Subject: SMML VOL 1653 Date: Wed, 17 Apr 2002 12:02:34 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Moving models 2: Re: Moving models 3: Moving models: Attention Robert Lockie 4: Re: 1:600 Kitech Charles De Gaulle 5: Re: USN WWII. Carrier decks 6: Re: Flag Trivia 7: Re: A Decommissioning for Refit 8: Perfect Storm Tugboat 9: Re: Flag Trivia 10: Re: Dark Class 11: Re: flags 12: Re: USN tiedowns 13: carrier decks 14: Airfix Great Western questions 15: Re: Moving Models 16: Super Hornet 17: moving models & Pearl Harbour 18: Interesting items on eBay 19: Re: Flag Trivia 20: Re: Naval Flags 21: Re: Moving models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: NRG seeks warship authors and modelers -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Roll Models Online Ship Contest is now Open for Voting -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Keith Butterley" Subject: Re: Moving models Hi Chuck, Rule 1: Don't put your dog anywhere near them, trust me on this one. Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Moving models In reply to Chuch Evans, I have rarely moved a model, although I did transport my 27-inch almost finished sub shaser a couple of times, to "show-and-tell" events. I was fortunate enough to find a cardboard box that exactly accomodated the model (which was on a temporary cradle) when the model was placed in the box diagonally. I couldn't believe how perfect was the fit. I then placed the box on the back seat of my car, and supported the overhang of the box with another so it wouldn't tip forward. I was lucky again, as the box just fit between the back of the front seat and back seat upright cushion. It rode beautifully, partly due to cautious driving. Perhaps you can find such a box, or either "pad" a somewhat larger box, or cut one down to fit. I do not expect to be moving the model, now that it is encased, but if I should so do for any reason, I would to use the back seat of my car again, setting the entire case on the rear seat cushion and padding the case with pillows etc. And to be safe, I would also secure the plexiglas case to the base with several turns of clothes line. This should work in my case, as the keel is resting on keel blocks and cribbing (ala dry dock), and has two wood screws going up through some of the keel blocks and into the keel itself. Thus the hull is firmly fixed to the base, and will not bounce around. This is a bonus of this mode of mounting. A waterline model should not be much more difficult. A cradle or pedestal mounted model could present problems, depending on how it is done. An uncased sailing vessel could have its own hazards. I know of one encased sailing ship model that was transported from Massachusetts to the West Coast tied down to the spare bed of a big RV camper. If you contact Ted Treadwell at diodor@aol.com I am sure he will be able to refer you to a professional model company that successfully shipped a somewhat larger model to him by a commerecial shipper, and perhaps they can help. Franklyn -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Keith Butterley" Subject: Moving models: Attention Robert Lockie Hi Robert, At least I had some BUILT models to move. Of course now, the emphasis is on the HAD :-( Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Re: 1:600 Kitech Charles De Gaulle >> The Charles De Gaulle in 600 is great news, can you give some more information about the company (Trumpeter?). And is the quality the same as the Heller kit. << The 1:600 De Gaulle kit is not a Trumpeter kit- it's a company called KITECH. Whether or not they are affiliated with Trumpeter- I do not know, but it is a Chinese company. The kit is an (almost) perfect 1:600 reproduction of the Heller kit, with some allowances for the smaller size and motorizing. Overall quality is good, with a little clunkiness here and there, but you'll probably like it when you see it. The kit number is 08M-059. I got mine for US$28.99, and AAA Hobbies, being a distributor, charges full retail on everything they sell. You may get a better deal where you are depending on where you get your ship kits. Mike Bartel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: USN WWII. Carrier decks >> Thank you very much for the interesting info. Does it mean, that the carrier decks were stained "USN deck blue" colour (as ship decks according to e.g. MS 21.)? Could you please help me, what Model Master paint matches or is near to this colour. << Zsolt, I would use a color called "Non-Specular Sea Blue", an aircraft color. Real dark blue, with lots of black and in the Model Master line of paints. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: CDRSKI@aol.com Subject: Re: Flag Trivia >> I enjoyed all of the talk we have had about flags, jacks and pennants. Soooo would anyone like to guess which signal flag is flown during each of the following: 1. During Flight Ops. 2. Underway Replenishment 3. Man overboard. Guess them all and you win my admiration and respect. If no one gets the answers correct, I will post the answers at a later date - however I have faith in all of you to answer correctly << Mike, Flight Ops- on a carrier Foxtrot, on a helo carrier Hotel Unrep- Bravo man overboard- Oscar Jim Skowronski ABHC(AW) USN -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Steven P. Allen" Subject: Re: A Decommissioning for Refit I can think of one instance of a decommissioning for major repairs: U.S.S. Belknap, DLG/CG-26. After the collision w/ Kennedy and the fire, Belknap was decommissioned until refitted/reconstructed. Steve Allen -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Norbert E. Onaiis" Subject: Perfect Storm Tugboat The link to the Washington Times article did't function. Here's the whole article: Article 1 of 1, Article ID: 200204151112590034 Published on April 15, 2002, The Washington Times Perfect Storm tugboat rescued Calm waters are ahead at last for a beloved old tugboat that trails both history and heartstrings in its wake. The U.S. Coast Guard Cutter Tamaroa, once beached at Iwo Jima and later immortalized in the movie "The Perfect Storm," has found safe haven. The 59-year-old "Tam" has been rescued from the grappling hooks of the scrap heap and is now destined to become a floating museum. "It is a labor of love and luck, and it's hard work. But this is a happy, rare thing," said Harry Jaeger, chairman of the Richmond-based, nonprofit Tamaroa Foundation (www.tamaroa.com). He will board the ship at moorings in Baltimore Harbor this weekend with 31 volunteers from a dozen states, each helper prepared with sleeping bags and long johns to spend the night in the old berths. "We're coming with our tools, with our fire extinguishers, with our trash bags," Mr. Jaeger said. "And we have our mission cut out for us." He is not alone in his quest to rescue a historic ship. Maine-based maritime historian Andrew Toppan says there are 140 vintage naval vessels in various states of preservation around the United States, among them 34 submarines, seven other tugs, a dozen destoyers and one icebreaker. Love of an old ship is compelling - and inspiring. But it is a complicated, expensive business with few protocols, rare replacement parts and even rarer operational funds. The Tam's own journey has been perilous. Up for public auction only a year ago, the 205-foot-long ocean-going salvage tug could have easily been sold for scrap despite her four battle stars awarded for duty at Pearl Harbor, Tinian and Saipan as the World War II-era Navy vessel "SS Zuni." Then there are her five decades of search-and-rescue after she was reclassified a U.S. Coast Guard "medium endurance cutter," not to mention her Hollywood fame. In 1991, the Tam was instrumental in rescuing three crew members of the sailboat Satori off Nantucket Island in 40-foot seas with 80 mph winds - as told in Sebastian Junger's best-selling book and subsequent film, "The Perfect Storm." But difficult weather comes in all forms. After she was decommissioned in 1994, the Tam went through several owners, was abandoned and eventually put up for auction last spring as a "watercraft" by the General Service Administration. The auction took place in a lot that included seven motorcycles, 137 cars and a fire engine. The Tam eventually was bought for $62,000 by an Alabama-based maritime salvage company that brought the Tam back to operating condition. Then something wonderful happened. "A businessman bought her and decided to pass her on to us," Mr. Jaeger said. "He wants to remain completely anonymous. We took custody of her in March and eventually will have full ownership." Over the coming weekend, he and his motley assortment of former Tam crewmates, New York firefighters and sundry admirers will fire up the old diesels and "turn the screw over," documenting every moment on video. On April 27, they will return to sail the Tam to her new moorings a mile away, next to the hospital ship the USS Comfort. "Her lease is up and we've got to move her to a spot that's actually been donated close by. Eventually, we'll sail or have her towed to Norfolk and get her cleaned up in dry dock," Mr. Jaeger said. "Her real home port is Richmond, where she'll become a museum and an educational platform for the public and people like the Sea Scouts, hopefully in about a year or so," he added. The real challenge, though, is not barnacles and cranky diesels but the complicated business of fund raising and public relations. While the Tam's final journey will take awhile, other preservation project ships have not been this lucky. Mr. Tappon notes the fates of other historic vessels like the 1934 tug Comanche, which was scuttled in the early 1990s, and the 1944 minesweeper Inaugural, which sank in floods years ago. Others were doomed to scrap, despite frantic attempts to save them. There are some heartening success stories, though. San Francisco's Maritime Park boasts several historically preserved ships, now so elegant that they are used as event sites for swank weddings and corporate parties. For example, one can rent the old ferry boat Eureka - complete with a picturesque, onboard fleet of 1920s-era automobiles - for $2,000. "We've got the spirit, but we need the cash now," said Mr. Jaeger, who noted that an estimate on the liability insurance alone for the Tam is $11,000. "This is just the start of our trip." Nick Onaitis -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Flag Trivia >> Soooo would anyone like to guess which signal flag is flown during each of the following: 1. During Flight Ops. 2. Underway Replenishment 3. Man overboard. << 1. Foxtrot 2. Romeo (with Prep) 3. Oscar -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Leslie Brown" Subject: Re: Dark Class Since the response to the query on the "Dark" Class has so far been rather limited, I thought the following, although rather lengthy, may be of interest. Below is a summary of the text from an article I wrote for the UK magazine "Marine Modelling Monthly", published in March 1989. The original feature was accompanied by some photographs and drawings and I intend to include these and the full text in the next update of the website of the IPMS(UK) Small Warships Group SIG - www.brown.abelgratis.co.uk History Although the German E-boats had been fitted with diesel engines during WW2, it was not until 1949 that the development of the British Napier Deltic diesel engine had advanced sufficiently for the design of a class of patrol boats using this engine to commence. The new class was intended to achieve a speed of 40 knots when fully loaded, and this, together with the heavy engines, required the traditional all-wooden construction to be replaced by aluminium alloy framing with a mahogany skin. Design & Data Following the preparation of a detailed specification by the Admiralty, the design of the class was entrusted to Saunders-Roe Ltd of Beaumaris. The new class was to be known officially as the Intermediate Type "A" Fast Patrol Boat, and all names were to begin with the word "Dark". The vessels had a length overall of 71' 4", a beam of 19' and a draught aft of approximately 17'. Aluminium alloy was used for the frames, longitudinals, deck beams, deck plating and watertight bulkheads. The side and bottom planking were in two thicknesses of mahogany, while the stem and keel were made from Canadian Rock Elm. The gunwale and chines were also of aluminium alloy. The two 18 cylinder Napier Deltic diesel engines, each developing 2,500 bhp, drove fixed pitch propellers through V-drive gearboxes to give a maximum speed of 38/39 knots. A fuel tank containing 2,130 gallons gave a range of 330 nautical miles at 33 knots. The eight junior ratings were accommodated forward, with a mess for the two senior ratings immediately aft of this, directly below the forward gun mounting. Further aft came the galley and then the WT office and combined operations room and wardroom for two officers. This wardroom was situated directly beneath the small superstructure, which was only an open bridge for conning the boat. Aft of the accommodation was the battery, machinery controls, electrical generator and the two main engines, with a tiller flat right aft. Navigation & Radio Equipment The craft were fitted with a navigation radar, Type 974; the "cheese" aerial of which was sited on a short lattice mast directly behind the open bridge. The whip aerial on the starboard side of the superstructure fed signals to the Decca Navigator and a similar aerial to port was used in conjunction with the MF/HF radio equipment Type 619. The polemast and yard carried two VHF antennas to provide ship-to-ship and ship-to-air communications. The craft also carried a hydrophone, the sensor being on the end of a long pole. Armament In the gunboat role, a 4.5" gun was fitted forward and either a single 40mm Bofors or a twin 20mm Oerlikon was fitted aft. In the torpedo boat role, four 21" torpedo tubes were fitted, the forward gun replaced by a twin Oerlikon and the aft mounting deleted. Six Mk6 mines on chutes could be carried in lieu of the torpedo tubes and the Oerlikon replaced by a Bofors gun to fulfil the minelaying role. A mixed role was also envisaged in which the craft would carry two torpedo tubes and a single Bofors gun forward. Trials & Service The first boat was commissioned in June 1955 and used for trials. It was found that the weight of the boat had been grossly underestimated during the design, but the maximum speed finally achieved, when fully armed, was 39 knots. In July 1957, it was announced that for economic reasons, Coastal Forces was to close down and both squadrons of "Darks" were disbanded by the end of September 1957. The unfinished boats were completed, commissioned and, in many cases, put straight into operational reserve. Thus a class of vessels which had taken 10 years from conception to realisation were in service for less than one year. Regards Les Brown -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: flags >> 1) Everybody who has commented on US Navy customs agrees. And we all are speaking for the time we knew the USN - 1950s, '60s, '70s, etc. None of us claims to know for certain what the customs were in WWI, for the period you are modeling your subchaser. We are just assuming that the rules were the same 85 years ago. (Unless anybody has a 1918 Bluejacket Manual to quote from...?) << I have several photos of USS OREGON at anchor in the 1890's and it's the same, national colors at the stern, jack at the jackstaff, and commission pennant at the masthead. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: USN tiedowns >> The precise author and issue evades me (not catalogued yet), but there was a piece in Fine Scale Modeler a few years back - might even have been by a SMMLie - about making the strips in 1/72 using plastic strip. In case you think the modeller was insane, he only did a small section of deck, I think for a carrier aircraft base << Rob, That was me, Bob Santos, I only did it once, made RTV molds, and have cast them for several decks since. Bob Santos -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Robert Morris" Subject: carrier decks This is from microfilmed drawings at the National Archives for Essex class. The tiedown tracks are mostly 6' apart. There is some variation at expansion joints and elevators. The steel deck was from 1/4" to 3/4" thick. The wood was reduced from 3" normal to 2 1/2" over the thicker plating to keep the top level. Width was 6" normal,reduced as naecessary to clear fittings. Caulking was 3 strings of oakum in marine glue. Robert Morris North Benton OH USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Colm O'Leary Subject: Airfix Great Western questions I've just started on an old kit of the Great Western by Airfix and I've come up against some problems with the colour scheme. The instructions for painting the kit are vague to say the least. There's really no details about the painting of the the deck. Has anyone any information on the ships scheme? Also, I think the kit is about 1/150 so does anyone know of a company producing 2 bar photoetch railing in this scale? Colm O'Leary -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Filipe C. Ramires" Subject: Re: Moving Models Hi there Chuck, how do you move models to models shows and expositions??? Inside appropriated and conditioned boxes I guess??? That's the best way to keep them protected!!! If you still think that this is not satisfactory try an armoured box... I bet that is most efficient!!!;) Just don't put the microwave over the models box...kidding!! Regards. Filipe C. Ramires Lisboa, PORTUGAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Super Hornet http://www.westsoundsun.com/news/2002/april/0416superhornet.html -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: moving models & Pearl Harbour maybe the best thing is.....just don't move Pearl Harbour.. I managed to find a book about Pearl Harbour, cuz I have been searching for the book since someone asked oh so many many moons ago about ships coming & going around the attack... well I have not found out the first ship in P.H after the attack, I did find something about at around 8am the USCG ship Tiger had slipped its moorings & was leaving just as the last wave was leaving, cuz I think it had to track down a reported sub contact in the harbour -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: paulship37@aol.com Subject: Interesting items on eBay nautical book: The Cruiser HMS Belfast http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531309942 book: The Battleship HMS WARSPITE http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531308934 Observer's Book of Ships ~ pocket size book http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531291021 THE TRIESTE US Navy's First INNER SPACE SHIP http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531251756 US Navy Battleships-WWII Navy-USN-Iowa Ships http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531249490 Scottish Naval History-Lord Nelson-England http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531247925 TITANIC MUSEUM EXHIBIT BOOK http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531244078 Piers of the Isle of Wight http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1531178890 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "David Ian Moore" Subject: Re: Flag Trivia >> I enjoyed all of the talk we have had about flags, jacks and pennants. Soooo would anyone like to guess which signal flag is flown during each of the following: 1. During Flight Ops. 2. Underway Replenishment 3. Man overboard. Guess them all and you win my admiration and respect. If no one gets the answers correct, I will post the answers at a later date - however I have faith in all of you to answer correctly << Flown Singly as International meaning Flight Ops - Flag Foxtrot -Red diamond on white Man Overboard - Flag Oscar yellow\Red diagonal RAS- Flag Romeo -yellow cross on red. (flown on side respective lines/hoses to be passed) Flown at masthead indicates ready duty ship. RAS -Fuel/Ammo - Flag Bravo- all Red Burgee Also indicates gunnery practice on appropriate side flown Note on the above flags Flown at the DIP means - am preparing to Closed up - indicated action underway Hauled down - indicated action completed The same flags therefore have different meanings a. when flown after the Emerg Pennant (red checkered pennant) b . when flown at dip or closed up,( ie different heights ) by vessels operating together c When preceded by the ANSwer pennant (red/white stripes)and used in a 2,3,4 flag or greater group hoist their meaning will be that of the individual letter rather than the international meaning. d when used as a part of a 3-4 flag group hoist (without ANS)the flags represent a non international code group requiring a code book for the time period/service associated, From BRCN 3038 1963 Signalman TG1 Regards Ian -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: Re: Naval Flags Rick H. As a matter of fact I do have a 1918 Blue Jackets Manual. Strange as it may seem I can find no reference to the wearing of the colors in the book. I did find a couple of interesting things though. Naval Stations hold morning colors at "sunrise", you are supposed to salute the national ensign each time you enter the quarterdeck (not on duty, not working there--KEEP OFF), and for the model builder--stay off the turret tops. Roy -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Russ Smith" Subject: Re: Moving models Chuck, When, I moved to Florida in the seventy's I wedged the models in cardboard boxes with styrofoam strips between them that were no higher than the main decks. This worked fairly well. I made styrofoam pillers to but the pillers shifted and I lost some masts that I had to rebuilt. When, I moved again in the late 1980's I again packed the models this way but on a single level. I lost a few barrels on casemated guns on some battleships but the entire collection of 250+ at that time was repaired and refitted within a couple of days. Good luck with your move Russ Smith -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: NRG seeks warship authors and modelers The non-profit Nautical Research Guild (NRG) is very interested in expanding its coverage of ships employing steam and ships constructed of iron or steel in its quarterly publication, the Nautical Research Journal (NRJ). This expanded coverage of "Steam & Steel" vessels will include warships of all nations and all eras. The NRG membership is growing and more Guild members are asking for these types of articles. The Guild would like to eventually see a 50/50 mix of "Sail" and "Steam & Steel" in the Journal, and this goal is dependent on the interest and participation of the warship modeling and writing community. I'm in awe of the vast amount of talent out there and would like to see more of it in the Journal. Current NRG members whom you might recognize are Dana Wegner, Curator of Models for the U.S. Navy (who has written many articles for the NRJ in the past); Robert Sumrall, Curator of Models at the U.S. Naval Academy Museum and well-known author (who has made presentations at NRG conferences); internationally-known warship modeler Don Preul of J & D Productions, who was recently appointed Secretary of the Nautical Research Guild (whose marvelous models have appeared in Model Ship Journal magazine, FineScale Modeler, The Mariners' Museum, and the Wisconsin Maritime Museum at Manitowoc); and Gary Kingzett (builder of exquisite pre-dreadnaught warship models (whose work has appeared in FineScale Modeler magazine). Some of you may have seen my 1/192 scale model of the World War II FLETCHER class destroyer USS KIDD in the pages of Seaways' Ships in Scale and FineScale Modeler magazines, and some may have seen it at the Mariners' Museum competition in 2000 and the Wisconsin Maritime Museum at Manitowoc in August of 2001. As a "Steel Navy" and a wooden "Sail" modeler, I've learned so much from the Nautical Research Journal in the years I've been a member of the NRG that I encourage others to take a fresh look at membership in the Guild. I'd also like to see some of the great modeling and writing talent which exists in the warship modeling community participate in writing for the Nautical Research Journal. And, although membership in the NRG is not a requirement for submitting articles to the Journal, I think you'd be missing out on a great value. As a recently appointed Director of the Nautical Research Guild, one of my goals is to make membership in the NRG an even greater value for the "Steam & Steel" modeler and author. If you would like to contribute to the Nautical Research Journal, you can contact the editor, David Blanchard, at: windrose@midcoast.com, or by mail at: David Blanchard, Editor Nautical Research Journal 87 Pearl Street Camden, Maine 04843 Phone: (207) 236-4793 Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis IPMS/USA #3345 (http://www.ipmsusa.org) Nautical Research Guild (http://www.naut-res-guild.org) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Brent Theobald Subject: Roll Models Online Ship Contest is now Open for Voting Howdy! We have received 16 great entries. I would appreciate it if you would stop by, take a look, and cast a vote for your favorite ship. http://www.rollmodels.net/contest/dd-341/decatur.php The winner will receive the USS Decatur from Iron Shipwrights. It would also be interesting to hear what other models, detail sets or references you would like to see offered as prizes in the future. Please visit our online catalog: http://www.rollmodels.com Thank you! Brent -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume