Subject: SMML VOL 1854 Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 12:08:43 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: AP fuses and Bismarck 2: Re: Andrea Press "Das Boot" 3: Re: Destroyers On Line 4: Re: Der Lucky Prinz 5: destroyers online 6: NOAA Ocean Explorer: Monitor Expedition 2002 7: unexploded and exploded shells 8: Re: Size of US Naval flags 9: Quality of Ship Plans by Zimmerman 10: Re: Getting Kids involved 11: Battle of Midway info 12: Re: Getting kids involved: learning and fantasy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: US Nats - another winner! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Robert Lockie" Subject: AP fuses and Bismarck I do not claim any expertise on matters of naval gunnery but I believe the point with fuses for AP shells is that the shell does most damage if it defers its detonation until it has actually passed through the armour. A contact fuse which detonates it when it hits anything at all would be a waste of a large and heavy round as a few unarmoured deckhouses and boats could be destroyed with far less effort from smaller weapons. As to Bismarck's ultimate cause of sinking, surely it was less the cause of getting sufficient water into the hull to overcome her buoyancy than the fact that all the combat capability had been destroyed by enemy action that mattered - after all, a floating warship with no operational armament or motive power does not constitute much of a threat to anyone and will, sooner or later, either sink or be driven aground by the forces of nature alone. Robert Lockie Swindon UKp with no armament by enemy action that mattered - after the hull than the fact that all ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: MIKE.LEONARD@customs.treas.gov Subject: Re: Andrea Press "Das Boot" >> Has anyone seen or read this publication from Andrea Press? I want to know if it contains enough new information to warrant ordering from the UK. << It's a very slick, impressive book on building a magnificent U-boat in drydock diorama in 1/32 scale. Excellent illustrations and photos, with some good background material on the subject. Given the high price, however, don't expect it to cover much new ground. I wouldn't advise buying it sight-unseen. MWL Alexandria, VA USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Destroyers On Line Sorry Rod, "Tin Can Sailors" is a different Web site than "Destroyers on line". Somewhere I have the webmasters e-mail I will contact him direct. It is a good web site with a lot of information and photos like NAVSOURCE has but it is Destroyers only. Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Chris Hughes" Subject: Re: Der Lucky Prinz Zounds like a schmaltzy 1930's movie, nicht war? Grosse biersteins, lustige frauleins und huzzar uniformen... ;0) Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: destroyers online here they are: http://www.destroyersonline.com/usndd/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: NOAA Ocean Explorer: Monitor Expedition 2002 http://oceanexplorer.noaa.gov/explorations/02monitor/background/plan/plan.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Franz Aigner GmbH" Subject: unexploded and exploded shells Tony Tully in "Shell game of Surigao: The entangled fates of BB's Fuso and Jamashiro" http://64.124.221.191/atully06.htm writes. "In short, we don't know whether fire or capsize caused the magazines to explode,..." How does capsize set off an explosion? will a shellfuze go off if you drop the shell?? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Size of US Naval flags I was hoping someone would have answered Doug Wilde's query about the size of #7, #10 and #11 ensigns as I would dearly like the answer myself. I can however give dimensions for British naval flags as follows: Battleships and Fleet Carriers:- White ensign 24ft X 12ft. Union Flag (Jack) 15ftX 7ft 6in. Admiralty Flag 15ft X 7ft 6in. Light Fleet Carriers, Escort Carriers and Cruisers:- White Ensign 18ft X 9 ft. Union Flag 12ft X 6 ft. Admiralty Flag 15ft X 7ft 6in. Destroyers & Smaller Craft:- White Ensign 12ft X 6ft. Union Flag 9ft X 4ft 6in. Admiralty Flag 9ft X 4ft 6in. Source:- Alec A. Purves "Flags for ship modellers and marine artists" (p39) Conway Maritime Press 1983. Of the major naval powers only USA and Britain used the length = 2 x height ratio. Others were in the ratio approx 1.7:1. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: FBustelo@aol.com Subject: Quality of Ship Plans by Zimmerman Hi Folks, Any comments on the quality and accuracy of Spanish-America War ship plans drawn by Gene T. Zimmerman? He did some of the Maine, Oregon among others. I am really asking if they are good enough to detail a model and help answer questions left unanswered by spartan instructions (e.g. ISW USS Maine kit) and are they good enough to scratch-build something if one should desire. Thanks, Felix Bustelo ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Bruno Gire" Subject: Re: Getting Kids involved Fred Liedel's last remark on this subject is worth to be considered. I'm a teacher in a French college (i.e. for kids from 11 to 15 years old) and I founded a model building class 13 years ago, which is still alive and challenging. This is an optionnal device, which must be separated from other courses (that's an administrative rule). The "class" takes place every wednesday afternoon, for 2 1/2 hours, from October to June. Over these 13 years, we built 532 plastic models (with a peak 94 kits in 1998). Kits are about 60% planes, 30% ships (ancient and modern) and 10% cars and motorbikes. We started with Airfix, Revell, Italeri and Heller kits and soon went to "Tamigawa", Dragon, Academy and Eduard. The public: originally, I designed this "club" for college kids who aren't good at school. The purpose was to get them involved in a successful, different school activity, with both manual and intellectual work. Surprisingly, after some months, I had to considere a heavy demand from good and very good schoolboys and girls... who wanted to be involved in a more challenging activity than in other courses (sic !) and some of the former boys resigned, due to a lack of "endurance". Over the years, I had to include, too, a few pre-college kids (9 and 10 years old) as well as post-college -former members- up to a 19 years old girl from first year of the University (she built a Revell 1:32 F-15 and Heller's 1:400 Richelieu in 1943 graded camouflage with photoeched parts). The aim: I managed to get a balance between passion, some "rigorism". Kids more and more want short, easy activities, with immediate results. I wanted to "counter balance" by getting them involved in longer, time demanding, quite challenging activities. The record case: a 14 years old girl with mean-to- poor school level started Academy's 1:350 Titanic in January 2001 with the aim of building THE ship from her beloved movie. She completed a beautiful model in June 2002, after circa 70 hours of work, by glueing a home made etched brass -and painted !- "DiCaprio" on the after deck (!). Passion sometimes helps... During sessions, we always have lenghty talking, debates on the technical and historical backgrounds. For exemple, I never say "Ok, you can fit part 128", but "Now you've to fit the engine bay, landing gear, quaterdeck or main turret", so kids get familiar with technical terms (both in French and English). In 1999 five girls building sailing ships (Heller, of course) started on their own a quizz about naval ship parts (mizzain, bowsprit,etc...): what a funny day! The management: the club hosts 12-16 kids at a time, for space, time and tooling is rather limited. When the total of members exceed that (we got 40 in 1998 !), they alternate on a bi-weekly base. I also accepted "very professional" (with their own tools) kids every weeks. Kids choose the models they want to build in two different ways: 1-they buy it themselves (I managed to get a 10% refund from local suppliers). 2-they buy from a stock I've bought on the Internet or more distant suppliers. I introduced this last option, as I was getting "sick" of seeing large airwings of Tomcats, F-18, and Ferraris an no rarer planes, naval ships. The kids build their models. I recommend working on two kits at a time, as this is best to let the glue/ paint set and work on another model: waiting is something our kids can no longer admit... I'm involved only with help in doing some difficult assemblies (on older kits... I never helped on Tamigawa or recents Revell of Germany) and on airbrushing the camouflage (except for my "professional kids", who do that themselves). I give plenty of advice, tricks and I sometimes suggest some options. The money: In the French school system, we have a so called "Foyer Socio-Educatif", which is an independant organization in each college, managed by 3 (or more) kids and 3 (or more) adults, teachers or parents. Its role is to manage, get the money for activities which are not in the "true" educationnal domain (Clubs, lotos, fairs, school travels, ...). Club members must pay a membership of 4.60 euros (same in $) per year to participate. The "Foyer gives us a subvention of 900 euros (same in $) a year to buy quality tooling (thanks, MicroMark !), small machines, paints and varnishes, brushes, glue and diorama material, includng wood bases. Kids buy the models with their own money. The rest is free (except the membership), but upon completion, the kids have to display their work in a special case in the college library for two weeks. Club developments: we evolved, too, to improve our making. Some milestones: 1992 : introduction of airbrushing (at first a single action Tamiya, but now a double action Aztek for excellent results) 1996: a local exhibition is set for the end of each year: the kids display their models to the whole college during one week. Then the college votes for the best model (best 1-72 aircraft, best 1-48 aircraft, best naval ship, etc). For each type, the winner wins.... a model ! 1998: our first dioramas. At first, these were just a curiosity, but they proved great for waterline ships and for taking care of fragile aircraft landing gears. Since 1999, 98+% of our models have their diorama, ranging from the simple wood base with a little sand to a detailled lagoon (for a Catalina), water (more or less heavy), landscape, etc... 2000: our first resin molding. First made to replace a lost turret for '50s French cruiser Colbert, then to improve kits and dioramas. A 15 year boy designed in 1999 a lovely 1:72 carrier deck planking from the AOTS book on USS Yorktown. This is still used for our numerous Hellcats and Corsairs. 2001: our first photoetched parts. With two boys, I designed, draw and produced a detail set for the 1:400 Heller carrier Foch (antennae, railings, radars, propellers and.... 180 figures !) The future: I teach technology and as we received two years ago a computer driven milling machine, we'll be able to design and produce our own parts.... The naval side of the club : we produced the whole Italeri US carrier range (twice or more for Saratoga and Nimitz alone), most of 1:400 Heller (among them 3 Richelieus and... 5 Clemenceau!!), Tamiya 1:350 Missouri, PoW and Fletcher, a dozain of Hasegawa/ Fujimi WWII Jap and US ships, old 1:600 Airfix (Belfast, Hood, Ark Royal -sinking-, Forrestal -now Heller) and many Heller sailing man'o'war (Phenix, Couronne, Royal Louis, Spanish galleon, and a Victory -hull built up to the main deck at the end of the first year) Columbus ships and fishing boats. ... Oooops! I forgot: FOUR Titanics (two old Revell and two Academy) ! Bruno Gire Bordeaux, France ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Cataldo Torelli" Subject: Battle of Midway info Hello, Too much time without posting, but I wonder if there is a web, book, etc. regarding the ops on 4th of June, 1942 about the facts, procedures, etc. of CV-6 USS Enterprise Air Group leaded by Wade McCluskey. Thanks in advance, Cataldo Torelli ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Re: Getting kids involved: learning and fantasy In regards to toning down the violence level ..i remember over hearing 2 people talking about trying to get people in or for people to build models & I cant remember the full story but it in general it was like some people might consider people who build military stuff a bit odd & glorify war etc as I went to a wargamers club ealier in the year for a model comp & they in their earlier history had to get rid of wargamers from their name to gamers because of problems with parents allowing kids to attend something called "WARgaming" & also playing with dragons/goblins/devils I think one of them said they had to be careful around the local church group as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Michael Quan" Subject: US Nats - another winner! The first-place winner of the Chapter/Group Entry category was the IPMS-North Central Texas display of 100 years of the US Navy Destroyer. This was a collection of 700th waterline Destroyers representing almost all the classes of destroyers in service with the Navy from the Bainbridge to the Zumwalt. 23 Texans plus one Canuck built from either a kit, modified a kit, or scratchbuilt one of the 36 models displayed. Ed Grune was the club project coordinator. Images will be forwarded to Shane for posting soon. cheers, Mike Quan Rockwall Texas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume