Subject: SMML VOL 1632 Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 12:22:27 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Filmmaking 2: Re: various 3: movies 4: Re: Movie boo boo 5: Re: Gato class submarine in Wisconsin? 6: Re: Movie boo boo 7: Re: Western Ship Model Conference 8: Camo color information for PGM's 9: Re: tugs 10: Re: Damaging molds 11: Re: Movie Bloopers 12: Re: Warships Pictorial- Kongo class BBs 13: Partial review of ISW's HMS "invincible" 1916 14: Corny War Movies 15: SMMLies in Taiwan 16: U571 17: Re: movie bloopers - Ship Movies we'd like to see 18: Re: Damaging Moulds 19: Re: moulds 20: S-boat book 21: Re: Movie Bloopers 22: Re: movie bloopers 23: Re: Movie wish 24: Heller Hood Molds -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Rod Dauteuil Subject: Filmmaking >> Hmmmmmmmm, wouldn't this put the upraised arm on the wrong side? << That's why, IIRC, they used a composite shot. It wouldn't be as impressive to show the immigrants looking at the ass of Lady Liberty. As far as movies I'd like to see, I would love to see a film on the St Nazaire raid. But then again, we'd all be squawking about how filmmakers used a Spruance (or whatever) class destroyer to represent the Campbelltown. :) Rod -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Donald Woolley Subject: Re: various John Snyder wrote: >> The Me-262 there is an interesting case. Badly deteriorated, it was rebuilt by a guy (whose name and company name escapes me at the moment) from Texas who builds aircraft. He did it for the Navy at no cost (IIRC) with the proviso that he would completely disassemble the aircraft and accurately measure all its various parts for duplication. The reason: he's building NEW Me-262s down in Texas as 2-seater executive jets. They're to be powered with a pair of the same engines as used by the Northrop T-38. So if you one day look up and see a sight that would frighten the **** out of a B-17 gunner, don't be overly surprised. << For more information on either his restoration or the replicas, check the website: http://www.stormbirds.com/ Donald Woolley -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Michael Taylor" Subject: movies I'd like to see a new Bismarck movie, complete with state of the art CG of all the ships and decent mockups of decks and structures in 1/1 scale for the onboard schemes. Use real Swordfishes and Catalinas. How bout the Battle of the river Platt? Can I see a show of hands for a mini-series of the Battle of Guadalcanal? Non Naval (sorry) Battle of the Bulge-there are enough restored armored vehicles around. Use CG for the rest-please no M-60's or Leopards. Kursk? Wow CG me to death! One last word! Don't screw them up with all that love crap!! ; ).....Mike T (a guy can dream can't he?) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Movie boo boo I have two responses to postings in SMML VOL. 1631. First, to Alan Miller about Lady Libert's arm, If the negative were reversed. I think the Statue is pretty much in silhouette, and that item may not show. Even so, that would be an error less prone to detection, I think (and I wonder how many people know, anyway). Second, to MARK Leonard about MIKE Leonard. Oops, sorry, Mike. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: Gato class submarine in Wisconsin? >> This is another travel related question. I seem to recall that there was a Gato class submarine on display in Wisconsin. Does anybody know right off the bat where it is, and if the display/ park, is open for visitors? I'd like to plan a field trip there later this month. << OK, for the new people around here, (I should post this once a month. :-), I maintain four online lists that would be of interest to SMMLies. They can be found at the following URLs: http://www.bb62museum.org/airmus.html http://www.bb62museum.org/usnavmus.html http://www.bb62museum.org/wrldnmus.html http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/shiprevs.html The first three are lists of museums: aviation, US naval and maritime, and worldwide naval and maritime respectively. They are listed by country, state/district/province and city, and give as many details as I have about their location, hours, contact info and major displays. The idea is that if you're going on a trip, you look up the location and find all the nearby museums. I welcome additions and updates from anyone, including the museums' personnel. The last is an attempt at a comprehensive list of plastic ship models. We (it's a group effort) are trying to include every known ship model in styrene and resin, and even metal if they're kits. We also include short reviews by modelers of some of them, and always welcome more. We will take product lists from manufacturers, but no reviews, for obvious reasons. None of the lists is perfectly accurate, but we do our best, and they're free. They're there for you to use, so please use them! Joe Poutre -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: Movie boo boo Sometimes the "movie boo boos" are intentional. In THE GRADUATE, the scene on the Oakland Bay Bridge with Dustin Hoffman speeding in his car to stop Katharine Ross' marriage, the film makers reversed the traffic flow in order to get the aerial shot. Otherwise, he would have been obscured, driving on the lower deck. To get the right look in T-2, when the Terminator speeds on a motorcycle through one of the concrete tributaries of the concrete-lined L..A. River, the footage didn't look quite right, so they reversed the negative. This, however, made backwards all the lettering on the visible signs. The solution was to digitally reverse the signs only to their original orientation. The BIG question, however, is how did Indiana Jones survive traveling hundreds of miles on the outside of a submerged U-boat in RAIDERS OF THE LOST ARK? Ken Goldman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: Western Ship Model Conference I had wanted to go meet some of you guys in the Queen Mary this Sunday, but alas, I have to go to Tamiyacon in Alyssa Viejo instead on - believe it or not - business. It seems a possible producer for one of my screenplays is involved in scale modeling too, albeit winged thingies, and he wants to discuss the script there with me and my co-writer on that project. The story is a World War II Western. I couldn't figure out how to get a ship into the thing. Maybe we can insert a camel - a "ship" or the desert. Would that count? Anyway to those of you going to the Queen Mary, have a great time. Ken Goldman -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "S B" Subject: Camo color information for PGM's Does anyone know what these colors for this camo pattern are in this photo. http://www.navsource.org/archives/12/121101202.jpg I'm getting ready to paint the hull and want to get a good color match. I already have all the U.S. navy colors offered by WEM I just don't know which ones to use. Thanks Steve -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Ron Wild" Subject: Re: tugs For tugs and others, try www.banditboats.com Mailing address is 9769-6th street, Sydney BC Canada -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Damaging molds >> How on Earth do you damage a solid steel block that must weigh at least a ton? I mean certainly they are stored someplace (with the halves stuck together to protect the delicate tooled surfaces) where they would be safe. Does a forklift drop another mold on it? I was just curious how one accidentally damages as solid steel cube badly enough to also damage the tooled surface INSIDE the mold. I know a catastrophic fire would sure do it, but I can't imagine many other scenarios. << RUST..............Y????????????????????????? Human error????????????????? Do I really need to list all the possible mistakes any of us could make to cause damage to anything? Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Movie Bloopers The latest Pearl Harbor movie? Aside form the CGI effects created at ILM, that was one of the worst movies I saw last year. My wife had to keep me from walking out THREE times during that farce. Really disappointed, Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Warships Pictorial- Kongo class BBs >> I know the Kongo class Warships Pictorial has been out for awhile, but I only happened to pick it up a few days ago- and WOW! Without spending $$ on Japanese publications, these are the best photos I've seen of IJN ships. Far better than the standard photos you see over and over again in most books. Some really amazing photos- the first is a full page shot of the bows of the Kongo before being launched with workmen on the deck and on the ground that is really dramatic and illustrates the sheer scale of these vessels. That one alone was worth the $13 I payed for the whole book. The photo captions were also really top notch- very informative and detailed. Overall, best 13 bucks spent in a long long time. The other Warship Pictorials on US ships are great, but the fact that there are so few photos of IJN ships published outside of Japan, made this book so much better than the rest of the series. Great work, Steve. I can't wait for the forthcoming Myoko class book. This time I won't wait so long before picking it up! << I would like to say that I was breaking new ground with the Kongo book, but I was not. I think almost all of the photos in my book have been previously published, except one, on page 49. The top photo is one that I spliced together from the two photos on page 47 and therefore has never been published before. The photos are from places like the US Naval Historical Center, but most are from a private collector who was in the USN and stationed in Japan in the 50's and 60's. He managed to obtain copies of original photos that are quite good and kindly lent to me. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Partial review of ISW's HMS "invincible" 1916 After seeing photograph of the production stage hull of ISW's Invincible published on Steel Navy web site I wouild like to warn those planning to purchase this kit about certain problem areas I have spotted while examining the photos. Now despite incomplete state of the kit (hull only so far) the problems are real and there is no question of misinterpretation of the photos. I hope that you will also appreciate that while not terminal the mistakes are not by any means trivial or of "nut counting" variety. It isn't my aim to "slam" the kit or its producers, what any individual wants to do with information provided is entirely up to him. 1- shape of the kit's stern is wrong and needs correcting; 2- decks of both forward and aft superstructures in the kit are planked while the real ones were made of metal; 3- a bank of deck hatches attached to the rear of front superstructure and front of the rear one (sorry it's easier to show that to describe it) are reversed and attached to the wrong superstuctures -a.i. the one forward belongs aft and vice versa; 4- most serious IMO, all the net shelves are incorrect. I know that John Roberts's drawings of the ship suggest just this sort of arrangement but the photo of Invincible in my possession shows clearly that net shelves were attached a little distance below the deck level and were not overlapping it as in the kit. My references for the above is a combination of: 1- R.A. Burt "British Battleships of WWI" Naval Press Institute 2- J.A Roberts plans of Invincible in her Aug. 1914 appearance, published by Sambrook Marine. 3- a photogarph of the forward bridge area of Invincible while in dry dock in Gibraltar, receiving repairs after Falklands battle. Photo is from Imp.War Museum collection. Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Jeremiah O. Coughlin" Subject: Corny War Movies Dear Model Ship Builders, I read with amusement the bad critique of Pearl Harbor and others like it. It reminds me of the very many war movies both American and English I saw as a kid during WW-II. When the movie would be doing the love scenes we would boo, go out for some pop corn, the head, but would sit glued in our seats when the action started. We would cheer and clap for the good guys who would always win, and boo the bad guys. I especially loved the guy that caught it in the throat, blood pouring out of his mouth, after shooting down one of our guys saying "have some scrap metal yank". To me they are a light fantasy loosely based on a known time frame, but still only a movie. I have a little fun watching them, don't take them very seriously. In Pearl, the hero becomes the best student pilot, falls in love, nips over to England where he knocks off a half a dozen ME's, gets ambushed, shot down, hides in France, comes back via a fishing boat, takes a dump, sent to pearl, finds out his love has slept with another airman, organizes the defense of Pearl on the ground, continues it in the air via his radio, shots down a bunch of zero's, organizes and participates in the rescue of the trapped sailors, takes a shower, switches over to B-25's from fighters in time to help Doolittle send some metals back to Tojo, has a nice controlled crash at night, fights off a company of Nip soldiers with his .45, has his good friend/ex enemy die in his arms swearing eternal love and the promise to raise the ladies child as his own, and finally live happily ever after. Now what's wrong with that, it's the same time frames we used in our own dreams/fantasy's. We were one man armies. Let the other areas of life be serious. I did a couple of wars, hurry up and wait, months of training, days of waiting for minutes of action. Have to go now, "God is my co-pilot" is coming on the TMC channel, I love teeth on the bows of my planes. Semper, jeremiah... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Henry T. Chen" Subject: SMMLies in Taiwan SMMLies in Taiwan, Melle (Lee) and Melvin, please contact me off list. My computer crushed and I have lost your e-mail addresses.. Henry, Los Angles, Calif -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: U571 I had to chuckle with all this talk about the historical in movies and the comments of Andrew Jones who disgusted with the errors in Pearl Harbour states: ...... >> I still might have another look @ U-571 I think I noticed a few flaws... << A few flaws the whole thing is just work of fiction! Actually the Enigma machine was captured by the British, and not the US, and not from the U-571 but from U-110. The true story is recounted at: www.lawbuzz.com/tyranny/u571/u571_ch1.htm At least with Pearl Harbour they did get some degree of accuracy i.e. it was the U.S. Fleet which was attacked!!!! {:¬) Regards, Chris He tao rakau taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: RLapadura@aol.com Subject: Re: movie bloopers - Ship Movies we'd like to see One word... "Guadalcanal"! Bob LaPadura -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Starline / Fleetline Subject: Re: Damaging Moulds >> And, what of all that old Aurora tooling? Some of it is 'reported' to be gone. I just got the Polar Lights reissue of the Seaview, and it just has that feel of a kit that's been re-tooled in China from an original Aurora kit. << Hi Mike, Aurora lore has it, the Seaview as well as a couple of other moulds were 'broken' literally in a train wreck when re-locating the plant. People have been trying to positively confirm the story for years. It seems to be the truth and has been repeated from various sources as before the company went out of business, people were already asking for various re-issues, their reps cited that as the reason they couldn't. Don't think Polar Lights are claiming it's anything but a new tool taken from a mint condition kit. Pretty sure all except their original stuff has been done this way. Shame they so faithfully duplicated the kits they copied in errors, mis-matches etc. Must be a collector thing! Anyway now you can afford to build her! Speaking of which, major grumble here in Oz, why when the kit sells for about $15 US, over here, allowing for exchange rates & freight, should be about $35 ...nar try near $60! Local stores wonder why everyone is buying 'on-line' these days. Shame really, distributors are making a mint (now) & local hobby shops are closing everywhere! Oh well that's my bit...sorry! Have fun, Kevin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "graham and melanie" Subject: Re: moulds I would that seeing that we are told that they cost 100,000 $ to make they would take more care of them. I mean I brought my house I am not going to let it go to rack and ruin. graham -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: S-boat book I got my copy of Steve Wiper's S-boat book today and, well.... I really like it :-}. It's always nice to see something that is: a. done by someone who actually knows something about the subject; b prepared by a modeler who knows what is useful to modelers; c. well-balanced in its content (photos, text, and drawings); and, d. considering the wealth of information contained therein, very reasonably-priced. Unfortunately, now I'm going to have to buy some of the others... :-} Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Allan and Crystal Plumb Subject: Re: Movie Bloopers From: Kelvin Mok >> Does this happen to all of us? << Nahhh. Since I build other things than ships (anything but cars), and since I like modeling since it gives a visual dimension to history, movies almost _always_ have inaccuracies to irritate me. But, I try to keep my opinion of the details separate from my opinion of the movie. Did the details _matter_? If they use an M47 and call it a Tiger, no big deal. Even the use of modern carriers as stand-ins, whatever. Now, if all of a sudden the Japanese invade Hawaii in 1941, I might sit up and take notice... It depends on whether the details really affect the sense of the movie, or if they're just ... details. Allan "muttering 'battlecruiser!' :-)" Plumb -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: "TIMOTHY BROOKS" Subject: Re: movie bloopers OK, I'll bite. Movies re: Ships/Navies I Would Like to See Made 1. Yangtze River Gunboats. Up to the Panay and the other boats that escaped to the Philippines. Sort of an update or history picking up from The Sand Pebbles in the 20's and taking us into the 40's. Less love story, more boats and history. Throw in some of the old China Marines, too. Would be a great ending as the boats (or was it only "boat" that survived the hurricane?) sail into Manila Bay and "safety" with the entire might of the Japanese military poised to jump all over the area within the month. 2. Yep, detailed Asiatic Fleet "do and die" stuff. Of course, it would be Nimitz carriers for the Japanese and Spruance destroyers for the Dutch, and Burkes for the Brits, and...gosh, we would have to make do with Ticonderoga's to represent the US 4-pipers and Missouri for the Houston. 3. Sub stuff from the Cold War era. Of course, most of the real missions are still classified, but using Blind Man's Bluff as a base, a truly imaginative writer could gin up a good, old fashioned pot boiler. 4. Something current and decent on the St. Nazaire raid would be fun. There is something out there in B&W from the Brits that was good, but haven't seen it since the 60's or 70's and don't recall the name. Lots of action, boats, good guys and bad guys, could be done at the realism level of "Saving Private Ryan", maybe, with lots of characters. Funny, most of the other stuff seems to have been done before...no, wait, how about the ironclad brit and french gunboats (floating batteries) in the Crimea? That would interest the heck out of me if well done! You could even throw in the charge of the light brigade being observed from the deck of the hero's gunboat (before he tragically dies of some absurd accident, in the arms of his beloved who is married to the severely wounded hero of the cavalry charge, of course). British invasion of Finland? Attack on Russia in the Baltic? Reduction of Sveaborg fortress? Maybe there are hundreds of other nautical possibilities! Tim Brooks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: Movie wish Action off Samar, directed by Ron Howard, and starring Tom Hanks as Lt. CDR Robert Wicher, commanding the Samuel B. Roberts; Mel Gibson as CDR Ernest E. Evans, commanding the Johnston; and Clint Eastwood as Admiral Sprague, commanding Taffy 3. Music by Basil Poledouris. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Peter K. H. Mispelkamp Subject: Heller Hood Molds Hi: I've said it before and I will say it again: I have been informed by someone at Heller who categorically denied that the Heller Hood molds were damaged. Please feel to contact him - you can use the email link provided on Felix Bustelo's (sp??) website. Happy modelling! Sincerely Peter K. H. Mispelkamp -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume