Subject: SMML VOL 1661 Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:23:17 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: PreDreadnought Scales 2: Re: Looking for a good Haze gray 3: Re: Royal Navy Ships 4: Re: CVL books 5: Re: British liner Orontes 6: Re: Few thoughts about the scale 7: My thought about scale 8: Size matters! 9: 1/96 ladders 10: Re: British Ships 11: USS Hornet model article 12: Re: CVL book 13: Re: Dark Class postings Thanks -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Re: PreDreadnought Scales If you want to specialize in predreadnoughts, perhaps 1:400 or 1:500. Maybe someone could start a line of resin kits exclusively for predreadnoughts in one of those scales. I still like 1:700 because they're not THAT small in that scale, and you can still build up a nice fleet. Besides, the best selection is in 1:700 scale. Mike Bartel IHP http://ihphobby.tripod.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "David Ian Moore" Subject: Re: Looking for a good Haze gray Reply to PWesty 1 After several years of trying unsuccessful mixes of testors acrylics or humbrol oils and without the proper FS # for haze grey at the time, the best haze grey match I have found came from a model railroad reference. and was ordered by my local hobby store. The FS number is said to be FS26270 which is gloss ,or FS36270 for flat.which may have a tetors match but doesnt look right. The best match is Pollyscale #505330 haze grey 5-H which literally blues up as it dries. As it is water thinable it is great for either brush or airbrush. 2 I am also seeking info on the colours used on the 2 tone mottled camouflage used on the USS Marathon She was an ashville class PG from 68-76 and I suspect the colors may be for vietnam experience as it looks like an dark green and mud brown. There is a pic of this scheme on Navsource under patrol craft PG -Marathon. Thanks Ian Moore -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Royal Navy Ships Dear Mr Gus. I have the feeling that you do not really understand what it is that you have asked for. You request in one instance the rig arrangements. For each of the ships on your list you would have to be supplied with a DETAILED rig plan. I happen to have a rig plan and a W/T rig plan for the Ajax but as you do not mention the appearence date of the model I do not know wether or not these would be of use to you. You list the Suffolk; as built? As in the thirties? As in the fourties? What??? Would suggest that you begin to get more specific as to date of appearence, this will help people with their responses but I believe that you may be directed to several publications even though you do NOT wish this. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: CVL books >> I saw the new hard back CVL book from the Naval Institute Press. As a modeler (I claim), I am interested first in pictures. I found the book really disappointing and decided not to pick it up. (Saw it at Barnes & Noble) My ulterior motive was to get some additional info about the 1950 update on the Cabot. No joy. A paragraph of text and no pictures. I'm expecting Mike Smith's "In Action" book from Squadron to be much more valuable for modeling. << Actually, this book is from Nautical & Aviation Publishing Co. of Baltimore, MD. It is very similar in many respects to their previous publication on the Essex class carriers. It is mostly text of a technical nature, with only a few photos and drawings. I would say that the text is very informative. I do recommend this book for that reason. If you want photos of a particular USN vessel at a specific date in time, then you really only have one choice. You must go to various archives and locate them yourself. Once in a blue moon someone like myself, or Raven, or other warship authors will do a book on a specific vessel, or class of vessels, but considering the number of ships built, that's only a drop in the bucket. The two best places to research are the US Naval Historical Center at the Washington Navy Yard in Washington, DC, where you must now call 30 days in advance and get clearance to get on base, or the National Archives in College Park, MD, which is inside the "Beltway" in the Washington, DC area. Reproduction cost at the USN Historical Center are high and there are no self serve copy facilities, but they are a gold mine of a resource. The National Archives, one the other hand is also a gold mine of information and they have great, very inexpensive reproduction costs with a good number of photo copy machines. Steve Wiper -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: British liner Orontes I can send scanned images of the late Reg Carpenter's 1:1200 model to WILTONDILLY however the system does not recognize the address. A picture of her can also be found on p 16 in Kludas GREAT PASSENGER SHIPS OF THE WORLD VOL 3. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Rule" Subject: Re: Few thoughts about the scale >> The more I think about it the more I am convinced that 1/700 scale while appropriate for WWII and even WWI subjects is quite inadequate to do justice to pre-dreadnoughts. I am not a big fan of 1/350 since having any sort of collection in this scale would probably require a purchase of separate building just for this purpose. So what scale should be the best if you still want to take an advantage of PE sets available on the market??? I think 1/400 seems be the best, but would be interested in opinions of others. << It hardly seems worth the bother. There isn't a vast difference in scale between 1:350 and 1:400. You would need to build 100's of models before the space consideration became a factor between the two scales. Are you such a prolific builder? If you live in a closet, choose 1:2400. A bachelor pad 1:1200. A regular home !:700, a large home 1:350 etc etc. Or if you live in my house don't build in any scale. There are too many unmade models taking up all the space. Sincerely' John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Ron Hillsden Subject: My thought about scale One of the unfortunate things about ship modelling is the large number of scales used by manufacturers and modellers. The model aircraft folks are a bit luckier in that 3 or 4 scales cover most of the models and accessories, so it is more likely that they can get what they want in their chosen scale. Manufacturers of ship models and accessories have to decide what scale to use. Hopefully, we will see more standardization so we can get more models and display our models all in the same scale to illustrate the comparative sizes of different ships. Manufacturers are going to follow the money - I.e. they are only going to produce what they can sell. I urge new modellers to select they most commonly used scale. Manufacturers will produce more in that scale if more people buy it. As far as the example given, the difference in length of a 350 foot ship in 1/350 or 1/400 is 1.5 inches or 4 cm if I did my math right. The difference isn't material to me, so I would go with 1/350. Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada flags: http://members.shaw.ca/modelflags/ club: http://members.shaw.ca/VMSS/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ron Hillsden Subject: Size matters! Yes it does, see BECC's recommendation for flag sizes on different models.... http://members.shaw.ca/modelflags/tips/flagsize.html Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada flags: http://members.shaw.ca/modelflags/ club: http://members.shaw.ca/VMSS/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: JAGURNUT@aol.com Subject: 1/96 ladders Need a Photo-etch source for ladders. I want to install a the ladder for the mast and also other areas on the ship. Thanks, Don Young -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Bill Livingston" Subject: Re: British Ships Hi Gus, I know you were looking for someone to help out on the details you were looking for, and can understand the reluctance to spend a fortune on reference material for each ship. It can be costly....I know! To be honest, in order to help you, someone would need to scan a few pages from each reference of choice and email them to you from references they had already bought for themselves. To spend time trying to describe the details you are looking for would be a waste of time and ultimately of very little use. You will need drawings and photographs. That means good references. I suggest you pick up the Profile Morskie books on Ajax and Warspite. The text is in Polish, but given that most of each book is made up predominately of drawings and photographs, it really isn't much of an issue. These books are very, very, cheap and are readily available. They will give you more useful modelling information than many books on the subject costing far more. I also have a set of plans for Ajax, which cost me around £10 or so, to supplement information in the PM book. You may not want to run to these, but really, with the amount of work you are likely to put in time wise, you may think it well worthwhile. Frankly, I think it is well worth you spending a little money on these. And if you really want to do it on a budget why not try to get them from the library? (Most libraries will order books on an inter-library service, if they don't have them available themselves). Failing that, you could always buy them and then sell them on eBay once you have finished with them. The way things are going there you may even end up making a profit on them!!! As far as colours are concerned you will need to let us know what period you are modelling. Ajax for example was in AP507c during the Battle of the River Plate, but them wore 'Alexandria' type camouflage later when back operating in the Mediterranean. You could do a lot worse than look at Felix Bustelo's Ajax now on ModelWarships.com (transferred from Felix's own site a week or two ago). Excellent model showing Ajax in dramatic form....! Some great hints on building and improving the Airfix kit too... The cockpit green colours probably refer to either corticene or linoleum on the decks. If you got to ShipCamouflage.com site you will find the Snyder and Short colour chips with basic colours for these finishes. The cream is no doubt a suggestion for the teak decks. Finally, I suggest you ask questions as and when something specific comes up.....expecting someone to answer the question as you put it is asking a lot. There would be hours and hours of work. And most of us have our modelling time squeezed by family and work pressures enough as it is! Just ask as you go.....all of us will try to help. Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: raisingirl@mindspring.com Subject: USS Hornet model article hello all.... Bill Michaels wrote: >> I'm confused about the USS Hornet model posting -- I suspect some key details were mis-typed,...... << In more ways than one. There are lots of errors in that article. The one that made me choke is that Gwinnett County, GA is not "just across the SC-Georgia border" -- it's near Atlanta, probably closer to Alabama than SC. This is the kind of stuff I flunk students for doing -- you owe it to your readers to get it right, and there's absolutely no room for intellectual laziness in journalism. Unfortunately, there's a ton of it out there, committed by people who are supposed to be "professionals." (And double-shame on the editor -- if there WAS one -- that lets this kind of stuff slip by!) About the model, if it's the same model that's been on display at the State Museum since '92, I've seen it a few times, and while it's a nice piece of workmanship, it's not the greatest model I've ever seen. It looks foreshortened, the same way the Glencoe SS United States is about 1:350 in beam but 1:400 in length. I mean, I can't (and won't) knock the guy's intentions, and I concede that he probably didn't have the best source material to work from, but it ain't exactly a Gibbs & Cox model, if you catch my drift, the way the article almost makes it sound. jodie -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Marc Flake Subject: Re: CVL book I just finished reading the Squadron CVL in action book. I think modelers will find it very useful. Lots of great pictures, port and starboard views of the camo schemes used, and some heart-breaking shots of Cabot being torn apart down on the Gulf Coast. The text has a discussion of how the CVLs came into being, a section with a brief history of each carier and another section with descriptions of the battles they participated in. Mike, regarding Don Greer's artwork, some of it looks almost "computer assisted," particularly the two on the back cover. What do you know about that? Marc Flake -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Simon Wolff" Subject: Re: Dark Class postings Thanks Hi y'all!! To those who kindly responded to my request with information and generous offers of information, thank you very much!! Simon Wolff "from a defunct former British colony" -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume