Subject: SMML VOL 1603 Date: Fri, 22 Mar 2002 12:05:50 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Wheelhouse interiors 2: Re: THE GENDER OF A SHIP 3: Why is a ship called "she" 4: 1945 RN-RCN hull color 5: Mikasa color schemes 6: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark 7: Responce to Kelvin Mok 8: Color Photos & "Colorizing" 9: Re: Book topics 10: wheelhouse interiors & sad gits 11: A fun challenge 12: Fearless 13: Minas Geraes redux 14: US Naval figures in 1:35 15: Re: A fun challenge 16: Re: Why is a ship called "she" 17: 1:48 PT Boats, Anyone? 1:72? 18: Re: Prinz Eugen Stripes 19: Re: USS Fletcher 20: Re: Why is a ship called she? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Schnelleboot for sale -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Wheelhouse interiors >> Huh. Not much of a challenge in 1/72 scale. Try it in 1/700 Robert Lockie Swindon UK lunatic asylum << Huh! Haven't looked closely at our 1/700 PT-109, have you?!! John Snyder Herefordshire UK Lunatic Asylum -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: THE GENDER OF A SHIP The Dutch language also uses the masculine form for ships. However, please note that the speech police seem to be intervening on this subject. Yesterday, the respected daily shipping newspaper "Lloyds List" announced that henceforth they will be using the neuter gender for ships and will no longer refer to them as "she". The "shes" of this world, it seems, believe that ships should be "its". Cheers all, Harold Lincoln -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Rick Biesik" Subject: Why is a ship called "she" I believe that I read in Battleship Bismarck: A Survivor's Story by Baron Burkhard von Müllenheim that ether Captain Lindemann or Admiral Lütjens states that Bismarck is too powerful to be considered a she. It's been a while since I read it so I don't remember which personality it was that said it. Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mike Potter Subject: 1945 RN-RCN hull color Black-and-white photos of RN and RCN destroyers in 1945 show very dark hull paint, such that the pennant numbers were painted in white. What color was this - dark gray, navy blue, ...? Is a color photo available somewhere on the web? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Burke, Tim" Subject: Mikasa color schemes SMML'ers, I have the SealsModels 1/700 scale Mikasa kit and I'm looking for some color scheme information (including deck color). The instructions and box information is all in Japanese, so that's no help to me and there's not even a color profile on the box (a la Skywave and some of the waterline kits). If anyone could give me some ideas about the color schemes she carried during her career, or better yet, suggest any references which would give me more information about the ship I would be most appreciative. It looks to be a very nice kit and I'm looking forward to tackling it. Thanks in advance for the help. Tim Burke -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Raymond Guy" Subject: Revell 1/96 Cutty Sark Sorry who ever it was looking for copies of the assembly instructions etc, I was a bit slow off the mark! Please contact me directly I have what you are looking for and and will photocopy everything you require and mail the same. Regards Ray -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Responce to Kelvin Mok >> Fact: The colour photos were a kind of dull, probably because WWII era colour film was not as vibrant as modern colour film and time also does tend to fade the colours of the print reproductions. << Duh!!! You answered your own questions here. I did the best I could with what I had. If you looked at many other books, you would see that I reproduce images quite well, as compared with the competition. Also, I have learned through my time researching that many of these really early color images were actually lithographs of the original. This was done to keep the cost down during the early days of color photographic reproduction by many countries. Questions: >> 1. Is computer colour enhancement of those photos an acceptable practice for publishing historical pictures. Wouldn't it be a wonderful if the photos can be computer enhanced to look as if they are taken with modern high definition colour film? Except for colour no historical data has been altered. And usually the researcher has an intimate knowledge of the actual colours that cannot be conveyed in the original source. << Answer; The photos were enhanced. If you had seen the originals, you may not have made these statements, as they were very poor to begin with. I spent a lot of time working on these photos. A couple just could not be fixed. They were just too bad to begin with. I always try to keep the colors as accurate as I can when I manipulate these images. >> 2. On the same thread will it be acceptable practice to use the computer to colour black and white historical photos of ships where the colour is based on good data? << Answer; I believe that there is nothing wrong with the practice of colorizing B & W photos, as long as it is stated that this has been done. I always use the best information I know of to do this work. >> 3. The third suggestion is to use programs to improve the definition (sharpness) of otherwise fuzzy photos. << Answer; If you knew what it takes to do this sort of work, again, you would not be making these assumptions. Only so much can be done to improve the quality of an image. The old adage comes to mind. Garbage in, garbage out. There are only so many photos out there, and I dont always find the best ones, or maybe they just dont exist!!! >> If you look at medical, astronomical and intelligence imaging the things they can do to a poor image these days is miraculous. << How much do you think my $16 book on S-boats would have to sell for if I contracted NASA to do this for me??? The cost would go to the Moon!!! >> The result generates more information than the original photo could ever have provided and no one has yet claimed that the information is fraudulent although they had been manipulated. << Am I seeing the makings of a conspiracy theory here? Fake Moon landings??? >> I don't know about costs but for a start enhancing the colours to match factory colours will be a great selling point. << I did that. The cost at my level is a few thousand dollars for the equipment and hours of work. I also provided a row of paint colors along the bottom of one page. Remember that sun angle, lighting in general, and any other atmospheric condition can make the colors look "different" than they really are, not to mention a color shift due to the film development process. I put many hours into my books to provide the best that I can offer. I dont do this just for the money. If I did then my books would look like all the other half backed offerings out there, that were put together by non-ship enthusiast who do it because they need the job! I do this because I like to and have figured out how to make a living doing this. Of course I make mistakes in my books. After printing each book, I discover mistakes in every one of my books, but I take notes, and if I reprint, then I will make the corrections. Again, I do the best I can with what research information I can get hold of. So, as you can see, when I read some negative comments about something I have produced, I wont hesitate to protect myself and defend my product. I think I do a pretty damn good job and offer a great product at a very reasonable price. I think that I offer some of the best photo reproduction in my books that is comparable to the best in any book, and I do this for $12 to $16, so that they are affordable to anyone. There are 50 to 140 photos in each title. I think that is a bargain. I must be publishing these books at a good quality because I have published 16 titles and sales of all my books are in excess of 35,000 books over the last five years. Somebody likes them!!! Enough said, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: JKrakow@aol.com Subject: Color Photos & "Colorizing" Hi Kevin On my website, www.PrinzEugen.com I've posted direct scans of the color Schnellboot photos from Hugo Burger's 1943 book "Schnellboote Vor" without any retouching. On the front page, there is a color thumbnail of an S-Boot at speed. This is directly from an original unpublished wartime color print, not scanned from a publication. It has bright vibrant colors. You can see the anti fouling paint was a dark brownish red, no boot topping. As for colorizing old black and white movies and photos, I don't like the idea. It looks exactly like what it is, an artificial overlay of color over a black and white original. Plus it is one more step further away from the original document. I would much rather have the original photo and color references presented separately, or original artwork in the form of a profile or painting. NASA's remote image photographs are not really "enhanced" they are more like color photos which have been made black and white. NASA's data is gathered from a combination of spectrums that are far beyond the range of the human eye, including ultraviolet, high frequency "colors" like X and Gamma rays, infared and radio waves. Basically, the photos are produced by assigning the narrorw range of humanly visible colors to this massive spectrum. Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Doug Bauer" Subject: Re: Book topics In SMML #1601 William Rowe mentions the lack of books on UNREP....a great reference on that subject is published by the Naval Institute Press: "Gray Steel and Black Oil, Fast Tankers and Replenishment at Sea in the U. S. Navy, 1912 - 1992" by Thomas Wildenberg. The author also provides a 5+ page bibliography. Doug Bauer Poway, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: JKrakow@aol.com Subject: wheelhouse interiors & sad gits Caroline Sad gits will also require the VHF radio, the clock, and the flare pistol on the bulkhead behind the helmsman. Etched armored covers for the bridge windows could be posed open for the sad git's viewing enjoyment of the interior, using the sad git's other indespensable accessory item: the 1/1 scale penlight. Dave Krakow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: A fun challenge As part of my big BBNJ SAG diorama project, I found this image: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/images/bb-62-bbbg-DNSC8700354.JPG I am trying to identify all the ships in the image, but some are just too small, and I'm having trouble figuring out even what type they are. Here's what I have so far, listed left to right in the image: First row: USS LONG BEACH (CGN-9) Second row: ? - CFA class/type - could be Aussie (the group operated in the Pacific) USS MERRILL (DD-976) Third row: USS THACH (FFG-43) ? - Type 42? Fourth row: USS KIRK (FF-1087) USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) ? - another Type 42? Fifth row: ? USS WABASH (AOR-5) USNS PASSUMPSIC (T-AO-107) ? - Belknap class? I know the image is blurry; I've written the author of the site asking for a copy of the original photo. So, can any of you help me figure out other ships sailed with the Big J in 1986? Joe Poutre Hi Joe, The CFA does look like it could be a RAN DDG. I would hazard a guess that the "Type 42s" are actually Type 12s from Australia and possibly New Zealand as well. Look forward to a sharper picture ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: nd.ward@virgin.net Subject: Fearless HMS Fearless is the last SURFACE warship in the RN to be powered by steam. All the subs are steam driven, albeit with a nuclear 'kettle'. In my previous existance as merchant navy engineer officer, steam ships were run down mockingly, as 'white mans magic', real engineers ran the big rock crushing diesels. In a career lasting over 12 years diesels took me on many round the world trips and with only one major breakdown. How does this compare with steam experience? For those card modellers out there David Hathaway is now offering his CSS Virginia on his Paper Shipwright Homepage. Dave Ward -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "DKurtz@Ameritech.net" Subject: Minas Geraes redux Thanx to everyone for their suggestions and stories about the Minas Geraes-class dreadnoughts. For anyone who's interested, here's the best source of info/photos I was able to find on the web: http://www.warship.get.net.pl/Brazylia/Battleships/1910_Minas_Gerais_class/_Minas_Gerais_class.html Using drawings on this site as well as the Breyer book I might try putting something small together. I'd like to see that Hough book "The Great Dreadnought" but haven't been able to find it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Peter Samolinski" Subject: US Naval figures in 1:35 A friend is wondering about suitable US Naval figures in 1:35 without too much converting. Thanks! Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: A fun challenge I previously wrote: >> As part of my big BBNJ SAG diorama project, I found this image: http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/images/bb-62-bbbg-DNSC8700354.JPG So, can any of you help me figure out other ships sailed with the Big J in 1986? << Never mind! I found the original along with the caption. Here's the list: First row: USS LONG BEACH (CGN-9) Second row: HMAS HOBART (D-39) USS MERRILL (DD-976) Third row: USS THACH (FFG-43) HMAS SWAN (D-50) Fourth row: USS KIRK (FF-1087) USS NEW JERSEY (BB-62) HMAS STUART (D-48) Fifth row: HMAS PARRAMATTA (D-46) USS WABASH (AOR-5) USNS PASSUMPSIC (T-AO-107) HMAS DERWENT (D-49) Now, who's going to make a Type 12/Leander in 1/700? I'll buy three! Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Bill Livingston" Subject: Re: Why is a ship called "she" Hi Ernst, Not really the sort of question I would normally respond to, but this has been bugging me for a few days now and I finally decided to put 'finger to keyboard' (not quite as romantic a phrase as 'pen to paper' but no matter...!). I agree that the standard practice was to refer to German ships as 'she'. But I can give you an example of one that wasn't. And was probably the most famous german warship of all time. Let me quote a passage from a book in my library... "As Adjutant, your main job will be to prepare records and reports, supervise correspondence, and carry out whatever orders I might issue." After a short pause, Lindemann added: "One more thing. In the future, I would prefer to hear people on board use the masculine form when speaking of the Bismark. So powerful a ship as this could only be a he, not a she." I resolved to accede to his wish and, although I have had a few slips of the tongue, have done so ever since". There is a footnote at the end of the page which reads... "Out of respect for the one and only commanding officer of the Bismark, this rule has also been followed in the German edition of this book". So there you have it. Obviously, the above implies that the normal form of address for a German warship was in fact in the feminine as you quite correctly state, and not in the masculine as reported earlier on the list. However, there was clearly an exception. Oh...and the book? Battleship Bismark - A Survivors Story. Baron Burkard Von Mullenheim-Rechberg. ISBN 0-87021-096-3 The above excerpt was taken from page 16, at the end of the first chapter. Hope this was of interest, Bill Livingston Newmarket United Kingdom -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Bill Gruner Subject: 1:48 PT Boats, Anyone? 1:72? I have thought for a long time that a series of 1:48 scale US Navy PT Boats of very high quality might be popular. These would probably be in resin, or a combination of resin and vacuform hull, or resin/glas layup hull. Since the ELCO 80-footer has been done by Bluejacket, I would think the 77' ELCO, and 78' Higgins boats would be popular in different versions. Maybe even a subchaser. Also these might be popular in 1:72 scale. These would probably be all resin, with white metal and photoetch, or possibly even with lost wax brass fittings, as they are much more durable. I would like to get some feedback and hear about what you think, as I know some of the resin manufacturers might be interested in producing kits. Thank you, Bill Gruner Pacific Front Hobbies http://www.pacificfront.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Daniel Bauer" Subject: Re: Prinz Eugen Stripes Unfortunatetly, there are few photos of Prinz Eugen at the start of Rhienubung when Bismarck and The Prinz were traveling up to Norway. We have a few photos of Bismarck but few of Prinz Eugen.It is assumed that Prinz Eugen's stripes were painted out as Bismarck's at the start of the sortie.That being the stripes were still on the hull,but had been painted out on the superstructure of both vessels. If someone has a photo of Prinz Eugen coming into the harbor as Bismarck we could determine the time this was done. There are many questions unanswered about how both ships looked during this time. Because of time, and fading memories, we may never know the answer to everything. My father was in the Kriegsmarine, he is now 82 years old.He can only recall some details at best.He was in the U-Boote Service, he is lucky to be alive. Regards, Dan B -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: USS Fletcher >> When first commissioned Fletcher seems to be in measure 12 which states that horizontal surfaces are deck blue. Does this include the tops of her turrets? Some photos seem to indicate that the aft turret tops are dark but the forward ones have a turret top colour the same as the sides. << Hi Michael, I've seen similar photos (perhaps the same ones) too, but if you'll look also at the main deck you'll notice how light it appears too, even though it's known to be Deck Blue 20-B. I suspect what you're seeing is light reflecting off a dark color, and that the turret (actually, gunhouse) tops are Deck Blue. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Why is a ship called she? My thanks to Ernst-Bernhard Kayser for putting me straight. I tried to find out where I had seen that German ships were always masculine but I guess I must have dreamt it. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Peter Samolinski" Subject: Schnelleboot for sale I have an extra Revell-Germany 1:72 Schnelleboot that I imported, and I would gladly sell it to any American on the list for my cost $23 plus shipping. Thanks! Pete -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume