Subject: SMML VOL 1835 Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 00:57:20 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Itsukushima, Hashidate in 1901/02 2: Re: Japanese DDs 3: Pe for the Prinz 4: Passenger liner drawings 5: WEM S-Boot PE set 6: Ship Plan *Standards* (not ratings) 7: Ship Plans-drawings and a grading system 8: Re: British Corvettes and US Gunboats 9: Re: Holes, metric and others ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Gernot Hassenpflug Subject: Re: Itsukushima, Hashidate in 1901/02 In reply to D.P's comments on the Seals Models release: Both ships were part of the 3rd battle sqdn at Tsushima, and as this is a far more visible battle than the earlier Yalu or Ulsan battles, it seems to me that the most marketable period for IJN pre-dreadnoughts etc would be that time-frame, with anything else a bonus (example, cruiser Izumo depictable as built in Meiji 33 up to 1905). Regards, Gernot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Gernot Hassenpflug Subject: Re: Japanese DDs In reply to C.L.'s item on moving to Japan, I say 'Great Idea', on the idea of books for IJN DDs I say 'Good Luck to you!'. This topic will involve you in loads of reading japanese books, after all there has been so much published on those superb destroyers over the last 50 years. I cannot imagine how a book on a single class could do justice to any great degree, since the design goals, historical context, technology and many other facets would in any case need to be presented in some depth - not to mention that this would make it truly fascinating reading! And then the characters of the officers, and their training and doctrines (with loads of examples of course). And actions, damage, analysis etc. I would say you need quite a fair amount of free time for this :-) Perhaps collaborative work is called for here? Especially with Japanese authors/historians.... it is certainly a rife and as yet young field for non-japanese. cheers, Gernot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Pwesty" Subject: Pe for the Prinz Hi List I was just wondering if anybody know of a good PE set for Tamiya's Prinz Eugen? Thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: PaulShip37@aol.com Subject: Passenger liner drawings I had a chance to buy a nice set of drawings of a passenger liner on Ebay, and I hope someone on the list can tell me a bit more about them. The ship is the CIRCASSIA (Glasgow, 1937). The sheets of drawings are numbered # 930 through 933. These drawings are obviously from the UK as they use "centre" and "six off" instead of "center" and "six of." (don't they have spell-check programs over there?) They are all missing the traditional block of data that would identify the origin, draftsman and date of the drawings. There is a reference to an additional sheet that was not included, a sheet of "lines with increased displacement for working model". These are the type of plans/drawings that you hope to find when you go to build a model, nothing is left out. (indeed, it appears that these plans were drawn with modelers in mind, as suggested by the "working model" comment). The numbering system leads me to wonder how big a series of subjects was/ is covered by whomever did these wonderful plans. Can anyone tell me their origin??? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Doug Bauer" Subject: WEM S-Boot PE set I'd like to speak off-line with someone who has experience with the WEM photo-etch set for the 1:72 Revell Schnellboot...please e-mail me at thebauers3@cox.net. Thanks. Doug Bauer Poway, CA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Cyp Klish" Subject: Ship Plan *Standards* (not ratings) Please note that my original proposal was to establish *standards* for ship plans, not a *rating* system. Somehow the two have become mixed in the discussion. I would not propose a rating system because the consumer - we modelers - are the ones to do the rating based on our own individual modeling project needs. For example, my needs, and therefore the value or rating of a plan, would be quite different if I were modeling in 1/96 scale vs 1/700 scale. A number of you have posted responses along this line - I totally agree with you on this aspect. What I did advocate was a system of content standards (including accuracy) that would provide us a common basis for answering the vital question "Will this plan meet my needs?" Personally, I'd like to be able to get this answer from the ship plan supplier before I plunk my not unlimited hobby dollars down for a plan. To give a concrete example, in my hobby room, on the drafting table is a plan of an RN capital ship I purchased from a reputable source. The name of the ship, the year/configuration, and the scale of the drawing do not appear anywhere on the plan! These omissions are some of the very basic items I would expect to find, and as an engineer I find this very sloppy. So, I would suggest that the one most basic requirement would be to have the traditional title box in the usual lower right hand corner of the page, with this information, and a few other things such as a best effort crack at a dimensional accuracy (+/-) tolerance. From that very basic title box beginning our content standard checklist can include other content standards, like labeling and showing the scale on all detail drawings, on up to the depiction of hull openings. I hope this does clarify the original intent. Cyp ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: PaulShip37@aol.com Subject: Ship Plans-drawings and a grading system I have been building plastic models (off and on) for about 40 years now. Several times I've had jobs as an architectural model-maker, not necessarily because I trained for it. I stumbled into it when some architects found out I could scratch-build model ships at a time when they needed someone for projects... Architects are notorious for starting model projects late, with impossible deadlines and without adequate drawings/information.Sometimes they would give us a single photograph of a building and tell us to build it. (so I guess that ship model building was an appropriate apprenticeship) We model builders quickly developed a method to sort out the projects as they were given to us, much as the army sorts out wounded by triage. We could tell pretty quickly how a project would go by the quality of the drawings we were provided. In essence we would ask each other "did they send plans, drawings or cartoons..." "plans" were drawn so that all the lines connected, they were dimensioned and all the views aligned when compared. "drawings" sometimes didn't connect, align or share a common scale. "cartoons" (our favorite) sometimes bore a semblance to reality but required imagination, a combination of 'pictionary' and 'connect the dots' viewed with charity and an ability to suspend disbelief. I've collected model ship plans that fall into all of these categories, and I've built models that I enjoyed from all three as well. I suppose that a grading system would have to be "context" oriented.Plans, Do you want too look at them, build from them, or worship in front of them??? So here are my suggestions for plan classification: Class A: "looks real good in a frame on the wall" Class B: "if you build it they will come (look at it)" Class C: " P.O.E." the purity of the essential research is worthy of our adoration.(taken from the 'Book of Rivet Counters') ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: British Corvettes and US Gunboats >> I was hoping that someone in this global network could point me in the right direction to complete my research and come up with a reasonable representation of this British-built US warship. << Hi Bill, You need to get in touch with the Flower Class Corvettes list. Contact Bob Pearson at bpearson@kaien.net Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Re: Holes, metric and others >> Ah now. Holes is different. They are measured by taking the inside diameter of the wall measured in inches or thous thereof from the outside diameter measured by eye, subtracting swarf, grease and any adherent bubble gum, weighed and then condensed. The condensed holes are packed with the tube and will be found to have inserted themselves when the tube is unpacked. Any missing or substandard holes are replaced under guarantee. << Richard, thank you for the illuminating reply. I never considered the possibility of condensed holes. Of course the training necessary to make them insert themselves into place must make you very proud of your educational system. We here in the former colonies consider ourselves lucky if our offspring can be taught to spell. Your original posting caught my attention for a more arcane reason. I was wondering if you no longer manufactured tubes because you ran out of holes. Although I have never been there, I assume that the UK and the Continent are a good deal more crowded than here in the US and Canada. It would be a shame if a profitable industry shut down for lack of raw materials. We have a nearly inexhaustible supply of holes, which we would be willing to share, all you would have to pay is the cost of transportation. And with our unfavorable balance of trade, I suspect that a number of shipping companies and auto manufacturers would be willing to backhaul holes at very attractive rates. I don't think that major modifications would be necessary, and let's face it, holes can be a very clean industry. I don't think pollution would be an issue, and done properly, I can't imagine that the labor unions would object strenuously. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to profit from this idea, but perhaps someone on the list has a suggestion. My motive is purely altruistic at this point. There would be many benefits to our society as a (w)hole. (See, they are everywhere) There are many citizens of our East and West coasts who think that the entire midsection of the country (US, I don't know what Canadians think) is full of holes. If we cleaned out the holes, perhaps all kinds of wonderful things might emerge. To fly from coast to coast, the airlines have to climb well over 35,000 feet to get high enough to get above the holes, and occasionally, I can tell you from personal experience, they still run into one, with an unsettling effect. Colorado has a particularly severe problem. When they try to store their holes, of course they won't stay in place, they slide off the mountains into the neighboring states, who rightly feel they have enough problems without getting overrun with somebody else's holes. It is a cause of real concern. And the oil companies don't help any either. Our tax laws encourage exploration so the oil companies are out drilling for oil every chance they get. At least that is what they claim. But I have it on good authority that what they actually produce is mainly - DRY HOLES. Can you believe it? We have a surplus of fresh holes, and these fools are making desiccated holes as fast as they can. Normally, the government can be counted on to try to solve a problem of this kind, but with the cut backs in major weapons systems, there isn't much demand there either. Electric Boat has a huge stockpile of holes for the submarines, for the hulls and for the missiles. And up at the Watervliet Arsenal, some dummy got tired of stumbling over their holes, so they threw out all the 16" holes for the Iowas' main armament, and they threw out the liners they were packaged in, so that is the end of that. Anyway, if anyone has a need for holes, I am sure that we can figure out a way to fill it. Gary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume