Subject: SMML VOL 1665 Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 00:22:24 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Some thoughts on Scale 2: thoughts on scale 3: Re: Questions... 4: Re: Questions... 5: 1/32nd Scale U-Boat 6: Scale: HO, what's with that? 7: Questions...(HMS Hood) 8: England Help 9: Re: news 10: Re: Cartridge Paper 11: Re: Questions... 12: Re: Questions... 13: Re: Questions... 14: Re: Questions - HMS Prince of Wales 15: PoW comouflage -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Joseph W. Reyna" Subject: Re: Some thoughts on Scale >> Sorry guys, in my humble opinion 1/400 rules - especially for WWII ships. Ever try putting a 1/450 or 1/350 ship beside a 1/400? It just doesn't work. A 1/450 Missouri looks much to small (silly?) beside even a 1/400 Yamatoor Bismarck. Overall, you can still get more/convert more WWII warships in 1/400 than 1/350. That may change in time but I doubt that I will make the move. I own over 100 ships of WWII in 1/400 and it will take a very long time for the selection of 1/350 scale injected ships to even come close to this. I say let the resin guys keep 1/350. << Let me second Peter's comments - 1/400 is not a dead scale, as the recent 1/400 Monogram ENTERPRISE reissue illustrates, coupled with the Kang Nam 1/400 MISSOURI and NEW JERSEY, not to mention the plethora (RIP Howard Cosell!) of 1/400 scale submarines, torpedo boats and destroyers by Mirage. Then there's some wonderful 1/400 scale modern Italian navy warships (in resin, no less!), and the great kits of L' Arsenal (breathlessly waiting for my BEARN carrier!). And those are just the more recent kits. If someone would issue some modern US Navy destroyers/cruisers in 1/400 scale, I'd be just about the happiest camper! At least, that's what we think down here in our little Conservative outpost in the People's Republic of Southern California. Joe Reyna, aka ShipwrightHobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: thoughts on scale I just love (hmm maybe I shouldn't say that infront of those tuff burly members of this group,lol ) ok then ..enjoy , that's better, its compact, tidy & comes with a good detail (well enough detail for me) & anyhow, It would be funny for me to catch public transport to go to APMA meetings carrying a 1/350 battleship or carrier, I get bumped enough by crazy people trying to force their way onto trains.. well that's my 5c worth seeing we don't have 1 or 2 c anymore -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Questions... For rigging 1:1200 scale models try a nylon hair net and separate the strands into their individual fibres. Add lots of patience and you'll need good eyesight! I still have a package I bought in 1963 for 10 cents. Michael London -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Mark Brown" Subject: Re: Questions... Richard wrote.... >> 3.) At one point someone on this Site was kind enough to point us to a web site that dealt with models of the HMS Hood, would whoever that kind soul was, please point me in the right direction. << I think the site you need is the web page of the Hood Association at...... www.hmshood.com It is a brilliant site, packed with info including kit reviews, painting info etc. While you are there, take the opportunity to download the mp3 interview with Bob Tilburn. The interview was taped as research for a book and the tapes were fortunately kept. The direct link to the interview is here..... http://www.hmshood.f9.co.uk/TilburnTape/TilburnTape.html Also, you *must* take a look at the 3D computer model of Hood created by Thomas Schmid. Amazing stuff..... http://thoschmid2.bei.t-online.de/page_images/hood/ Mark -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: 1/32nd Scale U-Boat Andrew Jones asked - >> I wonder how many wives would allow their hubby's to buy something like that & also where to put it?? over the bar, the mantle above the fire place perhaps??? << Oh, in most cases it would probably end up getting buried along with him in his coffin. Especially if she got a peek at the price tag... MWL Alexandria, VA USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: David Sepos Subject: Scale: HO, what's with that? Greetings: Ships are not the only things I model. So if you're not or have never been a train modeler, then let me explain, because it's a train thing. You asked, here it is: "O" scale in the good old USA is 1/48 scale or 1" = 48" or 1/4" = 1', simple enough. A great scale for those flying thing-ies and lots of other model subjects. Just a tad big for modeling most of those floating thing-ies and somewhat large for modeling RR equipment unless you have a gymnasium to store the models and build a layout in. In Europe, the corresponding metric "O" scales (to provide roughly the same size model)were 8mm to the foot in the Commonwealth (why did the English adopt a metric scale to begin with?) and 7mm to the foot on the continent. 7mm to the foot is closest to 1/48. Don't ask me why the difference in choosing 7 & 8, I don't know. As with most scales, somebody may have just picked an arbitrary starting point? Well, getting back to scales, 8mm (1:38.1) and 7mm (1:43.54) to the foot are kind of big for trains so someone decided to halve the scale to reduce the size. Eureka! English "O" becomes "OO" (double O) and was rounded to 1:76 (4mm = 1'). Our English cousins can correct me, but I do believe this is still a major model RR scale in England. Now, you also know why Airfix used to make a lot of 1/76 scale armor models, and the original Japanese offerings were made in 1/76 to compete. 1/76 has pretty much succumbed to 1/72 over the past 20+ years in the international plastic modeling community, again because of those things with wings. Airfix did package some figure kits as being HO/OO at one time. Due to the variations in people and the variation of the 2 scales, I guess it is plausible to use the figures in either. I always thought they were too big for HO and too small for OO, a typical compromise situation. European (Continental) "O" scale halved becomes "HO" (Half O) or 1/87.1 (3.5mm = 1') This is apparently what was imported to the US to compete with our "native" 1/48 "O" (Lionel, that's really not scale for the most part) and 1/64 "S" scales (American Flyer) in the years immediately following WWII. It became popular due to the reduced space requirements and is the prevalent model RR scale in the US today. Now you can impress your guests at your next cocktail party with your newly expanded knowledge. Don't ask about "TT", "N", or "Z" scale, and no, don't even think about starting a thread on track gauge. Now, can somebody please explain the basis for 1/35 scale? 11/32" = 1' or 8.7mm = 1' Nothing "even" about either of these ratios. Why not 1/36 scale, at least that's 1" = 3'? 1/32 scale is even in that 3/8" = 1' and converts to 9.5mm = 1'. That scale had been around long before I saw the first armor appearing in 1/35 scale. Go figure........... :-) Regards, Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: Questions...(HMS Hood) Rich >> 1.) Did the Camo scheme on the HMS Prince of Wales, change between the Battle of the Denmark Strait and her deployment to the Pacific. If so what scheme was she wearing during the Battle of the Denmark Strait. << Yes, it did change. In May 1941 she was in overall AP507B, a medium grey, with plain teak or dark grey steel decks as appropriate. The Admiralty first disruptive camouflage scheme was applied after her repair. >> 2.) For those microbuilders, what do you use to rig 1/1200the scale WWII ships? << I don't bother in 1/1200 scale. Anything you can put on a model this size is probably still going to be way oversize, and detract from its looks. This is especially true for wargame models, where the stuff will quickly get broken, anyway. If you still want to try it, I would recommend nylon tippet line used to tie up flies for fly-fishing. This is very fine, can be coloured with a felt pen, and is somewhat flexible and able to take knocks. If it gets slack, hold a mild heat source nearby, and the line contracts and tightens. >> 3.) At one point someone on this Site was kind enough to point us to a web site that dealt with models of the HMS Hood, would whoever that kind soul was, please point me in the right direction. << Wasn't me, but here is the site you are after: http://hmshood.com/models/Models.html cheers Cliff -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Stuart Robottom Subject: England Help Hi all. I'll be visiting the UK in early May this year on a bit of acamping trip. Can any locals point me in the direction of camping grounds (or anywhere I may pitch a tent!) in the vicinity of Portsmouth? I'll be going from London via Greenwich down to Portsmouth, then heading north after some days down there. Any help would be appreciated, I've had no luck on the web yet. My web search skills are limited! Also, will there be any modelling or Naval events on in those areas in the first half of May? Please reply off-list. Regards, Stuart Robottom http://www.deakin.edu.au/~robottom/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Dave Shirlaw Subject: Re: news Estocin is not being transfered to Poland; instead she is now being retained in US service. Inchon will decommission around June 21st, official date not announced yet. Dave Shirlaw Editor, Seawaves Magazine www.seawaves.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Art" Subject: Re: Cartridge Paper >> I was reading an article on one of Brian King's excellent models, HMS QE, and for the plating, he refers to using his usual technique of "cartridge paper". Now, I work in the paper industry, and it leaves me as a bit of a loss, so can someone from across the pond advise what it might be a reasonable substitute? << John, If it is the same cartridge paper that we use on the other side of the BIG pond, then it is the stiff brown wrapping paper that is shiny on one side and dull - and a little rough on the other. Has light coloured parallel lines visible on the back. Ideal for plating in the small scales and takes paint very well without creasing. Getting hard to come by these day, everything is plastic. Art -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: George Peat Subject: Re: Questions... Reference your question regarding Prince of Wales and her camouflage schemes. The book King George V class battleships by Tarrant has lots of details also Warship volume 3 has a four part article of ships of the class. British Battleships of WW2 by Raven & Roberts also covers these ships. I have all these books in my library plus others on the class. If these can help let me know. George Peat -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Questions... >> 1.) Did the Camo scheme on the HMS Prince of Wales, change between the Battle of the Denmark Strait and her deployment to the Pacific. If so what scheme was she wearing during the Battle of the Denmark Strait. << At Denmark Strait, she was in overall AP 507B, with steel decks painted AP 507A, and unpainted wood decks. >> 3.) At one point someone on this Site was kind enough to point us to a web site that dealt with models of the HMS Hood, would whoever that kind soul was, please point me in the right direction. << Go to: http://www.hmshood.com/ or http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Workshop/2966/Models/Models.html Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Bill Livingston" Subject: Re: Questions... Hi Richard, Here are some answers, I am sure others will chime in with some help too.. >> 1.) Did the Camo scheme on the HMS Prince of Wales, change between the Battle of the Denmark Strait and her deployment to the Pacific. If so what scheme was she wearing during the Battle of the Denmark Strait. << Yes. When the Prince of Wales was first completed in March 1941 she wore an overall medium grey. Probably AP507B. It was only after the repairs following the Battle of the Denmark Strait that she wore an Admiralty First Disruptive scheme. There are several photographs to show this. For example, British Battleships of World War 2 has several pictures of POW that are useful. For instance on page 288 there is a photograph of POW leaving Scapa Flow, clearly in an overall medium grey. Over the page on 290 is a photograph of POW dated August 28 following repairs after the Bismarck action in her disruptive scheme. Those same photographs and a few others, confirming the above assertion, can be found in Ensign 1: KGV Class Battleships. >> 2.) For those microbuilders, what do you use to rig 1/1200the scale WWII ships? << I have recently bought some fishing line called Pro Micron 3 (Solo Per Specialisti) from Gruppo DP in Italy. The line is 0,29 kg breaking strain (10oz) and has a diameter of 0.05mm which corresponds to an imperial diameter of 0.00197". It is the smallest diameter that I have been able to find. I use either a black or a brown permanent marker pen to colour it (hold it on a piece of paper and pull the line through, between the point and the paper). I odel at 1:700 and it looks really good. At smaller scales even line as fine as that will probably look way overscale. I haven't tried it yet, but WEM sell a Lycra thread which may well be a lot better. I saw a Hood rigged with Lycra thread at last years IPMS Nats in the UK and it looked stunning. Call WEM and ask if it is the same stuff. WEM may well have sourced it following a chat with the modeller in question. (If it's any good let me know and I'll buy some too!) >> 3.) At one point someone on this Site was kind enough to point us to a web site that dealt with models of the HMS Hood, would whoever that kind soul was, please point me in the right direction. << The site you are looking for is The Hood Association. Wonderful site and should be bookmarked by everyone on this list! http://hmshood.com/index.html To take you direct to the models page on this site then go to: http://hmshood.com/models/Models.html ...and for the indispensable painting guide, go to: http://hmshood.com/models/tips/HoodPaint.html I have put all the links in because I find the site very difficult to navigate through. It looks really good now as they have given the site a bit of a facelift, but the headings and grouping of information could be a lot better. Hope this helps, at least in part, Regards, Bill -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Mark Shannon" Subject: Re: Questions - HMS Prince of Wales Yes, the PoW's camouflage changed between the Battle of the Denmark Strait and her summer cruise to carry Winston Churchill to meet Roosevelt. At Denmark Strait the scheme was an overall AP507B medium grey with natural wood decks and dark metal decks (either corticene (internal) or painted). The First Admiralty Disruptive scheme, using 6 colors, was added during the repairs from Denmark Strait damage. Some have suggested that the eye-catching scheme was used to make sure to drive home the point in American newsreels of the leaders meeting that Winston Churchill was the leader of a country AT WAR by contrasting the service paint of the USS Augusta with the disruptive paint on PoW. For rigging in 1/1200 scale, try pulling a single fiber from a pair of stockings - it should be about .007 denier or somewhere around 0.001 mm or less - makes a silk fiber look like manila rope. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: PoW comouflage PoW was painted in overall medium grey during the Denmark Strait battle, which I suspect was AP 507B. Fortunately WEM does this one so you shouldn't have to mix your own. Robert Lockie Swindon UK -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume