Subject: SMML VOL 1654 Date: Thu, 18 Apr 2002 01:53:12 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Canadian Ship Commissioning 2: Re: moving models 3: Re: Flag Trivia 4: Re: Flag Trivia 5: Re: Ms 31/5P 6: Decommisioning for refit 7: Re: Flag Trivia 8: Re: USN Tie Downs 9: Re: What was the color of cinnamon in 1904? 10: Romania to continue with ex RN Type 22 figates 11: C.G.C Tamaroa WMEC-166 12: Re: Elegant museum ships 13: Re: moving models 14: Re: Moving 15: USS Skipjack SSN-585, colours and details needed 16: Long Live The Tam -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMML site update -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: PT 330 Camouflage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Darren Subject: Canadian Ship Commissioning Canadian Navy Commissioning is very similar to the USN, it is basically a ceremony that involves flag raising, logs, start of crew rotations and pay roll (very important!). The bottom line, a ship is placed in commission when a Captain(CO) places it so. Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Darren Subject: Re: moving models To successfully move models you need to do the following, in a small car place a wife, kids, a dog and several delicate models. Isn't that how it went Keith? In my experience, a case is the best thing to move a model in. If the model is not in a case, next best is secured to a base, then the base can be secured to the bottom of a box. Baring that, the model needs to be secured and the best way to do this is, I've found, is to build cardboard supports that hold the model from all angles using a hot glue gun to secure the cardboard to the bottom and side of the box, but leaving the model simply held tightly by strategically placed cardboard pieces. Styrofoam, cut into appropriate sizes and shapes also works well in some cases. HTH Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Darren Subject: Re: Flag Trivia >> 1. During Flight Ops. 2. Underway Replenishment 3. Man overboard. Guess them all and you win my admiration and respect. If no one gets the answers correct, I will post the answers at a later date - however I have faith in all of you to answer correctly << Mike, I wasn't going to answer this, but then decided I don't win many contests and this is an easy one because like Duane I produce flags and have done some research. 1. Flight ops - F - white with a red diamond ( H is for helicopter ops - red and white split vertically) 2. Underway replenishment - R - Red with a yellow cross 3. Man overboard - O - Red and Yellow split diagonally. : ) Darren Scannell -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: JohnVCP@aol.com Subject: Re: Flag Trivia Here are the signal flaggs for the following: 1. During Flight Ops. Two blocked "FOX" 2. Underway Replenishment "Romeo" 3. Man overboard. "Oscar" Note: In the Coast Guard - the dunny used for man-overboard drills is always called "Oscar". John Heasel USCGA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: Ms 31/5P >> The patterned scheme was to be applied to all vertical surfaces, with all horizontal surfaces in Deck Green 20-G. Some boats did carry the pattern onto the decks, notably the Higgins boats. Unfortunately the book does not include drawings of the plan of port sides, so maybe there was insufficient space to do so - << I can't remember (senior moment?) why the port side wasn't included in ACF V2. At any rate, I did do a drawing for the port side and included it in the instruction booklet for BJ's 80' ELCO kit. I don't have a scanner, but will see if I can get a scan and upload it. As usual, keep in mind that this is only one version of the measure and it probably varied among boats. Generally (there are ALWAYS exceptions), ELCO decks were solid color, while HIGGINS boats tended to carry the side patterns over the deck. However, I have an original color photo of a boat in the 540 sequence (can't read the last number) taken at the ELCO plant that is in 31/5P and it appears (repeat APPEARS) that the pattern carries over onto the deck. It's a side view, so it's hard to tell. Al Ross -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Jim Mc Subject: Decommisioning for refit USS Pegasus was also decommisioned in 1986 for refit. We were told in no uncertain terms that we would NOT be plank owners upon recom. It was way over this E-4's head as to why, but I was under the impression that it had to do with budgetary issues. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Flag Trivia To Jim Skowronski, Mike Leonard, Ian, & Mark Hoffman - Bravo Zulu to you all - not only guessed them but also good descriptive commentary on the proper use. That is the one thing I always enjoyed was watching the signal flags - long story about the USS TOWERS and her Lone Ranger flag - flew it during UNREP breakaway, accompanied by the "William Tell Overture" over her PA (1MC) system - great effect at night!! Mike Donegan NAVYDAZE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: CaptainOD@aol.com Subject: Re: USN Tie Downs Both Bob Santos and I did articles on this for FSM. It was a while ago, don't remember the issue, but it also appeared in the FSM book "Scale Model Detailing" which I think may still be available. Bob Santos also had a feature in it on his USS Massachusetts. Bob O'Donovan -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Kathy/Pirie Sublett" Subject: Re: What was the color of cinnamon in 1904? I just went back to read McCully for about the tenth time, and he says, as I'm sure you know, "Battleships and cruisers were painted a dark gray or cinnamon color which looked almost black in the shadow..." (USNIP ed. page 96). On page 194 of the same edition, he mentions the cinnamon color of the TB further camoulflaged with white. I have puzzled over this considerably. In the absence of evidence there was a dark gray called "cinnamon" in 1904, I think McCully, who was a scrupulous observer in my opinion, meant to say "Battleships and cruisers were painted EITHER a dark gray (we know they were painted a dark green - don't we?) OR a cinnamon color (which looked almost black - dark brown?) when it weathered. (The wonderful Nautical Research Guild article on late 19th century and early 20th century colors by Eirik Ronnberg has nothing that is called "cinnamon"- although there is on plate 3A a color called "rust" which would fill the bill) If that isn't what he (McCully) meant then I think his notes are just garbled. It is some comfort that DP is as puzzled as I am. Pirie Sublett -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Romania to continue with ex RN Type 22 figates Romania's government has agreed to the proposed acquisition from the UK of the former Royal Navy (RN) Type 22 Batch 2 frigates HMS London and HMS Coventry. The Romanian Ministry of National Defense sent a letter of intent to the UK government in March to confirm its intention to proceed with detailed negotiations for the acquisition. Plans call for both ships to receive major modernisation refits inRomania, which is likely to include an upgraded command system, new guided weapons and the fitting of a medium-calibre gun system. Details of UK and Romanian industry participation are still being discussed, with BAE Systems leading the negotiations as prime contractor designate for the sale. A UK MoD spokesman said: "The Romanian government has approved the acquisition in principle, and we have now received a signed letter of intent. Detailed negotiations will now commence, with the current aim being to finalise an agreement towards the end of 2002." A Romanian delegation first visited the UK in early 2001 to discuss the deal, with a UK team making a reciprocal visit last June to continue talks. Further discussions followed in September 2001. Acquisition of the two Type 22 Batch 2 ships would support Romania's NATO Membership Action Plan and provide the country's obsolete navy with its first modern surface combatants. As well as affording a huge leap in capability, the two 4,200-ton frigates would enable the Romanian Navy to achieve a far higher degree of integration and interoperability with NATO forces operating in the Black Sea and Mediterranean. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Robert Leonti Subject: C.G.C Tamaroa WMEC-166 To all, The ex Navy Zuni ATF-95/ ex Coast Guard Cutter Tamaroa WMEC-166, is now sitting in Baltimore Harbor awaiting it's move to Richmond Virginia. She has been purchased by an anonymous investor who will make an education center of her at Richmond. The move will be accomplished by an all volunteer crew of ex Tamaroa vets as well as other ex Navy and military personnel. This Saturday and Sunday (4-20/21) approximately 55 volunteers will meet and stay aboard the "TAM" for a weekend of orientation. This will include a thorough check of all systems including propulsion. The four massive 12-278 Detroit EMD's will be started and the shaft will be tested at the dock. The actual move may occur the following weekend and is expected to take two days, one day run to Norfolk and the next up the James river to Richmond. For more information go to www.tamaroa.org and follow directions to weekend orientation for the crew list etc. I will be there, 32 years after my discharge from the Goast Guard. I served my entire enlistment (6/66 to 6/70) as a QM aboard Tamaroa, and am as excited as one can expect. Finally an historic ship has been saved!! Capt. Bob Leonti -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Duane Fowler Subject: Re: Elegant museum ships >> San Francisco's Maritime Park boasts several historically preserved ships, now so elegant that they are used as event sites for swank weddings and corporate parties. For example, one can rent the old ferry boat Eureka complete with a picturesque, onboard fleet of 1920s-era automobiles - for $2,000 << Elegant ships? At Hyde Street Pier San Francisco Maritime National Historic Park? Do we have the same place in mind? While the Balclutha (a iron sailing ship) is in OK condition, the C. A. Thayer (a wooden hull lumber schooner) is only passable and most of the other ships are in serious states of disrepair. The Eureka (a sidewheel ferry with a single piston steam walking beam engine) is decrepid. The paddle wheels are completely rotted away below the water line, and the wooden sides are crumbling from dry rot. Several portions of the deck are unsafe. With proper funding the ships would be a great colection of turn of the century commercial vessels but no administration since it was a state park thirty years ago have seen fit fund it properly. San Francisco has many fine maritime resources including the SS Jeremiah O'Brien (liberty ship), SS-383, the USS Pampanito (Balau class submarine), across the bay CV12 the USS Hornet (Essex class carrier), and in Richmond the SS Red Oak Victory. Unfortunately most of the ships of the San Francisco Maritime NHP are not up to these standards. Best regards, Duane Fowler -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: moving models I have had to move models several times, almost all with good results. The most difficult was moving a Revell Arizona from Philly to Atlanta. This was done by the movers, not me (most times I've moved them myself). They wrapped the entire model very loosely with multiple layers of bubble wrap, then placed it in a box wedged with paper. This box was then placed on the very top of a stack of boxes, marked 'DO NOT TIP'. It arrived without the loss of so much as a flag staff or yard arm. It's a lot easier if you have cases. The model is then fixed on its stand in a case, and the case is then packed. Ted Tsaltas -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Steve James" Subject: Re: Moving G'Day All, I haven't tried this method for interstate moves but for local moves you can try putting a towel folded into a series of ~~~~~~ S's on their side which gives troughs which holds the hulls well and as long as the material isn't touching the masts etc it works well. You just adjust the towel until its snug against the sides of the box & ship. Cheers, Steve. PS: Hide your car keys car after you have just loaded up the car for a "models only run" because your wife may want to drive your sister to the shops and she might jump into the front seat and not notice the 1/28th scale Camel that took about 40 hours to rig and complete................... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Pietro_Caltabiano" Subject: USS Skipjack SSN-585, colours and details needed What is the right colour scheme for the USS Skipjack SSN-585 ? Revell suggest black hull and grey superstructures, but I found photos of models painted all black or also red and black. And is there an article about how to improve the Revell kit? Thank you all, Pietro -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Long Live The Tam Thanks for the USCGC Tamaroa article post--I couldn't link to it and am very interested in this old cutter. When a New York city tugboatman called to say what deplorable condition she was in last year, it was enough to get my blood boiling. He was sure this cutter would be lost to the scrappers. We went ahead and published an article about her role in The Perfect Storm but there's nothing like walking the decks for an appreciation of the good work this ship performed. There's a lot written on this forum about ships that spent their careers blowing other men and vessels out of the water. Nice to see a humanitarian salvage tug and rescue vessel receive recognition. Long live the Tam, Victor Baca MODEL SHIP JOURNAL -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mistress Lorna Subject: SMML site update Just a quick update with a very Canadian and French feel to it. Hope you enjoy it. A new Mainbrace Gallery for Keith Butterly has been added as well as another stunning model from Jim Bauman. Added a new French page to the Reference section with the following: Georges Leygues and Jeanne D'Arc Added the following to the Canadian Reference page: HMCS's Algonquin, Haida, Halifax, Regina, Winnipeg and the RCMP Schooner St Roch Archives 1599-1654 added Cheers Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: PT 330 Camouflage >> I'm looking for some additional information on mid-war PT Boats like Pt 330. As far as I figured out, the boat was painted in the MS 31/5p scheme. I only found a starboard view of this scheme. Does anyone know where I can find a port side and a deck view? Does the camouflage extend on the deck? In which colour should I paint gun mounts and other smaller parts, like the interior of the 50. cal. turrets. Which of the two greens was used as the base colour? Ocean green or navy green? Which version of these colours where used? On the S&S paint chips I found the original colours and a revised one. << Hi Martin, "United States Navy Camouflage Schemes 1943-45" by Floating Drydock has MS 31/5p and includes port and starboard sides, deck, bow, and stern views. We have 2 or 3 copies in stock in our pre-owned books. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume