Subject: SMML VOL 1722 Date: Mon, 27 May 2002 00:22:56 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Telescope 2: Ship Relics 3: Re: WWII ASW 4: Nichimo Kits 5: Re: Paints for Yamato and where to get them 6: Need info on LSSC (Light Seal Support Craft) 7: New warship will set standard for tomorrow's Navy 8: 1/700 Iowa & Nimitz Carrier 9: Re: relics 10: Empresses 11: floating drydock 12: Chih Yuen, Diomede and Modelkrak kits 13: DD181 Asakaze 14: Contacting WSW Models 15: Re: RNZN Posters 16: Proposed Photoetch Detail Set from WEM for re-released Heller 1/400 scale HMS Hood Model Kitset -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: New kits from WSW/B-Resina 2: Re: 1/700 PT Boats 3: Re Paints for Yamato and where to get them -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Telescope To Mike, of NAVYDAZE: Sorry, but I am a widower, and overstocked now. To Steve Wiper Hummpfff !!!!!!!! I would hate to see a nice guy like you get into trouble with Uncle Sam, so I will leave the offer open. Keep my address handy in case you begin to lose sleep over this. Franklyn, aka The Honest Broker ( well, sort of) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Ian Archer" Subject: Ship Relics I've got an enormous (25" tall) naval port marker lantern by the fireplace. The man at the boot sale I bought it from told me it came from a scrapped WW2 RN Destroyer the name of which he did not know. It is painted grey and made in Glasgow. I've been looking for the matching starboard lantern ever since! I've also got a brass circular porthole and frame with the dogs. I put legs on it and use it as a tea table. About two weeks ago I found a large late 19th century white masthead brass lantern "made in Brooklyn" Bits from scrapped or wrecked ships turn up in the shops on the coast if you can sort them out from the tourist trinkets. I.A. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: WWII ASW >> Who can tell me which ASW is shown on this drawing? What is where? http://picpage7.tripod.com/various.html << Friedrick, There appears to be a hedge hog system just forward of the superstructure below the bridge behind the forward gun, the rest of the asw system is I believe as you have posted on the drawing John Anderson -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Andy Jones" Subject: Nichimo Kits Hello All Not being a modeller of Japanese stuff. Can/would anyone care to comment on the quality of the 1/500th scale range of IJN ships from Nichimo. Also was there a Yamato or Musashi in this series and are they still available? I've been toying with the idea of some IJN ships for a while and no two kits seem to be to the same scale. Would this range be a good way to represent the some IJN ships. Those that know me know I prefer the colonial navy across the pond. Best regards to all. Andy Jones -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Andy Jones" Subject: HMS Exeter AA Armament Hello All I'm currently struggling with the old Frog HMS Exeter kit in 1/500th scale. To make things much worse I've got the version made by our friends in Belarus. The question I have is this. What guns did she carry in the AA tubs atop 'B' and 'Y' turrets and also the ones on her aft superstructure just aft of the mast and above the Pom Pom positions. The old profile says they were 'twin 0.5 inch disc rifle HA guns'. Anyone got any idea what these were? An illustration would be great if anyone has one. Were these like the four barrelled version carried by RN ships in any way? I know I'm going to have to scratch build them but I've done that with a lot of superstructure already. Many Thanks Andy Jones PS Sticking to Yank ships in future!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: VonsHobbyWorld@aol.com Subject: Re: Paints for Yamato and where to get them I would recommend you try White Ensign Models. They have a line of IJN Colourcoats that you are looking for. Regards, Dan von Gartzen Model Fleet ezOP http://pub34.ezboard.com/bmodelfleet -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "RAY MEHLBERGER" Subject: Need info on LSSC (Light Seal Support Craft) Hi all, I recently bought the DML Dragon 1/35th scale kit of the LSSC (Light Seal Support Craft), as used by the U.S. Navy Seals for river patrol during the Vietnam War. However, I can not find more than one lonely picture of one on the internet and it is a distance shot. There are lots of shots of other types of boats used in Nam...but not any more on the LSSC...that I can see. Does anyone out there have any shots of this boat...especially the interior? Or...can you steer me to a web site that has more than one shot of one? Any help appreciated in advance. Regards, Ray Mehlberger Contributing Armor Editor for INTERNET MODELER MAGAZINE -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: New warship will set standard for tomorrow's Navy http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/71776_shoup24.shtml -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Mark W. McKellar" Subject: 1/700 Iowa & Nimitz Carrier Hi folks, I'm thinking ahead to my next couple of projects. I'm looking for plastic not resin. I'd like to build a 1/700 Iowa class (without photoetch) and a 1/700 Nimitz class... Any suggestions on the what kits I ought to be looking at? Mark Boston -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "fredliedel" Subject: Re: relics While not really a relic I have a plaque from the U.S.S. Pasadena SSN-752 [Los Angeles Class]. On her visit to Brisbane [ Australian ] my good friend was head of security and while she was of limits to the public he got me a private a tour of her. It was great i got to play with both the normal and attack periscopes, plus i went ever where i could inside her. When leaving the C.O. presented me with the plaque mounting on a wooding base, plus a cap. It now hangs in my model room. Fred Liedel -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Jtennier@aol.com Subject: Empresses I can't couch for the Empress of Australia, but the Canadian Pacific Railway operated their trans-contental services with ships typically named "Empress". The Empress of Inda, Japan, and China were all built c 1891 by the Naval Construction and Armaments Company, Burrow-in-Furness. All were (Canadian) trans-Pacific west coast based ships for their lives. These ships are in high "Victorian" style having both a sailing ship clipper bows, and a truncated rig, but being primarily steam powered. The Empress of Japan as an AMC visited the wreck of the Emden, January 2nd, 1915. The book by Robert D Turner, "The Pacific Empreses" comes very highly recommended. The Maritime Museum of British Columbia had a professional (ex-IWM) modelmaker in the 1970s/early 80s and one of his beautiful models was of one of the ships alongside in 1/8" scale. The MMBC would have prints (not originals though) of the class. I am sure you could at a minimum get copies of copies, although they would tend to be a bit pricey. I am somewhat sure the orginals may be held by the NMM in Greenwich (which would also be pricey). I trust that clarifies things a bit. Cheers John -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Craig Palmer" Subject: floating drydock Hi, Is there anywhere a kit for a floating drydock in a scale around 1/87?Or at lest plans for one........HELP. BTW you all did good on my previous post on merchant ship funnel colors. Thanks! Craig -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Lars Scharff" Subject: Chih Yuen, Diomede and Modelkrak kits Hi, does somebody know, if HMS Diomede (light cruiser, Danae-class) had camouflage before her refit in 1943? I want to model her with No.1 6in gunhouse, but I prefer are a non-uniform (grey) scheme. Additionally I need information regarding the colours of the Chinese protected cruiser Chih Yuen, which I just started to scratch build in 1/700. The only photos I know were taken in Solent in 1887, but she was repainted in the 'Victorian' livery after delivery to China. 'The Chinese steam navy' by Wright doesn't contain other photos. The article in PSM Vol.3 No.4 is about is a about the three Chinese ships of the Sino-Japanse War 1894-95, which was released in 1/250 by a Chinese company (Ting Yuen, Chen Yuen and Chih Yuen), but the author confused the Armstrong-build protected cruiser Chih Yuen with the Vulcan-build protected cruiser Tsi Yuen (also spelled (Zhi Yuen or Chi Yuen). Does anybody has drawings of the other Chinese cruisers of this period? Recently I bought the armoured cruiser Kasuga and the protected cruisers Itsukushima, Takasago and Varyag produced by Modelkrak. I was not able to examine them in detail. Varyag looks very good. Not a top level kit like those by WSW, but certainly useful. Only the instruction could be more detailed (in all four kits).The problem of the Itsukushima and Kasuga is, that the small guns are cast on the deck, which looks not good, especially on Kasuga. Also the barrels of 6in casemate guns midships of Kasuga are casted on the hull. Takasago is the worst kit of these four. All 4.7in and 3 in guns must be replaced, because the shields are casted on the deck, which causes a too low profile. I'm not sure, if it his possible to build the 'casemates' of the first and last 4.7in gun straight from the kit. The foc's'le and poop appears to high (I have no plans to measure them) and the cutaway of the back deck for the first 4.7in gun is not correct. I would still recommend Kasuga and Itsukushima, and if Varyag is an example for their newer kits (Asama, Yoshino, Iwate, Aurora, Idzumi), I will buy all of these. I hope other ship kits of the Victorian period will be released (especially to this relative cheap prices). Regards Lars -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Gernot Hassenpflug Subject: DD181 Asakaze In SMML VOL1721 Ulan Phayakavej (Nye Nava) wrote: >> I saw on Skywave's web that they will announce new J series (J-21) of JMSDF DD-181 ASAKAZE in late july. As I know, JMSDF last DD number was DDG 176 of Kongo class or DD 110 of Murasame Class and yet, JMSDF ASAKAZE was DDG 169 of Tachikaze class. Will someone let me know any information of DD 181 or she will be a new class of JMSDF? << Hello all, The answer to this is as follows. The JMSDF classifies its surface warships into various categories. The so-called escort ships comprise the escort fleet with its various escort groups which in turn are made up of various squadrons. Currently, each of the four escort groups contains one AEGIS equipped missile destroyer DDG, one helicopter carrying destroyer DDH, and a number of general purpose destroyers DD. There are frigates too, classified as DE, which are not part of the escort fleet but instead form the mainstay of the district forces tasked with local defence, ASW and minesweeping in the vicinity of their bases. So the first point following this explanation is that DD-181 is a general purpose destroyer. The poster is absolutely right about the numbering of DDGs and DDs, and I would like to add that apart from the newest DDG-173 to 176 of the Kongo class, the Murasame class is 9 ships from DD-101 to DD-109, while DD-110 (Onami) to 115 are actaully referred to as the improved Murasame class, having a 127mm gun and an improved Mk.41 VLS system before the bridge which combines the Sea Sparrow and ASROC. Furthermore there are also DDH-143 to 144 of the Shirane class, to be supplemented by newer DDHs (replacements for the old Haruna class) which appear to be light aircraft carriers but are ostensibly labelled DDHs. The numbers are the second confusing point. It turns out that there has already been an Asakaze in the fleet, before the current DDG of that name. And no, insteado of a new class of DD, this is the very first class of DD to serve with the JMSDF. A little history.... The first influx of ships into Japanese naval strength (called a variety of names until the JMSDF came into being on July 1, 1954) was a lease of 50 LSSLs and 18 PFs (patrol frigates) following the signing of a ship lease agreement between the US and Japan on 27 Dec 1952. A further agreement was concluded on May 14 1954 and 2 DDs, 2 DEs, 1 SS, and 7 AMS (mine sweepers) were leased until August 1955 (extendible). Under the Mutual Defense Assistance Agreement between the US and Japan (as between the US and many other western nations) even more vessels were leased, and made up the strength of Japanese naval power into the late 1950s and early 1960s, when indigenous building programs began to fulfill the defense needs. Historically siginficant for Japan and therefore interesting for modellers, the US-Japan ship lease agreement signed on May 14 1954 (above) resulted in the first destroyer-sized ships since the end of the Pacific War in Japanese service. The former Bristol class destroyers DD-454 Ellyson and DD-458 Macomb (both of which had been converted to mine sweeping destroyers) were refurbished and handed over at Charleston Navy Yard on Oct 19 1954 (or decommisioned on the 19th and handed over on the 20th). Around 440 Japanese naval officers and crew had sailed from Yokosuka that August on a US transport. After handing over, training commenced until January 1955, when the two ships sailed for Yokosuka, arriving on 24 Feb 1955 to join the newly established JMSDF. Ellyson became DD-181 Asakaze, while Macomb became DD-182 Hatakaze. It is not clear whether the ships were handed over under the one year lease agreement and then were released under the MDA agreement, or whether the two ships were originally leased under the MDA. As a matter of interest, the Bristol class (planned in 1940) is sometimes classified together with the preceding Benson and Livermore classes, together with which 96 ships were built 1940-1943, forming a large part of the mainstay of US destroyers in WW2. They were also the last US destroyers featuring a forecastle break, the following Fletcher class was flushdecked. Standard displacemement 1630t (full load 2515t), armament as planned 4 single 127mm DP, 1 quad 28mm AA mount, 6 12.7mm AA machine guns. During the war this was changed to a combination of 40mm twins and 20mm singles. Torpedo tubes were 2 quintuple mounts. Designed speed was 37.5 knots at 50000shp on 2 shafts. Well, Pitroad has already promised a Livermore class DD, so this will be a variation. 24 ships were converted 1944-1945 to fast mine sweepers (DMS), losing their TTs and No.4 127mm mounting, in return for mine sweeping gear on the aft deck. This type was what Japan received (Ellyson DMS-19 and Macomb DMS-23 reverted to their DD pendant numbers in May 1954). As part of refurbishment, No.4 turret was refitted, but the TTs were not. Armament was two twin 20mm before the bridge and two quad 40mm ahead of No.3 turret (on the aft deckhouse). A Mk.37 FCS director and a Mk.28 gunlaying radar were fitted. SC-2 Air search radar was fitted on the foremast top, while directly below it an SG Surface search set was fitted. Two Mk.51 directors for the 40mm quad mountings were fitted ahead of them. For ASW warfare, DC throwers (K gun) were mounted abaft the 40mm quads and No.3 turret, while at the stern two DCTs (rails) were fitted. No hedgehog was mounted. It is not known what model of sonar was fitted, but it was mounted under the hull just ahead of No.1 turret. These destroyers were topheavy, and in US service often had the rear mountings' shields removed, and whatever other items could be chucked. The shields were kept on the JMSDF ships, but immediately after entering service the No.2 mount was removed completely, a unique measure among the countries receiving such ships. A short note on service in the JMSDF (ambivalence is a word to use here, since both ships were off Okinawa in 1945 in US colors, with Ellyson sinking the drifting Emmons on 7th April and Macomb hit by a kamikaze on May 13, both ships shooting down several Japanese aircraft.....). The two ships joined the 5th escort squadron at Yokosuka, as part of the 2nd escort group. The air search radar was changed to SPS-6C in 1960, and the surface search set to OPS-3 type in 1961, but apart from that no other major changes appear to have been made. The ships were removed from front line service in 1966 and joined the district forces. They were removed from active service in October 1969 and returned to the US in December that year. In October of 1970 the ships were towed to Taiwan and entered service once more. Actually the Taiwanese wanted these ships for spares, to maintain the other similar ships they had in service. However, as the Hsuen Yang, also of the Bristol class, had run aground and been damaged, and after ascertaining that the ex-JMSDF ships were in better condition, the ex-Hatakaze was renamed Hsuen Yang, given the same pendant number, and entered active service with the Taiwanese Navy while the run aground ship was stricken. The ex-Hatakaze was finally removed from active service in 1974. Asakaze did not enter active service with Taiwan's navy, but was retained for spares and repair needs. When the ex-Hatakaze was withdrawn from service in 1974, there was no more need of ex-Asakaze. She (I am not sure if Hatakaze also) was used as a prop in a 1976 Taiwanese naval action film and sunk as part of a 'sea battle' action scene. After 34 years of active service with 3 navies, not a bad way to go! So, if Pitroad releases this ship, there should be loads of modelers eagerly waiting to build, no? :-) Presumably, they will include the parts to make an original Bristol/Livermore class as well as the JMSDF version.... Cheers, Gernot Hassenpflug -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Pletscher-Lenz-Schneider" Subject: Contacting WSW Models Jon Iverson wrote: >> Does anyone know how to contact WSW via e-mail or phone? << WSW doesn't have an e-mail address, but you can reach them by fax. Their fax nunmber is: (+49)7720-31635 If this shouldn't work, you can send your message (with your fax number or your postal address) by e-mail to me, and I will forward it to WSW. Falk Pletscher -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Re: RNZN Posters Mike said: >> The ships on the RNZN poster are: HMS PHILOMEL HMS NEW ZEALAND HMS CHATHAM HMS DUNEDIN HMNZS ACHILLES HMNZS BELLONA HMNZS TURAKI HMNZS OTAGO HMNZS WAIKATO HMNZS TE MANA The illustrations are starboard-side elevations and are to scale. An interesting item to me is that the battle cruiser NEW ZEALAND was little longer than the later light cruisers ACHILLES and BELLONA, although of course she was vastly larger in displacement. << To put the record straight that was a special anniversary poster which I suspect is out of print. But if this is what you want try asking - you never know there may be some left over. They will post anywhere in the world - remember to include your snail mail address! The current RNZN poster is of the current fleet. They also have current Army and Air ones - the later includes the Seasprite SH-2G(NZ). Werner said: >> Now, before I find out what my chances are to have a poster of the NZ navy sent to Germany, is there any chance to scan the pictures and put them either on a web site, or have a distribution list and send them. << The RNZN have a web-site and also run a very glossy magazine with heaps of photos - there are a couple of them in the SMML archives that I scanned in. All these people sit within metres of the lady that answers the e-mail queries - just ask - the NZ armed forces are usually only too happy to oblige. Werner - they are also major SAP clients! Best regards John Sutherland Wellington New Zealand (fine but freeezing!!!) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Nick and Joy Rogers" Subject: Proposed Photoetch Detail Set from WEM for re-released Heller 1/400 scale HMS Hood Model Kitset Winter Greetings, The following two postings from the Steelnavy Message Board will be of interest to any HMS Hood enthusiasts. http://members.boardhost.com/Warship/ A. May 24th 2002. This has generated a lot of discussion regarding the potential of having WEM do a PE set for the Heller HOOD. We estimate that, based on the PE set for the WEM 1/350 HOOD, you would be looking at a retail price of about £65.00 (about $100.00 USD), to do a proper job. After all the discussion regarding us doing a set for the Heller SCHARNHORST, we've decided to go ahead with that. Of all those who posted interest, only one has actually stepped up to pre-order the set! So, with a potential price of £65.00 ($100 USD)for a 1/400 HOOD set, pre-orders are now being cheerfully accepted. We'll need a minimum of 50 pre-orders to proceed, and we'll post results in a few days.... John Snyder B. May 25th 2002. As we posted last night, it's going to take 50 firm pre-orders to convince us to do the PE for the Heller HOOD. That means 50 orders directly to us--not expressions on this message board of "count me in", or "I'll have one." So far we have 2; 48 more required. Cheers, John Snyder E-mail = johnsnyder@onetel.net.uk White Ensign Models. The Heller 1/400 HMS Hood kit has now been re-released.Pricing is given at WEM at $24.15 USD + freight. Until the ICM 1/350 scale HMS Hood is released,the Heller 1/400 scale kit is the biggest plastic kit available.The kit has its major problems,which a decent photo-etch detail set would go a long way to remedy.White Ensign Models of England already have a fine 1/350 scale HMS Hood Photo-etch Detail Set from their out of production resin kit of the Mighty Hood.So it only needs reworking into a 1/400 set. I have a unbuilt dusty Heller Hood kit up on the bookshelf taunting me as I write this.I have put my Pre-Order in now,so that makes three. Any others? If so place your bulk(?) orders with John Snyder et al....... White Ensign Models e-mail address is as follows, johnsnyder@onetel.net.uk Thanks for your attention, Nick Rogers, Auckland,New Zealand. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: rms Subject: New kits from WSW/B-Resina Please check out our web site for great prices on all WSW and B-Resina 1/700 resin ship kits and accessories: www.wic.net/~rms/ New stuff available yet (still) not listed: WSW 700-19; Potemkin, Russian battleship, 1905 $49.00 WSW 700-42; Schleswig-Holstein, 1939 $49.00 Also, the merchant ship set (1 cargo ship, 1 oiler, 2 tugs) is listed on the accessories page (that is, not on the ship page). And finally, all of the accessories listed at $6.50 have been reduced in price to $6.00. I will fax a purchase order to WSW in Germany on Tuesday, 4 June 2002. Questions/orders? Please contact me off list: rms@wic.net Thanks! Lisa D. Norman / aka Rocky Mountain Shipyard And to all of you who have just graduated (including my beautiful and incredibly intelligent daughter Julia): Congratulations! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: PT Dockyard Subject: Re: 1/700 PT Boats >> gee 1/72 scale, that's child's play , I want 1/700 scale!!! << If 1/600 is close enough, stop by! http://ptdockyard.homestead.com Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "WEM" Subject: Re Paints for Yamato and where to get them Hi there, >> Im trying to get paints on the internet for my 1/250 Yamato model. I need Kure arsenal and a color close to the hinoki cypress on her deck (maybe Tamiya's xf-55). << Re Kure Arsenal Grey, we have all the IJN COLOURCOATS in production now and can ship direct. IJN 02 is the item you want and is available in 14ml tinlets... you'll need a few tins to do a 1/250 Yamato though. Price overseas is 1.11 Pounds per tin and we only charge shipping at cost. Re Hinoki cypress, according to John, a very close match for this (it's a very pale colour) would be our generic Deck Teak, CCO C 01, with a little white added. You did not say where you live, but the paints are also available from Sandle Hobbies in Australia, VNE in Japan, Colpar and Pacific Front in the U.S.A., as well as from a number of European dealers.. contact me direct for further details. Cheers, Caroline Snyder at White Ensign Models -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume