Subject: SMML VOL 1778 Date: Sat, 29 Jun 2002 01:16:43 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Torpedo dropping devices 2: Re: Colosus Class 3: Re: Torpedo dropping gear 4: MGM figures 5: Re: Colosus Class 6: Torpedo dropping devices 7: Assistance needed LEANDER & MAJESTIC Classes 8: Cockpit canopies 9: Torpedo dropping gear 10: USS Coral Sea, et al -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation 1: SMML site update 2: IPMS 2002 Nationals -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Colosus (Karel Doorman Kit) -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: Torpedo dropping devices >> In some pictures of U.S. PT Boats there were four on-deck torpedo housings, two on each side. I can imagine the two forward torpedoes being launched by being ejected forward, but I have difficulty figuring out how the two after torpedoes were launched, as the pictures I have seen show the after tubes very close to and directly behind the forward tubes. Perhaps I am missing something. Comments will be appreciated. << (I'll bet there'll be a lot of answers to this one!) Elementary, my dear Franklyn, The tubes were pivoted on the after mounting point and were cranked out to an angle (relative to the centerline) before firing. The aft tubes angled out a bit more than the fore tubes. The crank handles were stowed on the roof of the day cabin. If you have access to the Revell 1:72 plastic kit, the cranks are visible on the roof, and the curved tracks for the muzzles are on the pads whee the tubes mount to the deck. The Revell tubes also have the hemispherical muzzle covers in place. With these off, the nse of the torpedo is recessed slightly in the tube, and more pointed (parabolic.) On dropping gear, Caldercraft has a model of the "Vulcano", an Italian torpedo training ship which has several sets of dropping gear on the beams. Model Boats or Marine Models had a review of this kit a few years ago with some closeup pictures. The previous is from my (decidedly) imperfect memory, so is subject to revision by more knowledgeable members. Edd -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: Colosus Class From: roberto paredes >> Does anybody know if there are a Colusus class kit? I would like to build the 'Minas Gerais' (Brazil) or '25 de Mayo' (Argentina). << This came up in a discussion a few months ago. Heller made a kit of the French Arromanches, but I understand it requires a LOT of modification. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Gmshoda@cs.com Subject: Re: Torpedo dropping gear Concerning torpedo dropping frames: I am reading the Conway's History of the Ship volume entitled Steam, Steel, Shellfire and just started reading page 140. At the top of this page is a picture of a Thornycroft-built "Lightning" of unknown number (but supposedly one numbered somewhere between 2 through 12). It shows a "frame" with a torpedo mounted within. The frame is a cylinder frame consisting of 4 hoops connected by 4 horizontal slaths suspended from two short elbow shaped arms with a simple lever attached to the frame and connected to each elbow. The lever apparatus looks like the letter "K" with the upper right part of the letter K being the outer extension of the elbow. The lower legs of the K are attached to the front hoop where it is connected to the top horizontal slath and the inner horizontal slath and to the third hoop at the same locations. The torpedo extends beyond the front and rear of the frame. The distance between each hoop is not equidistant. The gap between the last two hoops is a little more than half the distance beween the gaps between the first three hoops. The Lightning appears to be a very narrow beamed steam launch with a funnel and a ventilator behind. Notes say that the frames were lowered into the water at slow speed and then fired. This method was abandoned after 1879 according to the notes. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Doug Bauer" Subject: MGM figures In SMML #1765 a Mr. David Clark alluded to some 1:72 figures by a company called MGM - I'm wondering what that company's name is and if they have a website. Doug Bauer Poway, CA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: RDChesneau@aol.com Subject: Re: Colosus Class >> Does anybody know if there is a Colossus class kit? << Hi Roberto Well, there is the Heller Arromanches - usual scale, usual quality - but I have not seen it around for a while. And of course a lot of work would be needed to bring it to the correct configuration. Roger -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Tony Ireland" Subject: Torpedo dropping devices The most interesting M.T.B. and torpedo firing system that I encountered was a Kriegsmarine vessel sitting on a jetty in Kiel in July 1946. It was a hydrofoil with two horizontal wings - forward and aft - that extended sideways a few feet below the hull. Two lengthy propeller shafts exited below the hull at a fairly steep angle, enabling the hull to rise pretty well clear of the sea while it rode on the aerofoil-type wings at a remarkably high speed. I think someone mentioned 50 or 60 m.p.h. Pity I didn't take a photo of it, but it must have been at least 50 feet in length. It may have required only moderate sea conditions to ensure its stability. The stern had two open torpedo tubes in the hull transom, about 18 inches in diameter. I was told that the torpedoes were fired rearwards after the boat had dashed at night towards its target ship and then swung around 180 degrees and steadied its aim astern. As their propellers began to drive them forward, the torpedoes would in effect enter the water as if from a stationary launching tube. A variation of the famous tactic used by the Parthian horseman warriors of Central Asia long ago. Have no idea whether this impressive M.T.B. was ever used in action, but a List member may know something. Two or three of them racing towards my old cruiser 'Frobisher' on a pitch-black night would have had a pretty good chance of success, I imagine... We have had a large Italian-built passenger hydrofoil running a ferry service here in Auckland for many years. An even larger one, possibly German-built, runs between the Channel Islands and S.W. England - probably only in summer. One of our Auckland Scale Marine Modellers Club members has built a radio-controlled model of it from a German Graupner kit. A similar craft plies across the Straits of Messina, I believe. Fascinating vessels... Cheers, Tony -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Starline / Fleetline Subject: Assistance needed LEANDER & MAJESTIC Classes If anyone has any photographic material available on the following vessels please contact me on the above e-mail. Specifically looking for good detail photos. (Please don't tell me to try the RAN, nor NMM). HMAS SYDNEY (II) ex Phaeton 1934 Perth Class MODIFIED LEANDER HMAS SYDNEY (III) ex Terrible 1944 MAJESTIC Class CV In the case of Sydney II, details on sisters Perth & Hobart would assist as well in particular good photos/drawings of main mounts and catapult. In the case of Sydney III, photo reference is required prior to her 'Vung Tau Ferry' conversion. From launch up to the post Korea period. Thank you and all the best, Kevin Dunn - Fleetline -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Mark W. McKellar" Subject: Cockpit canopies >> Now if you believe that, I would like to talk to you about some Enron stock I have for sale. << No deal here....I sold all my Enron and sunk it all into Worldcom......... -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "David and Alison Muir" Subject: Torpedo dropping gear Thanks to all who are participating in this thread...keep it up! I did not realise there were so many ways to fire a torpedo from a boat. Drop it, swing-it-and-fire it, slide-it-out-the-back-and-swerve or just roll it overboard...all sound wonderfully hazardous. Lars...it sounds like you have the closest answer to the problem at hand and I would very much appreciate a scan of your picture and drawings. I have the Rap article and again appreciate the reference... Hopefully this will all lead to a model or two of these most elegant of warships... Regards, David Muir Sydney, Oz -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: USS Coral Sea, et al I would like to correct a misperception about my being "on" the CVA 43. At the time I was aboard her, I was a Deck Cadet (Merchant Marine)/Midshipman, USNR. Luckily, I was attending NY State Maritime College at Fort Schuyler (lived aboard the Empire State IV, former USNS Henry Gibbins) and got the chance to spend time aboard her and many other Naval and great Merchant ships that tied up at the Westside piers in Manhattan. Coral Sea was the first carrier I ever spent time aboard (a weekend) and I was really, really impressed. It was sad looking at the photos of her demise. Other carriers which I visited and photographed included the Phillipine Sea (CVS) and HMCS Bonaventure. Merchant ships included: United States, America, Constitution, Independence, Queen Mary, Queen Elizabeth, Ocean Monarch, Queen of Bermuda, Liberte, Cristoforo Columbo, a Japanese freighter (something Maru), John W. Brown (Liberty ship being used as a floating maritime high school), a Holland America ship and a Swedish ship (don't recall names). I must have taken 1000 photographs of them as I was given the run of the ship, being invited to dine with the officers, etc; however, I do not have one photo now! They were tossed when my folks moved, as was my 3/4 finished SS American Scout, the old Sterling kit. Sigh! But it sure was fun while it lasted! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Infomation -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mistress Lorna Subject: SMML site update For your viewing/reading pleasure we've added the following to the SMML website New Mainbrace galleries for: Bill Wood, Jim Chaconas and Ian Wrenford. Updated the following member pages: Jim Baumann. Added HMAS Ballarat II to the Australian Reference page Added HMNZS Canterbury to the New Zealand Reference page Added book review of Gli Incrociatori Italiani (for Regia Marina fans) Updated the Links page Archives 1720-1778 added Cheers Lorna -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: TechnoInfidel@webtv.net (John Collins) Subject: IPMS 2002 Nationals Greetings: I guess it's time to ask who is planning to attend the USA nationals 31 July-3 August in Virginia Beach, VA. Are any of the resident manufacturers or vendors planning to be there? Myself, I will be there. I will be lending a hand at the Victory Models booth. I don't know if I'll have anything to enter this year. Much, too much interference from real life to concentrate on a model. But, soon. Thanks, John Collins Atlanta, GA, USA -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Michiel Woort" Subject: Re: Colosus (Karel Doorman Kit) Dear Roberto, We produce a kit of the HrMs Karel Doorman in 1:400 since a year now. We have used the Heller Arromanches kit as a start and put a lot of resin parts in to make the conversion to the ship. Also included are Grumman Trackers (6x) and the Sikorsky UH 34 (2x) and decals (sorry only for the dutch navy). A piece of photo ets is produced to make the main mast, radars, props, etc. If you want to have more information about this kit please contact me: woortwit@hetnet.nl Greetings Michiel Woort -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume