purchase or convert. Now that the page count is increased, I think your idea is fine. How about a consolidated review along the lines of, "Presenting MSJ's Pick For The Worst Model Ship Kits Of All Time." Let me know what you guys think--any candidates for inclusion? It could be a fun exercise. But don't flame me if one of your favorites is included! BTW, the round file is actually an extension of the parts box. Even truly awful kits can be salvaged for parts and shapes. Oftentimes only the sprues are useful, but they come in quite handy. Best Regards, Victor Baca MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume