Subject: SMML VOL 1840 Date: Tue, 30 Jul 2002 12:53:27 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: New Chinese Model Kit Report 2: Re: Istukutshima/Hashidate/Matsukushima 3: Re: San Francisco/Bay Area Notes 4: U.S. Dreadnought Reference Recomendations 5: Re: P Boats (and steam submarines) 6: Yamato mast question 7: Olympia and Oregon Kits..... 8: Re: Itsukushima/Hashidate/Matsushima 9: Gary's Holes 10: Links for Americo Vesputti 11: Link 12: Revell Bismarck -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Next Warship Pictorial ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Kerry L. Jang" Subject: New Chinese Model Kit Report Hi All, I just returned home from a visit to China (work and pleasure)and have some new kit releases to report on. One of the cities I was in is called Hefei - a provincial city in Anhui province. My hosts showed me to several "hobby shops", or stalls in the market that sold nothing but plastic model kits. The shops were stocked with all manner of kits. Ever wonder where the Matchbox kits went? Just about all of the aircraft kits were to be had. It appears they are made in China now. The shops were full of Japanese kits and of course, offerings from the Chinese brads, mainly Trumpter, Shanghai Dragon, Lee Model, and the odd "Minihobby" box. The Department stores also carried kits, intermixed with other toys in the Children's clothing departments. Plastic kits are extremely cheap in China. I saw the 1:200 Trumpeter Shenzhen kit in a model shop in Hefei with a sticker price of 128 RMB (1 USD = 8 RMB). In these shops you can bargain, and I could have had it for 90 RMB!!! The list price in the US is arund $70.00 USD... In the department stores, you could not bargain, and the price for this kit ranged from 150 RMB to 248 RMB. The kits are exactly the same (in China, you can ask for the boxes to be opened!). I purchased 3 kits on this trip, all to 1:350 scale. The first was an early Trumpeter 1:350 kit of the moden PLA(N) frigate "ong Ling". Motorized and very much a toy. Shapes seem accurate though. The second was a new Trumpeter 1:350 kit of Shenzhen. Wow! Now this is a kit. It is motorized but the detail is extremely fine and a scaled down version of their excellent 1:200 scale kit. Highly reccommneded! I think since Trumpeter started doing serious kits for modeller, their new released since the 1;200 Shenzhen in all scales are simply grat. This kit is the clear dividing line between Trumptere the bad and Trumpter the great. The thrid kit was by a new company (the box had "new" written all over it) called "Mars Model", and it is a kit of a 1:350 Soveremmney - the Chinese version. Forget this kit. Extremely toylike. A comment that has come up on this list on Chinese kits was the fact that they were all motorized, toylike, and the reasons for this ranged from the Chinese are... "too stupid to do a nice kit... lack the technology to do a proper kit... to including motors in the kits gets them into the US at a lower rate of duty as they come in as toys instead of XYZ..." As we strolled the parks and department stores in the places we visited, the real answer became glaringly obvious. In the parks we saw lots of little boys running these models in the lake and having a great time doing so! These boys and girls were buying and building these models to play with, and many were modified in some way for better perforance. Many of the Trumpeter copies of Tamiya's 1:32 Vosper and JMSDF PT-15 were also being run -- these kits coming with full RC gear as I saw in the Department stores. By the way, every department store had a track to run model race cars (those little Tamiya 4 wheel drive models) and the kids were lovingly modifying the kits to get theirs to go faster. It was great fun to watch these hordes of kids have so much fun. We laughed as the kids in one park preferred running thier boats to watching a goat walk a tightrope with a dancing monkey in its back. I was facinated by the animal show but the kids ignored this comeptely for their models. In short, these kits were not made for us modellers, but for the kids of China to play with and there are enough kits sold in their domestic markets to keep them producing more of the same! I also noted that the kits made specifically for export to the US WERE NOT available in China -- no Banner or whatever Arizonas or the new 1:200 Soveremeny's were seen anywhere. On another note, now that China is part of the WTO, all of the knockoff kits we have been seeing should dissappear in due couse. We were told that the markets and companies selling rip off products like watches, handbags, clothing, kits and toys -- anything with a proprietary mark will be closed. Indeeed, my wife was very dissapointed when she found it harder to get some of her favourite knockoff goods than our last visit a few years ago. The big market in Beijing is scheduled to be closed by the end of the year in an effort to protect trademarks. It appears that countries whose policies try to include China as opposed to exclude China are work best. Dr. Kerry Jang Vancouver, Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Pieter Cornelissen Subject: Re: Istukutshima/Hashidate/Matsukushima >> However, I personally do not believe that any sort of conversion kit is possible to transform Itsukushima or Hashidate into Matsushima. To show the extend of the changes necessary let me name just a few of them: quaterdeck needs to be lowered, forecastle deck needs to be raised, 120mm battery gun ports have to be relocated forward and so on and so forth. I would genuinely like to see a conversion set that would make all this drastic surgery any easier but I do not think it possible. << Hi Darius, I don't know the parts lay out of the Itsukishima kit yet (still in the mail....) but given the large difference in cost and investment between injection parts and resin parts it can be economical to simply supply the whole new hull in resin along with the appropriate parts sprues of the Itsukishima kit. Seals might even decide to supply all of the Itsukishima parts. Now that I think of it (or dream - I'm a certified William White fan -:)), they might also do this with the Mikasa parts to produce an Asahi or a Formidable/London. Just an idea off course..... Pieter Cornelissen Delft, The Netherlands ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "David T. Okamura" Subject: Re: San Francisco/Bay Area Notes Terry Sandin wrote: >> 2. For those living in Northern California or visiting here around Labor Day, I've read that "Sail San Francisco" is scheduled for August 28 - September 2, 2002. [Snip] More information is available on their website: www.sailsanfrancisco.org << For those who can't make it to San Francisco, there's two more opportunities to see some of the participants. Los Angeles will host the "Tall Ships Challenge", September 6-10. See http://www.lamaritimemuseum.org/ for details. The event comes to a climax in San Diego with the "Festival of Sail", September 12-16. See http://www.sdmaritime.com/ (New & Upcoming) for details. Note that Guayas and Amerigo Vespucci will also be in port in August. See also http://www.sdmaritime.com/fos02/tallship%20web%20page.htm. David T. Okamura ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Kevin W. Woodruff" Subject: U.S. Dreadnought Reference Recomendations I'm looking for some books like Reilly and Scheina's _American Battleships 1886-1923: Predreadnought Design and Construction>_ that give detailed information on the dreadnought battleships (the South Carolina class through the Colorado class). I have Conways and Janes and I'm loooking for something a little more detailed. Are you aware of any books like this? Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: P Boats (and steam submarines) P Boats were utility destroyers designed for sub hunting. They did indeed somewhat resemble a large sub on the surface, by design rather than accident. Handsome little ships displacing 613 tons they were armed with 1-4in, 1-2pdr AA, 2-14in TT and 30 depth charges. Their design envisaged sinking by gunfire or ramming. They had steam turbines developing 3500 shp = 20 knots. A total of 54 were laid down but ten were converted on the stocks to PC Boats (decoy patrol boats). The majority were scrapped in the 1920's although three were still listed in 1931 Jane's, one of these, the former P38, renamed SPEY for fishery protection duties. Talking of steam-powered submarines, however, let us not forget the 17 boat K Class of 1916 which had steam turbines giving them a speed of 24 knots on the surface. They did have a small auxilliary diesel which enabled them to get under way quickly. The had an unfortunate history with three being lost in collisions and another to an unknown cause. Two of the losses occurred on Jan 31, 1918 in what became known as "The Battle of May Island". K22 suffered a jammed helm and while out of control caused other boats to collide with the loss of K4 and K17. They were broken up in the early to mid-twenties. The steam plant and funnels could be closed down in 30 seconds for diving. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Yamato mast question Hi, I've finally started my Tamiya 1/350 Yamato. I'm using the AOTS book on her to do some extra detailling. But I've come up a snag with the mast. Tamiya has modelled the tripod-mast as a single continuous raked tube with the front leg, this is supported with two vertically positioned legs (profile view). In Skulski's drawings the main mast tube forks into two forward legs, in profile in line with the main mast tube. This is supported with one vertical leg aft. Problem is, none of the pics I have shows the lower part of the mast, except one, but this is of a very low quality I suspect it to be a drawing/painting! I'm inclined to believe Skulski, but the Tamiya solution is more logic viewed from a engineering point and that photo/drawing/painting supports that. So, my question, does anybody have any pointers to, or pictures showing the lower mast on Yamato? TIA, Erwin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "pnwa1@excite.com" Subject: Olympia and Oregon Kits..... Hello all, Does anyone know what the scale is of the Revell USS Olympia kit and when it will be re-released ? I am wondering if it is in the same scale as the Glencoe/ITC release of the Battleship Oregon. Also, any suggestions of good ref material for these 2 vessels is appreciated. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Lars Scharff" Subject: Re: Itsukushima/Hashidate/Matsushima Hi Darius, Gernot and all others, were do you get this information about the Matsushimas ? Are there any good books about the cruisers of Sino-Japanese War and Japanese-Russian War? Does additionally somebody has information regarding the Chinese cruisers of this period, especially Chih Yuan (built by Armstrong, 1885-87)? I started to scratch build this ship with only the photos in Chinese Steam Navy and Warship International, one profile in Conway's All the world's fighting ships 1860-1905 and a very bad model of her by Chengdefu. I hoped, that the dimensions of this kit are at least right, but this was a bad mistake. I have also seen an article in Warship, but it also only contains - if I remember right -the photos taken in Solent in 1887. Does somebody has any hints? Does somebody has something about her armament/mountings ? She has three 21 cm (8.2inch) 12t 30 cal BL Krupp guns, two 15,2 cm (6inch) 4t BL Armstrong guns, 8 6-pounder, 2 3-pounder, 8 1-pounder, 6 Gatlings and four torpedo tubes. Best regards Lars ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: GKingzett@aol.com Subject: Gary's Holes I think it is time to bury this topic. I would like to thank those people who added something to the discourse. I have the privilege of knowing several of these gentlemen, I can assure you that they are all more than qualified to pursue a discussion such as this in as much depth as required. I particularly want to thank Richard Wootten who caught the drift early on and responded beautifully in the same vein. To Bob Steinbrunn, "It ain't hard to get 'em round, but it is damn hard to get 'em in the middle." Finally, and this is where this all began, let's drink a toast to the nine miners who got out of that Pennsylvania coal mine, and the extraordinary effort of thousands of people to make it possible. That was one fine hole. Gary ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: jbgroby@cs.com Subject: Links for Americo Vesputti Hello, However I wold like to get a bit of information on the Americo Vesputti, I need to see if there are any photos on the vessel below the water line, According to the Heller Model Inst. they show the BWL as black?, IS that correct? If one of your memebrs couls help me I would be grateful. Thanks for a great site, Jake Groby Jakes'Ship Shop Chalmette, LA. 70043 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: " Kjetil Lindahl" Subject: Link This may be well known but I just came across this site and was stunned by the Bismarck and Hood projects. amazing. Looks like there is not much original left on the WEM Hood and Minicraft? Bismarck. http://www.ontheslipway.com Kjetil Lindahl ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Peter K. H. Mispelkamp Subject: Revell Bismarck Hi: Since no one else has mentioned it, you will have to heavily modify the forward superstructure just aft of the forward superfiring turret ("B" or "Bruno" in DKM parlance). Revell made this structure very square, when in fact it should be tapered (triangular shape), slightly rounded at the front and be sloped towards the top of the superstructure. Just look at any good reference books and you will see what I mean. At least Revell knew that the aft heavy AAA did not have their domes - but that would have been a much easier fix! I cannot comment on the waterline versions, the Airfix 1\600 version got the forward superstructure right, but her draft and freeboard seem to be almost the same as that of the Heller 1\400! There are other problems with the Airfix kit as well, but I haven't built or looked at that kit for so long that my one active grey (gray??) cell just refuses to launch the file. Hope this helps! Regards Peter K. H. Mispelkamp ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Next Warship Pictorial Warship Pictorial #17 - IJN Myoko Class Cruisers This book is finished and is ready to go to my proofreaders. Colorized images on the front and back cover, 74 pages in the book total, 2 color (center spread color illustration plan and profile of Myoko 1941) and 72 in black and white containing 112 photos, class development history and record of movement during WWII for each ship. I hope to go to the printers in September and distribute the book in October. USA Retail - $16.00 Future IJN subjects for the Warship Pictorial Series; Atago Class Cruisers Nagato Class Battleships IJN Destroyers ???????????? Thank you, Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume