Subject: SMML VOL 1810 Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2002 12:31:39 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Turrets 2: Re: Ensigns 3: HMS Courageous Camo 4: Re: British Standard Ships 5: shipmodeler 6: Interesting item on eBay 7: Re: Turrets on Destroyers 8: nottingham & stuff 9: Re: Midway ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Fred Bultman Subject: Turrets >> The recent comments about the use of the word 'battleship' by the media have inspired me to make my own. Destroyers do not have turrets, They have gun mounts, they may be open, semi-enclosed, or enclosed. A turret is an armored gun housing whose rotating structure extends below into a barbette A gun mount may have an enclosure, but the only part that usually extends below the deck are the ammo hoists and the rotating structure is all above deck. The old navy types need to help the the novice (at terms) talk knowlegeably. << Not so. in the early 1900s, there was a almost universal change in naval terminology so that the word turret came to be used for both the deck mounted turrets invented by Cowles and Ericsson, and the "hooded barbettes" pioneered by the French, and used on all battleships built after the Majestic class. So a destroyer does have turrets. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Ensigns More on this interesting subject particularly if one is interested in the period covered by the Hormblower books. Importantly the red diagonal cross was not added to the Union Flag (or Jack) until 1801 which is in the middle of the Hornblower period. The White Ensign in 1633 was plain white with the St. Georges Cross in the canton (the upper corner next to the staff). In 1702, a large St. George's Cross was added and it became known as the St. George's Ensign.. The cross was reduced in size to present day dimensions in 1707 and the Union Flag added in the canton. This consisted of the St. George's Cross superimposed on the St. Andrew's Cross. The flag known as the White Ensign was then plain white with the Union Flag in the canton. This went out of use in 1744 when the St.George's Ensign became the White Ensign. [Source "Flags for Ship Modellers and Marine Artists" by Alec Purves] Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From "John Currie" Subject: HMS Courageous Camo Could anyone please give me References for finding out the Camo for HMS Courageous at her time of loss on 17th Sept 1939(Poss overall 507B) Flightdeck Colour and Markings and colours of the other decks. John W Currie Chief Ptty Officer Royal Navy Its better being called a Battleship than a Frigate ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: Re: British Standard Ships >> A fellow modeler asked if I could get some information for him. He is looking for plans for SS BIELA, a "British Standard Ship" Bravo built in 1919 and sunk in convoy 1942. He lost a relative aboard and wants to build her. Is there a set of plans available for modeling for any of this class. I have already passed info to him about "British Standard Ships of WWI" by Mitchell & Sawyer and he is trying to obtain a copy. << Tom, By no means being an expert on WW 1 British merchantman, I went to my favorite general reference for these vessels: BRITISH OCEAN TRAMPS, Builders & cargoes, Vol. 1 of 2, by P.N. Thomas. Starting on page 54 there is a section on World War one Designs. The SS BIELLA is not specifically noted, but the following might help track her design information. [Note, "Bravo" is not listed among the ten yards that built Standard vessels??] In 1916 when the Merchant Shipbuilding Advisory Committee set up a program for 430 standard cargo steamers, they realized that each shipyard had its own specialist practices and so a number of standard type designs were permitted, although the yards had to build repeats of the same type. Only 110 vessels were completed by 11 Nov. 1918, twenty were canceled and the remainder were completed and sold to civilian owners. There were ten design Types in the "Standard" program; Type A thru H and N, plus F1. Each Type designation being assigned to a particular building yard. Type A thru G were cargo ships, and H and N were refrigerated vessels. Listed are the basic specifications for each of the ten Types, and the letter designation for the listed ten shipyards involved in the "Standard" building program. Shown is a full page General Arrangement drawing for 400ft OAL, WAR THISTLE, Type "A", 11,375 ton displacement, single decker, with poop bridge and f'cle. She was built by John Brown & Co. LTD of Clydebank. Also shown are her lines drawing, in 1:128 scale. There is also a neat color rendition of dazzle camouflage on the Type "A", WAR DRAKE. [Enough information to build a model from.] Another source of information referenced, is a paper given by Sir George Carter in 1918, to the Institute of Naval Architects, on the specifications of the main types of standard tramps, built towards the end of WW 1. Referenced is a illustrated transcript. Found the referenced book listed http://dogbert.abebooks.com/ search by author: 56. THOMAS,P.N.: British Ocean Tramps, Volume 1 Builders & Cargoes. Wolverhampton (England): Waine Research, first edition 1992. Folio. pp.157. Near fine in a near fine dust jacket. Water stain on rear hinge. Small amount of staining to backstrip. Illustrated with drawings in black and white and colour, plans and black and white photographs. Bookseller Inventory # 1487 Price: £ 20.00 (approx. US$ 31.04) convert currency Presented by Malcolm Hornsby,, Loughbrough,, LEI, United Kingdom I paid $40 for my new copy of Vol. 1, from Taubman Plans Service [USA], FAX 201 985-0438. A real neat pair of books, for all those interested in merchant vessels, in the first half of the last century. Hope I have been of some help. Please feel free to contact me if you know what Type "Standard" vessel the BIELLA was, or who built her, and her later owners [Note, the BRAVO shipyard was not on the list of "Standard" vessel builders - see above ??]. If you do I might be of some more help. Art Herrick Westmoreland, New Hampshire, USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: shipmodeler Does anyone on this list know how to contact Jerry Neault, a shipmodeler in Baltimore, MD ? A friend bought some steamboat models from him and wants to contact him for more. Thanks Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: paulship37@aol.com Subject: Interesting item on eBay I saw this item for sale at eBay: Naval Fast Strike Craft & Patrol Boats http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1549646466 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: Turrets on Destroyers I quote from "Battle Class Destroyers" by Peter Hodges, who spent his professional life dealing with Royal; Navy guns mountings and associated systems: "The new 4.5" mounting was a true 'turret' in miniature with a revolving trunk containing power operated ammunition hoists" etc etc etc. And so -------- you may EAT MY SHORTS!!!! Although listed as the 4.5 inch Twin Mk !V mounting, it appears that it was in fact a turret. Does anybody know if the guns on the Daring class (post war) were similar? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: nottingham & stuff the news people seem to be getting closer in regards to HMS Nottingham.. a female reporter on the WSFM radio reported it as a frigate...slowly getting closer talking of classifications of warships... over the years we have seen the "demise" of certain class of warships... for instance the battleship.. chances are that there will be never be another battleship again... the large carriers they were looking as being only for the US & now they are starting to make a come back.... Cruisers , they are large & require a lot of crew perhaps they could be next to go?? seeing that destroyers these days pack enough punch similar to a cruiser.. so could fleets of the future be nothing than destroyers mixed with frigates??? what else could be going the way of the dodo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: MrkLeonard@aol.com Subject: Re: Midway >> He said Midway also had a severe machinery vibration at revs for 27 kts. He claimed it was so bad that it was difficult to even stand on the deck! << I was aboard Midway only briefly, so I cannot address her stability or vibration at speed. I WAS a crewmember on Coral Sea during her 74-75 westPac, and she had a VERY noticeable vibration aft at high speed. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume