Subject: SMML VOL 1597 Date: Tue, 19 Mar 2002 12:37:52 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: wants and needs 2: Re: Bismarcks 3: Re: Scharnhorst decks 4: SCHARNHORST chafing plates 5: Building metal kits 6: 1/350th HMS HOOD 7: Want Vs. Need 8: Re: GLENCOE SUBCHASER 9: Wants & Needs 10: Re: HMS Newfoundland 11: Arromanches kit 12: wooden hull planking 13: 2 reasons not to start the Revell S-100 14: Louisville instructions 15: White Metal kits 16: skytrex kits 17: The difference between "Want" and "Need" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1/700 Knox class frigate -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: arthur w rohloff Subject: Re: wants and needs Steve should have had that 8th beer--that's usually when complete enlightenment occurs (or in my case, my head has hit the floor). On a more pertinent note, I too want every model out there, although I wish they were in 1/350 scale instead of 1/700. However, since 1/700 has more opportunities for models, I'll probably build more in that scale, as I slowly exhaust the possibilities in 1/350. As for $, unless I win the lottery soon, I, like most buyers out there, must just try to be a smart shopper, although there are times when I go into the store and all rationality goes out the window. Luckily my wife is understanding, as she points out that I could be spending my time and money on less desirable pursuits (e.g., those pretty women Steve referred to!) Happy building to all. Art Rohloff Winfield, IL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "william k code" Subject: Re: Bismarcks Hello list, I have the Samek 1/700 scale Resin Kit of Bismarck .. Very nice hull! I would of liked seperate brass main gun barrels as are on Pit Roads Prinz Eugen but you can always turn your own.. Im looking forward to doing a Baltic dorama of both ships together .. Yes a new plastic kit of Bismarck in this scale is long overdue! cheers Bill Code -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: Re: Scharnhorst decks Steve Wiper writes: >> I believe this to have been wood. Also, the planking ran the direction of the anchor chain and not that of the surrounding wood decking. I dont know if it was a different type of wood. I hope you are staining your basswood deck planking with a teak stain??? << Good question, I have not decided how mine should be stained at this point. I choose basswood because of the grain. I am open to suggestion from the experts if teak stain is the way to go. Are there color photos of Kriegsmarine decks out there? The interpretation of black and white photos for color is an area in which I freely admit no competence Thanks! Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: SCHARNHORST chafing plates >> 1. Was this area planked with wood or steel strips. 2. If wood, was it a different species? It seems darker in photos. 3. What would be the best material to simulate this on a large model << Kurt, I too have puzzled over this; metal or wood? I agree that some WW2-era SCHARNHORST pics seem to show wooden chafing strips on the teak deck below the anchor chains. This is probably your best bet. The German navy had a variety of practices on this point over the years. For example, the WW2 PRINZ EUGENseems to have used teak on teak, as did WWI BADEN (BB). WW1 SCHARNHORST (CA) used mahogany on teak, WW1 EMDEN (CL) metal, partly with square antislide pattern. Tim -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Building metal kits >> A sort-of-newbie question. I've had a rush of enthusiasm and purchased Skytrex's 1:700 HMAS Sydney in white metal, I've just received it and I love it ..... (here comes the but ) but I have no idea how to assemble a white metal model kit... Can anyone point me in the direction of a good "how to" for white metal kits? << IHP is making the transition to producing 1:700 scale metal kits, though I'm doing it differently than Skytrex in terms of engineering. Skytrex kits do it the old way, that is to say with a lot of superstructure cast on to the hull, while IHP kits, starting with the SIMS, will be in a lot of pieces with nothing cast on the hull, like a typical plastic or resin kit. You have it a bit easier with a Skytrex kit in terms of assembly. You need some small files, a bit of sandpaper of varying grades, a pin vise with different sized drill bits, and a sharp X-acto blade. I find a toothbrush-sized wire brush (steel bristle) to be handy also for shining up the larger parts in preparation for painting. Simply clean the flash off the parts as you would a plastic or resin kit. Pewter is a stable but workable material. Glue the parts together with super glue, or in the cases of larger parts, steel-filled epoxy (this is slower, so use it only on larger parts). Replace any cast masts with brass rod. When filing metal, the secret is to keep your files clean. Use that wire brush to brush away the material in the file teeth every little bit. When the files get dull, throw them in the trash and replace them immediately. You can use common modeling putty like Squadron to fill minor surface imperfections. If you want to fill more than this, use some of that steel-filled epoxy or Bondo. Each is machinable when dry with hand tools. When painting your model, give it a primer coat first. An optional step is to pickle the entire model in vinegar for a few hours before painting. Use automobile primer grey available at auto parts stores. Then, you can paint over than with whatever paint you want. Hope this helps! The same suggestions can be used on IHP kits. Mike Bartel IHP http://ihphobby.tripod.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Robin Jenkins" Subject: 1/350th HMS HOOD Now, I know there could be an injection moulded 1/350th Hood on the way (if not from ICM, or Trumpeter, or Italarei, depending on who you believe will end up with the moulds), but despite this, is there anyone out there who could help me locate a White Ensign Models 1/350th Hood (yes, the very expensive one!)? I would be prepared to pay a top price, and will pay shipping from anywhere in the world to the U.K. Without going into detail, I need to acquire one as soon as possible for a special birthday. If anyone can help, please contact me. Best wishes, Robin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Want Vs. Need I've had the same conversation with people here, too, and with folks on other boards in model railroading and airliner modeling. Remember that we are dealing with the Hobby industry, which is a branch of the overall Entertainment industry. If people don't like a movie, they will not spend $8-$12 to go see it. Sometimes, if they hear that it is a so-so film, they will wait a few months until it goes to tape or DVD and then rent it for a fraction of the cost to view in their own home. Some folks won't go out to see a movie at all, they wait until they can rent it. Some folks go to see a movie and then wish they hadn't (American Pie 2 comes to mind). Taking the film industry as an example could lead to a whole 'nother socio-logical discussion, which I won't get into here, but suffice it to say that there are a larger number of people who will go to see a movie than go to buy a $30 magazine subscript or a $300 warship kit. Now, there are other things that people can do with their entertainment dollars. They don't have to see a movie. They could go to a sporting event, the ballet, a steak dinner, a museum, a titty bar, a Star Trek convention, or an orchestra performance. There are millions of other ways of spending our disposable income. People have a choice, and they will make the choice depending on what funds they have available, and what they are hot to do at the time (or if they have a date they want to impress). The same reasoning is often applied to the hobby industry. We don't need to buy these models. We WANT to buy them, when our finances permit, and if the model is what we want, and then, if the quality is there. I don't make very many of each model I produce, but I manage to sell them because I reach the people that WANT them enough to send me the money for them. When I have sold model railroad items, the issue of socioeconomics sometimes doesn't apply. People with less money available to them are just as likely to buy as those with $80, to $100,000 a year jobs. They WANT to afford my stuff because I am making what they want and they think I make a good representation of it. Magazine subscripts are the same. Some people get subscrips to everything and some people (like myself) just buy them if there are articles they like, or if they need to update some addresses. With the Internet information explosion, magazines have taken a back seat, and fewer people are buying or subscribing. The publishers recognize that, and though some, like Model Railroader, have gone downhill in their response to this trend, other publishers like Dan Jones and Victor Baca for ship modelers, haven't changed the product, and have continued to give modelers what they NEED and WANT, each in their own way. But, these two in particular are NICHE publications. People that really WANT them will subscribe to them, and from what I hear, they are both doing pretty good in that department. We in the industry can't expect to sell to everyone or appeal to everyone. There will always be a few that will question prices (and quality), and even when you explain why they are what they are, there will still be some resistance to the prices in a world that grew up with $1 waterline destroyers and $.69 Revell kits that wouldn't stand up to the kind of scrutiny new kits get today. But, for everyone that doesn't understand, there are people that do understand and still WANT the products we make, because they are understand the here and now and why, and are ready to live with it to satisfy their WANTS. One question, Steve- did you WANT or NEED those seven beers? I for one, would have taken the pretty woman anyday! Quite frankly, that new Prinz Eugen kit could wait! Mike Bartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: GLENCOE SUBCHASER >> I noticed a recent post that mentioned converting the WW1 SCs to WW2 PCs. Is the Glencoe kit amenable to this conversion? I'm happy to live with the slightly smaller scale. << I suspect you mean a WWII SC (110') rather than PC (173'), although the first few WWII SCs were initially designated PCs. Anyway, aside from approximate dimensions, the two hulls are vastly different in plan, profile, and cross-section. Go to (members.aol.com/lawman555/subchaser.htm) and scroll down to the set of plans for SC 1474 and compare them with the Glencoe kit; you'll see the differences quite clearly. Also, visit Ted Treadwell's site (members.aol.com/diodor/splinterfleet) for additional reference material. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Wants & Needs Hi Steve: Ahhh...the trick is to make those wants become needs. I want every new kit, book and plan that catches my fancy. I need material to write about, therefore everything I want I need. Worst of all, I NEED MONEY to purchase those wants. Thanks to my wealthy uncle, I'm allowed to get some of my own money back. Good ol' Uncle Sam helps out with tax breaks when my wants become needs in feeding a model related business. I also want those purty women, thank goodness every day at 1730 sharp, the purtiest of them all walks in the door to brighten up the house! And I could use a beer or two but Seven!!??. Anyway, it's snowing outside so I'll settle for 7 cups of coffee and a joyful day of stuffin' model magazines into manilla envelopes. Ya'll have a good day making your ship models, writing books, drawing plans and doin' whatever else fills the need. Never Needy, Victor Baca -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Dimi Apostolopoulos Subject: Re: HMS Newfoundland John, What you see on the B-turret appears to be a large carley float. Also the 272 should be on top of the bridge. I have copies of 8 photos from the US NARA supposedly from January 1943 (I guess right at the time of her commission) and March 1943. If you are interested let me know off-line. One of the March 1943 photos (oblique overhead) shows that catapult in position and aircraft arrangements still in place. BTW, this photo is included in Volume III of Alan Raven's recent RN camouflage books. Dimi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "john fiebke" Subject: Arromanches kit One or a few of you were looking for an Arromances kit... I have a bagged kit (complete, but no box) of the Heller Arromanches. For some reason, all the parts are loose in bags, but it is all there as far as I can tell (its a swap meet purchase.) I bought an Illustrious at the same time from the same seller, also bagged, and it was 100% complete. I'd be willing to make a fair trade. Contact me off-list if interested. I think I even have the two issues of plastic ship modeler with the article about converting it to Boneventure to add to the mix. john f -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: wooden hull planking >> One of the things that I regularly mess up and which frustrates the *&8%$%$# out of me is the planking of a hull! The resultant screw up often leaves me without motivation to continue for months and months afterwards! I have read (tried to) the Roberts book on planking and I am utterly confused by all the talk of "spiling", and wider than normal garboards! So here is the concept - load the hull lines into a CAD program - press the "flatten button" and abracadabra a planking diagram automagically appears. Attach diagram to plywood, cut or scroll saw, and bingo, hull complete. (Or even fancier, send planking diagram to laser cutter or CAM cutter or laser cutting service) Does anyone know of such an animal? Has anyone on this forum written an add on for Autocad or something? Do any of the commercial boat software suites do this kind of thing? << Dear frustrated Boatbldr: I have three books on planking wooden hulls and think Jim Roberts' is the best (and least expensive), but you might also have a look at Don Dressel's "Planking for Ship Modelers" as well. Sometimes it takes a different author's style to turn on the light for you and you'll have the "Aha!" experience. (No, not *THAT* one, a ship-modeling one!) Planking is not that easy. It requires some thought and advance planning. It goes slowly. It creates sawdust which migrates just *everywhere* in your house. Having said that, one of the most rewarding (for me) aspects of building a plank-on-bulkhead or plank-on-frame wooden ship model is a well-executed, historically correct planking job. Dave Stevens at The Lumberyard has some pages you might want to take a look at on his Web site. He's a supplier of wood for wooden ship model builders and has collaborated with Jim Roberts and the folks at Double-O Laser Services on several exciting new wooden ship kits. You can look into all this at The Lumberyard: http://www.dlumberyard.com The URL for the Armed Schooner LIVELY is: http://www.dLumberyard.com/Lively%20home.html Dave has a four-part on-line tutorial on building this model kit (which he supplies), including a nice treatise on planking. He's also part of a team working on a kit of the naval cutter DILIGENCE which will be a laser-cut true plank-on-frame model, with the various parts of each frame laser-cut, and a great deal more. I'm not certain this includes planking, however, since if your model is off 1/16" on any of its lines the way you built it, the pre-cut planking will not fit. That's one reason to persevere and learn to do it yourself. You'll take great pride in this. More help is available on a different list which caters to wooden ship modelers: Seaways' Ships in Scale magazine's Website at: http://www.seaways.com Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: JKrakow@aol.com Subject: 2 reasons not to start the Revell S-100 Not that most of us need any reason to put off building a model, however, here are two good reasons to leave the new Revell kit in the box: 1) WEM is working on an etched brass set. Judging by the parts breakdown, it looks extremely comprehensive and useful. 2) I looked over the proofs for Connelly's "S-Boats in Action" to be published by Squadron. It will feature a number of excellent unpublished detail photos of the elusive late war armored bridge boats. Definately worth waiting for. Over the weekend, I had the pleasure of seeing a built up S-100 at "Mosquitocon" the IPMS New Jersey regional: http://www.pbase.com/mailman/mosquitocon_2002 With some tweaking and the etched parts, fuggetaboutit! Cheers Dave www.PrinzEugen.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mike C" Subject: Louisville instructions Enrico, Send me your address and I'll mail some instructions to you. My address is on the box if you need any further assistance. Mike Czibovic Corsair Armada Productions -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "John Rule" Subject: White Metal kits >> A sort-of-newbie question. I've had a rush of enthusiasm and purchased Skytrex's 1:700 HMAS Sydney in white metal, I've just received it and I love it ..... (here comes the but ) but I have no idea how to assemble a white metal model kit... Can anyone point me in the direction of a good "how to" for white metal kits? << As you are new to this medium, which can be joined with lowmelt solder, I suggest heating up your soldering iron. Now touch the end of the iron with your finger until it really burns. Now scream, unplug the iron, kick the cat and open up your cyano-acrylate glue. File and clean parts to get clean mating surfaces and use superglue to join parts. You can also use it for a skin graft on your burnt finger. Failing the above try using a 5-minute epoxy. Joking aside, although technically solder can be used to join white metal, I wouldn't advise it on an expensive ship kit, unless you've had a lot of practice. Sincerely John rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: skytrex kits Is there much building, I have seen the kit @ hobbyco, but it is stated as "built" so figured it was just pretty much straight out of the box & to the display case... Andrew oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Rule" Subject: The difference between "Want" and "Need" >> This is what I mean about understanding the difference between "Want and Need". You either want it or you don't. You either need it or you don't. Pretty simple. I sometimes (always) look at a pretty woman walking by and WANT to do, well you know..., but I know I don't NEED that (like another hole in my head). That's kinda like WANTING to buy every ship model kit ever made and knowing that that is not what I NEED. What I NEED is a cold shower!!! << Wow!!! Steve Wiper!!! Philosopher or what? Now I understand. Now that I have all the ship kits and books I want, I'm told that what I really want is sex. And with a strange woman too!! Thanks for the advice Steve. The rest of your posting is very true. Satisfaction comes from getting something you want not from needing something you want. If you can't afford it,you don't need it and therefore should not taunt yourself by wanting it. Instead divert your attention to something you can afford. To get my posting onto ships. I just bought the "MiniHobbyModels" (a.k.a. Trumpeter, I guess) 1:700 Arizona today. It cost me $11.99 Canadian. Although the kit may be coarse, the picture on the front of the box is worth the price paid for the kit. Now someone with a lot of money could buy a more accurate resin kit for 10 to 15 times the price and that is their choice. On the other hand a keen and dedicated modeller can produce a very satisfying model from the cheap kit. Now Steve where can I find the alternative for $11.99. Sincerely John Rule -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Anthony Lam" Subject: 1/700 Knox class frigate Dear sir, I have this AFV club 1/700 Knox class frigate available at $14.00 pls let me know if your are interested. Thanks! Anthony -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume