Subject: SMML VOL 1645 Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 00:23:28 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Flags 2: DDG Decals? 3: Signals and Bravo flag 4: Partial Review 5: Re: Japanese Landing @ Wake Island 6: Re: HMS Norfolk Review 7: Re: Union Jack in Drydock 8: Re: Battlecruisers 9: Interesting items on eBay 10: Wake Island 11: Re: REVEIW 12: Airships & airplanes 13: Union Jack 14: Re: Heller HMS Victory & Queen Mary 15: USN WWII. Carrier decks 16: Tin Cans - 100 Years 17: HMS Invincible...after Jutland 18: Re: What is a review 19: Re "Union Jack" 20: Re: Dry dock flags and pennants 21: Re: Sub Chaser ceremonies -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: CokerRE@aol.com Subject: Flags With all of the talk about flags, does anyone know where I can find a contemporary Italian Naval Ensign? This is the one with the coats of arms of the four maritime republics in the center (white) panel as opposed to the national flag which for all practical purposes looks similar to the Mexican and Irish flags. Please reply off line to cokerre@aol.com Thanks, PC Coker/Charleston -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: DDG Decals? Would anyone happen to have extra decals from the Skywave/Dragon/etc. 1/700th scale kit of the Adams class DDG? I need the hull numbers "6" and the stern name Barney. I'm building one for the head of the USS Barney Association, and the kit I have only has DDG 20 and above markings. I'd be willing to pay or whatever can be worked out. No big hurry, but in the next month would be nice (I'm in NYC). Thank you, Devin -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "" Subject: Signals and Bravo flag >> The blue and white Alpha flag is the one that has the "vee" notch; Bravo is rectangular. << I used to believe the same, and even got in an argument about the bravo flag being notchless, but according to the USN, it does indeed have a notch: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/communications/flags/flags.html Scott Weeks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Kathy/Pirie Sublett" Subject: Partial Review With Ken Goldman: Enough!! Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Howard Brower" Subject: Re: Japanese Landing @ Wake Island Andrew Samuel Eliot Morison's Volume III page 247 states "The Japanese made simultaneous pre-dawn assaults with four to six landing barges containing about 50 men each and the two patrol craft..." Stan Cohen's ENEMY ON ISLAND. ISSUE IN DOUBT. The capture of wake Island, on page 33 says "According to the plan, the force would land in the dark and the two transports and patrol boats would be run aground on the south shore of Wake near the airstrip. Six landing barges would ground themselves elsewhere along the south shores of Wake and Wilkes." Further on there is mention of landing craft but nothing about type. As far as the painting one must assume that this was done well after the landing, and reflected what the military wanted the public see and not what really happened. hopes this helps some regards Howard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: HMS Norfolk Review >> BTW, I think the chances of you being flamed for your review of a Skytrex kit are very low. From my observations over the last 3 or so years on SMML and the Steel Navy message board, only reviews of ISW kits, if they are unfavourable, are likely to be flamed or discredited. I wonder why this is?? << I suspect in large part because Ted and Jon have been so supportive of the hobby and of their customers. There are a number of good companies out there, a few not so good ones, but I suspect that I would get little argument that none provider BETTER customer support!! Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Union Jack in Drydock >> I was going to submit my thoughts on this in the positive, regarding the Union Jack being flown while in drydock, so I doublechecked the pictures I have of USS Aspro on the blocks, and none of the three show the Union Jack! << The photos can be found here: http://www.navsource.org/archives/08/08648.htm What I find even more interesting about the photos id that they seem to answer questions about hull colors rather definitively!! That sure looks like the lower hull is hull red, not black - at least aft of the bow. Regards, Bradford Chaucer -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Bob Evans Subject: Re: Battlecruisers >> What is the name of the 1972 book by Peter C. Smith that you have? I would be interested in getting a copy somewhere. I agree with you about the WW1 subjects. Wouldn't an armoured cruiser like the Defence or Black Prince be a great model too! << Simon, Check out the book "Battlecruisers" by John Roberts (NIP ISBN 1-5575-098-3) 1997 by Chatham Publishing, London Great photos and a plans set in the back of the Queen Mary 1913 Bob Evans -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: paulship37@aol.com Subject: Interesting items on eBay Poland Navy Maritime History Zygmunt Gdansk ! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530393028 IRONCLAD-The Sinking & Salvage of the CAIRO http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1092590052 Combat Fleets of the World 1982/83-NICE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530366495 Orizzonte Mare Duca D'Aosta Class Part 2 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530360480 Orizzonte Mare Da Barbiano Class Cruisers http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530356248 Orizzonte Mare Immagini D'Aosta Class Cruiser http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530357442 Orizzonte Mare Luigi Di Savoia Class Cruisers http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530358230 Orizzonte Mare Capitani Romani & Etna Cruiser http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530359222 Orizzonte Mare Trento Class Heavy Cruisers http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530359560 Orizzonte Mare Montecuccoli Class Cruisers http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530359827 Orizzonte Mare Duca D'Aosta Class Part 1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530360212 SHIPS,MODELING,NELSON'S SHIPS,PLANS,ET AL,'55 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530350994 ROYAL NAVY NEW LIGHT ON JUTLAND http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530339024 ROYAL A NAVY WHO SANK THE SYDNEY HMAS http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530338909 BIZARRE SHIPS OF THE NINETEENTH CENTURY FE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530309623 BOMBERS VERSUS BATTLESHIPS http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1092976721 AIRFIX CELEBRATING 50 YEARS http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1721904911 H.M.S. VANGARD a souvenir booklet http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1530243975 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Jeremiah O. Coughlin" Subject: Wake Island >> Just a quick question... did the Japanese landing on wake in 1941, did they use row boats or Dihatsu type barges..one japanese painting shows them rowing in to shore << Dear Andrew, One source would be to rent the video "Wake Island" with Brian Donlevy, Wm. Bendix and an all star cast. When we had this 16 mm movie on our ship no one would trade for it. Just a thought, too late at night maybe. Semper, jeremiah... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: chris rogers Subject: Re: REVEIW JEEZ you guys what a loads of rubbish the guy has said what hes seen and put his point of view across so what and this to every mad jack of you have you not seen a model in a mag or on show or on a lake and said to your friend thats not right Im sure of it gone home looked in reference and said yes Im right well this guys done this and said what he's thought give him credit for that to the doubters if he's so wrong go order the photos from the IWM and the plans from Sambrook and other reference material post them and be done with it chris r oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Airships & airplanes >> On the IJ front, I sincerely doubt that the plane would be gassed up inside that hydrogen filled hull. << AFAIK the only real airship-airplane carriers were Acron and Macon, which were helium filled airships. That would have solved the gas filling problem I think. There were other problems though. The lightening of the ship when the aircraft departed would force the airship to valve off helium, which was very expensive in those days. I don't think these problems were ever really solved before the ships crashed. Pieter Cornelissen BTW does anyone know if plans for these ships are available? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "rt.rogers" Subject: Union Jack Whilst on the subject, can I confrim that the Union Flag is ONLY referred to as the Union Jack when flying from a ship's jackstaff and that this applies to both the USA and UK? Ransford "Taff" Rogers P.S What's the big deal about 4 stripes on sleeves? Three buttons always looked better!!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Colm O'Leary Subject: Re: Heller HMS Victory & Queen Mary >> In my opinion you have one of the best plastic kits ever made...have fun! << Thanks for the information Joel. I'll see if I can get both those books before the kit arrives. Might even pop over and have a look at the real thing if I get a chance. What you sugested about the wooden decks was very intresting. I was wondering if anyone had tried overlaying small strips of veneer onto a plastic deck? And if so, how sucessfull was it? But the Victory is in the future. At the moment I'm making the modelcraft Queen Mary and I was wondering if anyone has a plan for where the lines that hold the funnells atache to the decks. I've tried figuring it out from pics on the net but there's just not enough clear info in them. Colm -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Topy Yester" Subject: USN WWII. Carrier decks Dear Friends, I need your help. As far as my information are correct, the flight deck of the Yorktown class carriers were made from Douglas fir. The planks of the wooden deck were 9 inch wide and 5 inch thick and there were 11 planks between two drains. The wooden decks were stained in deck blue from '42 onwards. Can anybody please affirm, that this is correct? Do you know what was the length of the planks? Was it applied on other class carriers the same way (i.e. later ESSEX or Independence classes) or was it different on every ships. Could you please answer me on my e-mail address: topy@military.com? Thank you very much Zsolt from Hungary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: MIKE.LEONARD@customs.treas.gov Subject: Tin Cans - 100 Years http://www.surfacewarfare.navy.mil/destroyercentennial MWL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Joel Labow Subject: HMS Invincible...after Jutland Colleagues, Is the famous photo of the bow and stern of HMS Invincible protruding from the surface of the North Sea after her fatal explosion available anywhere online? Were her remains ever located and salvaged? That would certainly be an idea for a diorama that avoids all the controversy about torpedo net shelving and other midships details. Best regards, Joel Labow -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: What is a review James Corley writes: >> Are you unwilling to buy the kit you've waited for for 30 years because nobody has reviewed it? What if the 5 other people waiting for the same kit have the same opinion? Then none get sold. I sure am glad my customers do not wait for Fine Scale Modeler to get around to reviewing the latest new kit - I'd not sell anything for the first 3 months it is available~!~! << Way to many people (IMO) are prepared to spend their hard earned money on a expensive but not up to the standart kit (this is a general remarque) because they have waited for it for so long. If I were to wait for so many years for something, I would scratch built the damn thing ! Thirty years seems enough to learn the technique and at least the quality would be up to the individual model builder and not a resin manufacturer. Now, if a model is not expensive I am prepared to overlook certain mistakes and put in hours necessary to correct them. However 200-300 $ for a model is a LOT of money and I would expect it to be as accurate as it is reasonable to achieve. To provide a positive example of what I am talking about let's look at YS's Oregon and Averoff kits, now this is a company who seems to understand that buyers have a right to expect value for their money. The last sentence of your post does make me wonder how many of the customers who bought an expensive but unreviewed kit have later discovered that it isn't what they expected it to be??? How many of them will come back and buy another kit again??? How many will actually put in the hours necessary to correct it and how many will just add it to the pile of unmade models cluttering their garages??? And are those last ones a true model builders or just a a XXI st century hunters-gatherers??? I just wonder....... Regards D.P -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Rodney Lersch" Subject: Re "Union Jack" The flag flown at the bow of U.S. Navy ships is the JACK flag , not the "Union Jack". Union Jack is the British national flag. Rod -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Dry dock flags and pennants To Scott Weeks Thanks for your input. Opinions seem to favor the omission of the Union Jack when the vessel is in dry dock. As one shipyard worker put it, the Jack is removed when the bow passes the sill of the drydock. Something about signifying that the vessel is then under the jurisdiction of the shipyard and is therefore their responsibility. I wonder what is done to prevent use of the ship's heads, etc., when in dry dock ( I remember when I had my cesspool line dug up and I was replacing a section of the pipe, One of my kids used the toilet while I was down in the trench. I came up out of the trench like a rocket, only faster. It was my fault, as I hadn't "decommissioned" the bathroom, so I couldn't yell at the kid.) What means "PUC, NUC, MUC"? And what are the flags signifying these circumstances? I got the absentee pennant on the correct halyard, by sheer accident. Do you have an opinion about the commissioning pennant being flown at ALL times, as one SMML respondent has said? Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Sub Chaser ceremonies Now that my WW 1 Subchaser model is encased, I would like to invite all SMML people in the area to be my guests at a dinner to celebrate the event, at Anthony's Pier 4 Restaurant in Boston. Boy, would I ever like to so do, -------------however--------------. Franklyn Well Franklyn, you can do the next best thing and post the pictures on the SMML at "Splice the Mainbrace" ;-) Shane -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume