Subject: SMML VOL 1844 Date: Thu, 01 Aug 2002 12:18:12 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Getting Kids Involved 2: Re: Future of ship modelling 3: Getting kids involved 4: Need Hull Lines [Jeff Herne] 5: getting kids involved 6: USCGC Modoc in Measure 16 7: Do it for the kids... 8: Re: Getting Kids Involved -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: WR Press Essex book and WEM paints ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John_Impenna@hyperion.com Subject: Re: Getting Kids Involved Hi Folks, This was something I thought was becoming impossible today, given the internet, video games, etc...It seemed that there was just too much competing with kids spare time and that model building just wasn't "cool" enough. I agree totally with what Kerry, Loren and Victor have said and also have a very happy experience to relay. My wiffe and I recently moved to Long Island, back closer to home and our families. My nephew lives around the corner and has a lot of his friends in the neighborhood(they are 12-13 year-olds). After unpacking (FINALLY!!!), my nephew asked if he could show his friends my "cool-looking" models of "old ships and planes"!!! Just goes to show that how something is presented by one of their peers can make the whole difference. I stood in front of my display case for over an hour and a half answering their questions!!!! 3 of them, including my nephew, wanted to know if they could try it and how hard it was and what it was all about. I took them into my store room (where all those hundreds of unbuilt models are!!!!) and each of them walked out with a kit, some glue and a LOAN of a few of my magazines...In fact, this experience made me take another look at Model Ship Journal and Plastic Ship Modeler and after seeing the kids reactions to these, especially Model Ship Journal, I am probably going to add these back to my Subscription list!!! Ships -N-Scale seems a bit over their heads right now. Out of 5 youngsters, 3 left with kits and the other 2 with some reading materiel and the invitation to come back for a kit if they decide they want to try it!!! I was really amazed by this..Their reactions to the magazines was especially interesting...It seems to make a "soft-sell" of the hobby. We all might want to try this with our back issues...Let folks take a look at them and come back to you for more!!!! The kids were even talking about maybe starting an after-school modeling club. Well, hopefully this will stick with one or two of the kids and not turn out to be just mid-summer boredom, although I have to say that this was the first bunch of kids that I have seen this interested in years!!! By the way, the break down of the kits was 2 planes and 1 ship!!! The other 2 kids though, borrowed Model Ship Journals and Plastic Ship Modelers from me though, so there is hope!!!! Regards, John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Melvin Burmaster" Subject: Re: Future of ship modelling The future of ship modelling may prove positive if the "cheap plastic kit" re-emerges to attract the average individual to build. Certainly those of us with long-time association are impressed with the virtual explosion of resin kits. In a decade we have gone from a few resin kits of quality on non-traditional subjects made by the Japanese, the Germans and a few cottage types in the US to practicaly every ship class post Dreadnought. I can compare a HMS Lion which I purchased in the early 1990's (which I have quipped from time to time that if the model truly represented the actual ship, they deserved to sink at Jutland) to the true gems now out on the market to show how far the resin types have gone. Just as interesting are the auxiliaries which are in injection plastic, the "aftermarket parts" kits and re-issues. But before we raise the glasses on high, let us think a bit about where we've come from: the demise of the plastic model industry in the US. As some have mentioned, the "starter" kits of days gone by got people into the art of modelling. Many were happy as clams building those "blobs". But I submit the benefit was to plastic modelling as a whole, not to ship building unless the individual was so inclined. Seems like everyone built a Missouri. Also, the Phantom II, or the B-17 (I won't even get into automobiles and armoured vehicles). We have to build on the moment of "crystallization" where the individual decides he likes modelling, and suggest that plastic ship modelling is a logical progression. So the "cheap model" from overseas will help. That is, unless government interference in the way of quotas, taxes, etc. gets in the way. Remember the surcharges put on foreign vehicles to help Detroit? The domestic producers simply jacked up their prices the same amount. Another temptation that I've seen is the huge (and incomprehensible) difference in pricing onn imports. A distributor in Canada may price a ship at $6.60 while the same ship lists across the border for $12.99. The Internet is helping expose such pricing nonsense which is counter-productive to say the least to inducing newcomers to stay with the art. (We can only hope that Congress balks at attempts by the states to slay the Internet goose with taxes) Another plus we have in today's age is the Internet. Think about the fact that you in most cases can see the product beforehand; you can carry on communications about corrections, upgrades, camo, whereas before you had to ferret out sources of information or try your luck at the library. You can compare prices and availability and then order. The irony is that the "electron tube" that taketh away interest in modelling also has the probability of encouraging the art. Too, the "invigoration" of history story telling (in most cases, not intended to have great intellectual depth) still has had the consequence of people seeking physical objects representative of a tidbit of history. Advanced modellers may cringe at the notion that someone will reach out to hoary blobs to realize that desire, but on the other hand we should see same as a golden opportunity. "If you are interested in XYZ as it really appeared at the Battle of Buffo, let me suggest ...." Finally, the "electron tube" might have another unintentional benefit. People use the 'Net to see pictures. The next step is to cultivate the innate desire to have a physical object. With ever more powerful computers and cheaper drawing programs - would we see more scratchbuilding? The possibilities are intriguing. Plane and ship sims do exist, which get people to thinking, people drawing designs to build either actual or projected ships and then actually building? Hmm. Respectfully, MJB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Baumbach, Werner" Subject: Getting kids involved >> I hope you're talking about all kids, Victor- I know a few 'elders' here in the West, too, that could use this advice! << Yes, I think this is especially true in the west, as we tend to think very colonial at the moment. I am not very comfortable with all the talk about the axis of evil and the like. I think the west is a bit too trigger happy at the moment, and we tend to attack countries that we don't care about (because we don't know them! I guess most people in the west draw their - perceived - knowledge on countries like Irak from the media). I think the phrase: the first to die in war is truth has never been closer to reality. Very philosophical I know, I guess the wrong place. But in terms of getting kids interested, I think the more general challenge is to get them interested in a topic on a more detailed level. It has to be something, they catch on and think it is cool. Today, probably most kids will watch Top Gun or JAG, play some shoot-them-up naval simulation and will simply not see the point in building a model. I have friends who say: why would they buy a book, they can read everything on a PC. I can't explain to them, why I like to find old books a leave through WW2 accounts. So I guess you have to have a creative mind, like drawing or writing and have to have an interest to understand things below the surface. Sure, if your parents are building models, you are very likely to try it at one point. Mine didn't. I was interested in history, then started to get interested in military technology (of course then I just said military vehicles are cool) and then after maybe 20 models built I started to think about what the heck was I putting together and how can I make them more realistic. And this is where it starts to get interesting again, as there is so much that you can research. So you have to have that attitude as well, I guess. But on a more general take, I think this more sophisticated approach is part of the problem to get new folks attracted. Many reactions I get are: Wow, that's a nice model, I could never do that. And it is jumping that gap, that keeps many folks away from modelling, the older you get, the less likely. So if you are lucky enough that you have a club in the hood, the start will be a lot easier, as you'll get tons of support. Another great institution is lists like this. On the one hand you get tons of information that you could never dream to find out on your own, on the other, you are using a cool tool. So, if you can show your kid, how you can collect information on the web and then build a really existing boat, maybe one with a history (probably preferably recent, as they would have seen it on the news, another cool media). "Role models" are always great, in my case that was a buddy, that sparked my interest. A list like this combines so much knowledge, offers so much support and different points of view, that I am sure also a kid would soon find it fun (you have to avoid the initial panic: oh my god, these guys are from another planet, I will never be able to build a decent model). Which then gets me back to the point, to exchange models, not termo-nuclear warheads. Sure we have heated discussions here once in a while, but I think the general attitude is one of interest and exchange of ideas. We should all try to think out of the box and try to understand different cultures and respect other opinions. Political things (war being a continuation of politics with other means) usually do not happen without a reason and there is always at least two ways to look at something. There is no simple they bad, we good, let's blast them away. If we get our kids (and probably ourselves too) to this point ... too much bla bla, got carried away. Executive summary, I think kids need an initial spark and then a lot of support to keep the interest. In addition the usage of cool tools will help to keep them with it. Happy modelling Cheers Werner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: Need Hull Lines [Jeff Herne] Re: Jeff Herne Posted the following on the Steel Navy Message Board, I answered but never heard from Jeff. Jeff's original message [edited]: >> I am undertaking a new project ... building a 3rd model of a generic merchant vessel, WW2 or pre- WW2 merchant ... and need hull lines .... Would prefer Hog Island, C-2 or C-3 Type. ... can anyone help beside telling me to spend $35 for a set of plans. Jeff Herne << I replied: >> Jeff ... Had you forgotten that I have a collection of General Arrangement drawings for all the WW 1, U.S. Shipping Board/Emergency Fleet Corp. ships, including the Hog Islander's Design #1022 ["A" ship - cargo], and Design #1024 ["B" ship - troopship]. Have hull lines for both these designs. Copies will only cost you an arm and half a leg ....... {:-) << Jeff ... Contact me off List. Art Herrick Westmoreland NH ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: getting kids involved >> ... isn't it high time to wean our kids from computer games and trash TV and introduce them to the constructive and educational pleasures of the model workbench? << It's funny how things sometimes get reversed. Awhile back I got a mail order package containing some new Mirage Poland Type VII and IX U-Boats (not bad kits, by the way). When I placed the order, I had on impulse added a 10:1 scale Heller model of a wood ant which was on sale really cheap (yeah, I guess I'll build just about anything in kit form!). As I unpacked the parcel, my daughters glanced at the U-Boats with the usual boredom with dad's toys, but when they saw the giant insect kit they both got very excited ("is that for ME...?!") I hadn't even thought of them when I ordered it, so naturally I said, "of course! We'll build it together sometime..." Later that evening I was taking a break from my computer games and watching some of my favorite trash TV. After several tries, they finally succeeded in pestering me into setting up the ant model on the kitchen table, where the three of us had a great time putting it together. They could hardly wait for the glue to dry so they could paint it the next day. I don't know if this is the start of anything, but a beetle and a ladybug are now on order... Tim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: FBustelo@aol.com Subject: USCGC Modoc in Measure 16 Hi Folks, I am searching for images (photographs or line drawings) showing the Measure 16 scheme worn by the USCGC Modoc ca. 1943. A general question about Ms. 16 - was the pattern standardized or it did vary from ship to ship with only the colors used standardized? My gut feeling is the latter. Also, was the pattern worn by a specific ship the same on both sides? Looking to the experts for guidance. Thanks, Felix Bustelo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Do it for the kids... >> I hope you're talking about all kids, Victor- I know a few 'elders' here in the West, too, that could use this advice! << Yup, all kids of all ages, here there and everywhere. I don't have children but do donate a heck of a lot of plastic kits to worthy little fellas and girls. Anytime an acquaintence mentions their kids I ask if they might be interested in a free model ship kit. Never have been turned down... It keeps my garage clean and makes me feel good. What's in YOUR garage? Victor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Keith Bender" Subject: Re: Getting Kids Involved Hi SMMLies, I'm one who also tries to get kids involved in modeling of any kind. It is very hard to get them motivated to do something. Getting them away from the boob- tube is a must. I have a ten year old daughter and she has no interest at all in building models. I've tried but forget it. She has made two planes at the age of four and five and they were great for that age. So she did inherit my craft gene but does not want to use it to build models. To bad because she would be great at it. Right now Brittany Spears is her thing, I wish Brittany built models then I know my daughter would too. I found that when our model club (Philadelphia Model Ship Soc.) has a demo at museum or library we attract allot of kids. Some do have an interest but it seems as if it isn't already built they just don't want to do it. Again I blame the TV and computer for making our kids lazy. But it's not all their fault, we need to curb their hours in front of it. KTB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Randy Short Subject: WR Press Essex book and WEM paints Snyder and Short now has a pile of the new WR Press Essex books in stock-$26+S&H. We have a good inventory of all the previous titles, plus a good inventory of the Classic Warship books. The new WEM IJN colors are in stock, and the Kriegsmarine will be soon. You guys need to vote on the paint jars. Sales are poor, so I'm thinking of droppiung the line when they sell out. they are the only jar I've found that will keep Humbrols from drying out. I was planning on adding a 1oz jar, same lid. But now those plans are on hold due to poor sales. My test jars now have 6 years with the Humbrol mixes in them and they haven't dried out. And I open the jars now and then to check on them. They have been kept in my garage in Sacramento where temps range from 130 to 15 F. Randy Short @ Snyder and Short www.shipcamouflage.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume