Subject: SMML VOL 1610 Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:06:37 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Scale Ruler 2: Don Leonard's wish for a 1:35 scale PT Boat 3: Re: Essex/Ticonderoga-class mayhem 4: Special Edition IJN/JMSDF Ships 5: Detail sets 6: Re: scale rulers 7: Re: Scale Ruler 8: Re: scale rulers 9: Re: 1/72 scale PT boat stuff I'd like to see 10: A Man Of your Calibre 11: Re: Scale Rulers 12: Re: Scale ruler 13: Mystery picture 14: 1/350 and smaller props 15: Re: Russian RJW colours 16: Model Clocks 17: Scale Ruler Dowloads 18: Re: PT boat kits 19: Re: S Boote/PT boats 20: Re: Scale rules 21: Scale rulers 22: DIY Scale Rules 23: Re: Graf Zeppelins 24: Re: Scale rulers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: IJN type 21 and 22 color chips -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Steve Cowardin Subject: Scale Ruler Scale rulers for ships would be among my favorite tools. Thanks, Steve. Modeling ships and sometime aircraft (cough) in Richmond,Virginia, Steve Cowardin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Don Leonard's wish for a 1:35 scale PT Boat Don wrote >> An 80' Elco PT, available in early- and late-war variants, in 1:32 or 1:35 scale (1:35 would probably be better, because a lot of aftermarket armor details like cal.50's, etc would be transferable). Hull could be vacuform, in slightly thicker plastic, as another poster referenced. Formed in two halves, the assembled hull could be reinforced with sheet styrene, plastic or brass rod, or even poured resin to make it more substantial. Chine and sheer clamps could be applied plastic strip, like on the Bluejacket kit, if sharp enough detail could not be achieved through vac-forming. The deck would probably have to be vac-formed and reinforced to achieve the appropriate camber. Torpedo tubes could be built up from brass tube and photo-etch a la Bluejacket, or more conveniently, cast in resin; deckhouses, etc from resin and sheet styrene; miscellaneous details in resin, britannia metal, and photoetch. << Not to bring up an old "bad" name, but Viking Models made a 1:35 scale PT boat. IIRC it was the PT103 class. It was hollow cast resin and the decks suffered from a concave sag. Also, IIRC, the .50 caliber MGs were resin copies of a Tamiya weapon set. I'm sure that someone will jump in here -- but I don't think the Army .50 caliber is a direct swap for a Naval version. The torpedo tubes were cast resin. I think the MSRP was $80. USD. When I saw it at the local hobby emporium - I was less than enthused about the inherent problems. There were some tread-head types who were fingering the kit with lust. It has been sold -- so someone took the bait. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Essex/Ticonderoga-class mayhem >> To add further to the Essex/Ticonderoga-class confusion, I'd like to take note of some things in James Corley's breakdown of the class, and make some notes and clarifications based on my 15 years of studying this class of ships. (Note to James: this ain't directed at you! It's directed at the source the information came from....) << These "classes" were the official breakdown by the USN in the late years of their service. Each ship of the Kitty Hawk class is an official separate class and design: SCB-127, -127A, -127B, -127C. The Midways all ended up in a separate class: SCB-101, -110, -110A. The Forrestal class was the last class built to the same SCB design (-80) but by 1990 they had all be significantly individualized and would have had different SCB numbers assigned if the DoN was still doing things the way they did in the 60s. (They might have, but I've never found them). As far as I can determine the Nimitz class all share the SCB-102 designation, but there are several subgroups which would have been split into different classes in years past, probably with a letter suffix: SCB-102: 68,69,70 - Original design SCB-102A: 71, 72 - improved magazine systems design SCB-102B: 73 - improved ballistic protection SCB-102C: 74,75 - improved hull strength SCB-102D: 76 - new island/hull design SCB-103?: 77 - if it is as radical as we are being told, the CVX will likely get the next number in the series. Of course, all of these have had major improvements in their electrical and information systems as computers advance, etc., but they are still classed as plain old SCB-102 hulls, as far as I can tell. Your other points are all relevant, I was just trying to sort them by their major distinctions based on the way the USN classified them. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Gernot Hassenpflug Subject: Special Edition IJN/JMSDF Ships "Ravendran,RasalingamKLMTS-inet" wrote: >> I did not know that Aoshima comes out with super detailed kits. According to my Japanese collegue there is also available the same ship but in 1942 (limited edition)configuration. My question is really do any one of you chaps know how often Aoshima or for that matter any other kit manufacturer come out with special editions ships. Also where can I obtail a list. << This is a hard one. The Sp.Ed. kits are not listed in the catalogues because, um, they are Sp.Ed. Also, they are only available in Japan, therefore information about them is hard to come by. Sp.Ed. kits come in different genres. Hasegawa do full-hull versions of some vessels with display stand, notably Akagi, Kaga, and the Kongo class. The also add some photo-etch here, and then they sell some Sp.Ed. kits of their cruisers and destroyers with photo-etch. The Hasegawa PE is a waste of money, it includes very few useful parts. Most is thick railings, and the few radars and antennas that are included are better served by existing after-market sets. The full-hull is worth considering though, pretty impressive. As far as I know, these are spordically available in Japan and are not once-offs. Aoshima and Pitroad have lately introduced special editions with photo-etch. These are well worth getting, for example the repair ship Akashi, or the Takao class cruisers from Pitroad, or the new Inazumi JMSDF destroyer from Aoshima. The Tone/Chikuma are not worth it though. These sp.ed. are one-offs at present, as they photo-etch has to be ordered from another company. Presumably, they will be sold again when the batch is up and the relevant statistics have been gathered by the marketing folks. As for how to get information on these releases? I suggest you find out how to get hold of the monthly magazine 'Model Art', a B5-size general model magazine with a fairly comprehensive new releases section, and also always at least on ship model article. Other than that, I can thing of Model Graphix for similar content. Accessing the company website is helpful too, if you know where to look. For a start, if it says Go Here for English, whatever you do, DO NOT PRESS THAT BUTTON :-) For example, the english page of Pitroad does not mention the 1984 New Jersey they are releasing in plastic for 3800yen this month, because it will be sold only in Japan. Tamiya of course will have a release later this year too.... Hope this helps, Gernot -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Norbert E. Onaiis" Subject: Detail sets Hi, I'm searching for resin (or white metal) ship detail sets in 1:125 scale. I have an old Lindberg "Blue Devil" destroyer that I'd like to build..I can correct the hull shape pretty easily. We have the USS Sullivans here in Buffalo, which I can use as a reference. Some of the stuff I'm planning on doing my own photoetch detail for...doors, porthole covers, hose reels, deck hatches, cleats etc. I've found a source for the quad 40's, dual and single 20's and 5" gun houses. I just haven't been able to find quad 21" torpedo mounts or any gun directors. thanks! any help would be appreciated. Nick Onaitis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: scale rulers >> Completely off any recent topic, would any of our manufacturers produce a 1/700 and 1/350 scale rule? Any of us who have been model railroaders know how indispensible this tool is << A company called Murphey's Rule made 1/700 ans 1/350 rules in metal years ago but they have not been available for quite some time. ScaleCard makes a whole series of plastic rules but I don't think I've ever seen on in these scales. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Denis Keegan" Subject: Re: Scale Ruler To Steve Wiper, That is a great idea Steve. HOW SOON can we get it? I did the paper thing a few years back and it DOES work very well. By the way, I got your S Boote Book and it is excellent. Where can I get plans for the S 10 type as in the Airfix kit? I would like to make corrections to the hull. Denis Keegan The Old Fart -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: scale rulers Let's have those rulers. Steve. Cheers, Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: 1/72 scale PT boat stuff I'd like to see Hi Dave, With regard to the toe rails on the Revell 1/72 PT-109 (et al), you're right about them being atrocious. However, in that scale I don't think photoetch is the way to go for them. I removed the cast-on toe rails on my boat and replaced them with new toe rails made up from Evergreen plastic stock. Cutting the small spacers underneath was easy using a Northwest Shortlines "Chopper", and the plastic stock is flexible enough to bend to shape. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Joel Labow Subject: A Man Of your Calibre Colleagues, Seeing Robert Swindon's post reminded me of a story that was told by I.I. Rabi in an undergraduate physics class at Columbia some years ago: The first atomic bomb dropped on Japan at the end of WWII was a 'gun-type' weapon in that the two parts of the U235 were fired together in a gun barrel to achieve critical mass. One of the plans being considered was to use pieces of 14" barrel liners from the USN BBs lost at Pearl Harbor. The problem was, however, that uranium is a very soft and malleable metal...the scientists were concerned that the rifling in the liners would file the U235 projectile down during it's transit so that it would be sub-critical upon arrival. The solution arrived at was to employ a very slender graduate assistant to crawl inside the barrel liners and, armed with a disk sander, convert them to smoothbores. This went well for a period of time, but when he left to take another position the project had to be abandoned because (you guessed it!) they couldn't find another man of his calibre. Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Math Mathiasen" Subject: Re: Scale Rulers >> This brings up a great idea, I hope!!! So. My question is. Would all of you out there in SMML'ie Land like to see a set of scale rulers that could be down loaded from the SMML site, with permission of Shane and Lorna of course, for FREE!!!!! If you would like to see this, please respond here on the SMML. If the response is good, then I will draw up a few different scales for the rulers and thy wish shall be done! << Steve Wipers' offer is great!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: JOHN CURRIE Subject: Re: Scale ruler Yes please, i would also like thank the Member who posted the Scalecalc awhile back, i find this an invaluable aid. Regards John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Lars Scharff" Subject: Mystery picture Hi, does anybody know, what is the name of the ship in the centre of this image http://www.marinai.it/ospiti/volpe/foto/32.htm? I found this picture on www.marinai.it. It was taken from Eugenio di Savoiaon the South America cruise. The Italian light cruisers Eugenio di Savoia and Emanuele Filiberto Duca d'Aosta left Napoli in November 1938, stopped at Gibraltar, Tanger, Tenerife, Dakar, Pernambuco, Rio de Janeiro, Buenos Aires, Puerto Belgrano, Magellano, San Quitro, Callao, La Libertad, Panama, Fayal and Cagliari and arrived in La Spezia in March 1939. The picture must be taken on one of this places in this period. I think she looks like one of the British build South American cruisers of the 1890s. Existent at this time were Almirante Barrozo and Chacabuco (Conway All the World Fighting Ships 1806-1905). Blanco Encalada and O'Higgins also were existent, but looked different. Non of the similar Japanese ships (e.g. Asama) was on training cruise in South America or Mediterranean Sea in this period (Lacroix, Wells, p.657). The Dutch Gelderland served as gunnery training ship from 1920-39, but I don't have photos of her of this period. Any idea ? Regards Lars -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Kelvin Mok Subject: 1/350 and smaller props >> Real blades have a sculptured appearance and are not just a flat piece of metal. This problem is not eliminated by bending a slight "cup" into the blades as recommended in the instructions. I think the proper sculptured appearance is beyond the capabilities of photoetch. This "flatness" problem is most pronounced in the larger props in the 1/350 scale. This problem would not be so pronounced on smaller props, such as a 1/700 prop for a destroyer. << I believe not too longs ago there was a post on photoetched crew figures that were given "body" with crazy glue blobs. Might it not be a solution to have really thin photoetched props to acquire a sculpted appearance by first bending in the compound curved pitch and then using epoxy or crazy glue to build up the body? Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Russian RJW colours McCully was almost certainly a colour blind. His description is a one off and has no factual support what so ever. To the best of my knowledge the ships of Russian First Pacific Squadron wore two colour schemes in succession. The first one was universaly adopted by the larger ships by the end of 1903 and was an olive GREEN overall scheme, the colour mix appears to have been 4 parts olive, 1 part soot (black) and 2 parts ochre. Once the squadron was well and trurly bottled up in Port Arthur it was decided to adopt a colour scheme more in tune with local surroundings. The hulls were still olive green but upperworks and funells were painted sandy brown or ochre. From the photos of the wrecks in Port Arthur it is clear that not all the large ships adopted this scheme. It is certain that Pobieda and Pallada were painted like this but there is a dispute if Retvizan was (one photo of the wreck seems to indicate two tone and another one tone scheme) I have also a photo of the wreck of Poltava which also SUGGEST that she might have been painted in two tones. Until (or if) firmer evidence will come to light dispute will continue. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Kelvin Mok Subject: Model Clocks >> a) wired up the circuitry to a quartz crystal and battery to make the clock work electronically, or b) assembled a photo-etched clockwork mechanism (1/72 scale, of course) to power it. << Don't hold your breath. Its already technically possible to manufacture this on a silicon chip. Motors, pumps, valves, mechanical oscillators,gear trains, fluid analysers, more and in a recent publication, a hot gas turbine. You can thunk it up they can plunk it out. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Kelvin Mok Subject: Scale Ruler Dowloads >> My clear plastic ruler just would not navigate the shapes, as they were tighter than the ruler could bend without breaking. So, in all of my massive brain capacity, came up with the idea to make my own, on my computer, out of paper. They worked beautifully!!! So. My question is. Would all of you out there in SMML'ie Land like to see a set of scale rulers that could be down loaded from the SMML site, with permission of Shane and Lorna of course, for FREE!!!!! << Thanks Steve. Actually if it is downloadable all one has to do is to print it on overhead projection transparencies. Then not only one can use the rulers on drawings by just placing it over the plan, one can also measure curves on the model as the transparency is stiff yet flexible enough. Kelvin Mok -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: PT boat kits I'm looking forward to seeing the WEM PT 34 kit. It was my Dad's boat, so it better be nothing short of outstanding, Snyder... :-} Like a lot of folks responding to this question, despite being very fond of 1/48 and larger scales for the proposed kit, I think 1/72 is probably the most logical choice. As one who builds primarily in wood, I agree with Brad, a POF or POB hull in this scale would be a pain to do well. Hard chine hulls are actually more difficult to build than round bilge types, especially when it comes to ensuring the chines are fair. I'm not real fond of "tupperware" (vacuform) hulls, especially for hard-chine types. The fiberglass option is workable as I've seen my friend Karl Kalb (Microglass) turn out very thin but rigid hulls down to a couple inches long. Bill Smallshaw's point about the 70' ELCO hulls as a basis for many versions is a very good one. The same hull was used for the ELCO PT and PTC types (which were used by the RN as MTBs and MGBs), the Canadian Power Boat Company MTB and HSL types, the the British Power Boat Company MGBs. So many choices, so little time... Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: S Boote/PT boats >> Which S-Boot is shown here? << I believe this to be a S-30 or 54 type due to the upward sweep of the fore deck abreast the bridge, which is also of the square configuration. It is more than likely a S-30 type as it has only a single 20 mm gun aft. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Scale rules >> So. My question is. Would all of you out there in SMML'ie Land like to see a set of scale rulers that could be down loaded from the SMML site, with permission of Shane and Lorna of course, for FREE!!!!! If you would like to see this, please respond here on the SMML. If the response is good, then I will draw up a few different scales for the rulers and thy wish shall be done! << Yes thank you. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Scale rulers My vote would be for a scale ruler on the SMML site that you could download and print off on paper or mylar. I use to have a pica ruler on mylar that I used to draw Photo etch. Used it to measure lengths on kits and then draw the correct lenght on the computer in picas it was great because it was flexable and when it got worn you just printed off another. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: joe.sus@att.net Subject: DIY Scale Rules In drafting supply and art stores, you can find engineers' and architects scales which have many of the scales a ship modeler might want. In english measure, the full size decimal scale (often marked "10" is in 1/1200 scale. Similarly, the "50" scale (50 to the inch) is 1/600, and the "60" scale is 1/720. In a pinch, the 60 scale can be put in an enlarging/reducing copier and zapped at 103% to get within 1% of 1/700, and the 30 scale multiplied by the same 103% to turn it into 1/350. The metric equivalents provide 1/1000, 1/500, 1/200, 1/125 (or, 1/1250). Joe Suszynski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: joe.sus@att.net Subject: Re: Graf Zeppelins AFAIK, the Germans only got their first carrier complete enough to be floated and that was the Graf. It was about 85% done at one time, but went downhill from there as it was cannibalized for parts. There was even a novel written about the sinking of the GZ. Joe Suszynski -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: GUSDOCVILL@aol.com Subject: Re: Scale rulers Steve, P L E A S E!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Make the 1/700 scale rulers!!! I too have beat myself trying to make these plastic or steel rulers bend!!! Bless you for the idea and the offer!! Grace and peace of our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ, bless you and your beloved family. Gus Semper Fi -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Randy Short Subject: IJN type 21 and 22 color chips A lot of you folks out there have Snyder and Short's original 8 color IJN chip set. We have decided to offer the two new chips separately to those of you that want to complete your set. There is ample room to add them to your existing card. The price will be $4, prefer cash, and a self-addressed stamped envelope. We will not honor requests without the sase. In the case of foreign customers, include an extra dollar to cover postage. Right now, sales are so bad that we are considering putting S&S on the back burner. We need to make a living and it will require most of our time. Should things get better financially, we will again become more active. I do think we will get Royal Navy set 3 out ok. The other sets we want to do will be at a snails pace for now. In the past we have tried to help people out with camo info as much as possible. While that is my favorite part of this whole enterprise, I will have little time for it. So I will do what I can, but it may take a while to answer your questions. We will continue to carry the excellent Classic Warships books and WR Press books, along with the White Ensign paints. All of our existing paint chip sets will continue to be available. To those of you who are our regular and faithful customers, thank you very much for your support. We are going to try to not go away. But USN3 and Modern sets will be slow in coming. We have hopes of getting some French, Dutch, and Russian information, but that too will take some time. WW1 will be probably at least a couple of years down the road. The paint jars have sold poorly also. Those that try them like them very much. But only a few have tried them. My hopes were to add a 1oz jar, but with sales so poor, that too will go on the back burner. I really don't want to see S&S go into the tank. Sharing ship info with people is one of my favorite things in life. I have met some terrific people and am much richer in experience. But now I will have to rely on other people's research, whereas I really want to do a chunk of the primary research myself. There is so much info available if we do the digging. And I find it rewarding when we do come up with a piece of a missing puzzle that we thought we would never find. But no time for that dream right now-maybe never. Randy Short -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume