Subject: SMML VOL 1864 Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2002 13:14:12 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: 5.25" armored windows Q3, drilling out gun barrels 2: Northampton-Class info need 3: Show costs 4: SF Fleet Week 2002 5: Re: Two 1/700 Hasegawa liner models: The" Yawata" Maru and the "Hikawa Maru" 6: Re: Japanese liner color schemes 7: Re: C130 landing on.. 8: Re "Circassia" and Deck Coverings 9: Competitions 10: Re: Large plane on ESSEX 11: Contests, models, and Coasties 12: Hasegawa website in English (plus their e-mail address) 13: Interesting item on eBay 14: Re: exhibitions 15: Re: IPMS And Judging 16: 75% of what? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Bud Link" Subject: Re: 5.25" armored windows Q3, drilling out gun barrels Replacing the barrels with steel tube will give a better and more consistent result, IMHO, with far less aggravation. Brass tube can be used in larger scales or bores. Bud ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bud Link" Subject: Northampton-Class info need Anyone on list know the propeller diameter for a Northampton-Class US heavy cruiser [CA-26 class]? The only info I have says 4 screws, inboard rotation, 4 blades each. I don't trust the non-shipyard drawings I have for diameter. Thanks. Bud ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Show costs Hi Guys I've been reading the thread about the IPMS Nationals. My question is this. How much did that show cost? Back in '97 my IPMS Chapter Delaware Valley Scale Modelers hosted a Regional contest and this costed $13,000. It was interesting to learn about the behind the scenes activities. Such as getting a suitable hotel with rooms for people to stay at and display models and vendors. Also permits had to be filed with the local Police and Fire Depts. We ordered tables that had to be setup and marked model displays and vendors. Many large hotels with convention centers or banquethalls generally are interested in Business seminars and weddings as stables for business. Also the chapter has to make a 100% commitment to the event. So it's members do such jobs working the registration tables,setting up seminars. The place we had was a banquet hall that could be separated by folding walls. It took the hotel staff about a half hour after the vendors left and models were moved to swept and vaccum the area. The Bill is generated by cost of how many hotel rooms were rented out for the show and remained unoccupied. And it has to be paid the day the contest ends. So is there any one hear who worked on the staff knows the cost. By the way we fell short back in '97 by $300.00. It was divided up by the membership to be covered. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: SeaPhoto@aol.com Subject: SF Fleet Week 2002 So far, it is still on, but no word on what ships will participate. I have heard a rumor that it will be a modest event (not a lot of ships, perhaps as few as four) this year, but with the Blue Angels still flying. Fleet Week is held around the US Navy's official birthday, October 13, so it almost always is in the second week of October. This year, of course, events could lead to cancellation at any time, so take that into consideration if you are planning to attend; same for the San Diego event the following week. HTH By the way, the USS McCampbell (DDG-85) is in town this week preparing for her commissioning on the 17th. A great chance to get a peek at a Flight IIA Burke if you are in the area. I was on the bridge when she came in yesterday, a most impressive sight (the ship, not me ) Kurt SeaPhoto Maritime Photography www.warshipphotos.com Order via our online catalog...now taking credit cards via Paypal Warship Models Underway www.warshipmodelsunderway.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: William Swan Subject: Re: Two 1/700 Hasegawa liner models: The" Yawata" Maru and the "Hikawa Maru" >> A few months ago, I bought, from an American dealer (in the Internet), two Hasegawa 1/700 models of two Japanese ocean liners from between the two World Wars, the YAWATA MARU and the HIKAWA MARU. Ocean liners are my main modeling interest in the last few years. Now that I was about to start building the first one, I noticed, with dismay, that the instructions are only in Japanese. I'm an experienced Modeler and I could try and build it only by looking to the pictures. But I'm also very rigourous and I have no clues on the colour scheme. I need to know the exact tones for painting before starting because many parts must be painted before assemblying... In Portugal, as in every other country of the European Union, it is not possible to sell any article without labeling and instructions in the nine European Union languages. I never thought that an article could be sold in the US without instructions in English. Now I got this problem to solve. The seller gave me a polite answer, but could not help me. I tried to find out the Hasegawa e-mail adress, so that I can write them and ask for instructions in English, but was unable to find it so far. Can anyone help me? The Hasegawa e-mail adress would be a precious help! << You're up against the bane of all Pre-WW2 ocean liner/cruise ship modellers, lack of information. You may be in better luck than most regarding the Hikawa as she managed to survive the war to eventually become a dockside restaurant after having been restored (in Yokahoma, at least through 1986). A Google search on Hikawa Maru will probably turn up what you need. Yawata is a real problem as she not only did not survive the war but was only in service for a very short time before being converted to the ill fated IJN Unyo (sunk 9/16/1944 by USS Barb about 200 miles off of Hong Kong). As for colors, if you have any references that have note of NYKK, (Nippon Yusen KK) that was the shipping line that employed Yawata Maru from 1939 to Pearl Harbor). There is quite a bit of dispute about the actual color of the masts and king posts as well as the deck but for a reasonable guess you might check the article in Navis about this class of vessel (Nitta, Yawata and Kasuga Maru). A very nicely done model with great photos is featured there. I think it is under the Nitta Maru name. Any info you find re any of the sisters will apply to all as NYKK tried to make them all look alike. William Swan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Japanese liner color schemes >> A few months ago, I bought, from an American dealer (in the Internet), two Hasegawa 1/700 models of two Japanese ocean liners from between the two World Wars, the YAWATA MARU and the HIKAWA MARU. Ocean liners are my main modeling interest in the last few years. Now that I was about to start building the first one, I noticed, with dismay, that the instructions are only in Japanese. I'm an experienced modeller and I could try and build it only by looking to the pictures. But I'm also very rigourous and I have no clues on the colour scheme. I need to know the exact tones for painting before starting because many parts must be painted before assemblying.. << These two liners belonged to Nippon Yusen Kabusiki Kaisa (N.Y.K.) or, in English, Japan Mail Steamship Co. Ltd. As passenger liners decks would have been wood planked. Hulls were black with a white line at the level of the first deck below the main; boot topping red. Funnels were black with broad white band on which was superimposed two red bands. These left a narrow band of white above and below with a wider band between the two red. Masts and derricks brown (Humbrol #62). You can get back to me off list if you need any further info. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "cpalfreeman" Subject: Re: C130 landing on.. I didn't believe this until I had a look at: http://www.airspacemag.com/ASM/Web/Site/QT/HercOn.html where you can see the movie footage. Big aircraft, impressive stuff. What's more the same site has movie footage of the thing taking off again. Charles Palfreeman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re "Circassia" and Deck Coverings Finding that the endless arguments, recriminations and regurgitations about the seemingly rather pointless "judging rules" of the IPMS (the organisation which makes one remove models from their protective cases, if my recollection is correct) have all become rather tedious, I thought I would pick up on a couple of queries raised in the past few weeks to which no one else seems to have responded: !. "Circassia" Someone reported having bought a set of drawings of this ship and wondered what the ship was and who had drawn the plans. "Circassia" was built in 1937 by Fairfield of Glasgow for the Liverpool - Bombay service of the Anchor Line. During WW II she served first as an armed merchant cruiser, then a troop transport and finally as a landing ship infantry (LSI). I believe she took part in the D-Day landings. After the war she was refurbished and re-entered her owners service to India. She was finally scrapped in 1966. She had two sisters, "Cilicia", also of 1937 and "Caledonia" which was built post war in 1947, both also from Fairfields. The plans which were referred to on this list are almost certainly those drawn by Harold A.Underhill. He drew a number of modellers' plans for sail and powered vessels ranging from ship's boats to the "Queen Mary". I have not seen those of "Circassia" but others which I have in my possession are of very high quality and exceptionally well detailed. The drawings for "Circassia" are at a scale of 1/16 inch to the foot. I seem to remember that the correspondant who had the drawings did not have a lines or body plan. There were in fact two, one at 1/16 inch to the foot for a scale model and another at 1/8 inch to the foot with a larger displacement for a working model. Harold Underhill's drawings are still published, I believe by Brown, Son and Ferguson of Glasgow and are available from various sources, including Abe Taubman. 2. Merchant Ship Deck Coverings Another correspondant enquired about the deck coverings and colouring of cargo ships of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The answer is that "it depends". It must be first remembered that cargo ships are built first and foremost to provide their owners with a profit. Seldom, therefor, is anything incorporated which is not cost effective. The main purpose of wooden deck sheathing on a cargo carrier is as insulation and it was most commonly used on the decks above accommodation spaces and above insulated holds. Those who are interested should try to get copies of "British Ocean Tramps" volumes 1 and 2 by P.N.Thomas and "Steam Coasters and Short Sea Traders" by Charles V.Waine, Ph.D., all published by Waine Research. A study of the many arrangement drawings in these books will show what I mean. As for colouring of steel decks, most common was black or red lead. It was very often a case of using whatever paint was at hand and at the whim of the master or (more often) that of the mate. I recall that on one ship in which I served the decks were at different times black, green and red so a model showing any of these would be correct. Best wishes to all, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Competitions Jeff Herne writes: >> Bob, My apologies, I was referring to the Mariner's Museum Show. << No apologies were necessary here, Jeff, especially from you. This has been a fascinating thread for me since opinion on model competitions flies all over the screen. I have mixed feelings on contests and have a lot of respect for the various viewpoints expressed here. I like Bob Santos' view that, in the early IPMS days, it was great fun to see what could be done using just plastic. Bob is one of the most accomplished modelers I know and he uses a great variety of materials in his building. I understand what he's saying, though, when he mentions that it often took more skill to make a viable part out of styrene than to use a more suitable material for that particular part. Having 75% plastic in a model made for a more level playing field in contests. I was fortunate enough to be a member of the Dallas/Ft. Worth IPMS chapter in the late '60s and to have associated with Jim Sage (IPMS/USA #1) and Richard Marmo (IPMS/USA #2) who were the founders of IPMS/USA. These were exciting times, seeing what could be done with plastic kits, using just plastic. I like Rusty White's perspective on contests and think he's displayed remarkable restraint regarding the criticism of the judging at the recent IPMS/USA Nationals. Rusty, give yourself a nice pat on the back. Contests can be educational or self-defeating: it all depends on attitude. I've been attending IPMS Nationals off and on since 1982 and have some thoughts of my own I'd like to share. Here are "Bob's 10 rules of contest enlightenment", for better or worse. (grin) Rule #1: Remember......(and repeat after me...) it's only a hobby.....it's only a hobby.......it's only a hobby..... Now, having said that, I think contests are great fun, but it's all in your attitude. For me, it's more important to be able to place my model on the contest table next to one built by one of the experts so I can conduct my own comparision. I've learned so much that way and my own modeling has improved as a result. Winning something is, of course, great fun, too, but of much lesser importance. Rule #2: No judge, however knowledgeable, will know as much about your own particular model as you do. Judges, by and large, are well-intentioned experts with all the human frailities we possess ourselves. Accept judging results, however skewed you may think they are, as a Gentleman or Lady, and with good grace. Congratulate the winner. Tell him/her what you admire about their model. Ask how they did something you like. Bear in mind Rule #1. Rule #3: Never, never, in fact, even fewer times than this, ever criticize a model in public. Keep your opinions to yourself. Just when you vocalize to your friend all the flaws you see in the model in front of you, the builder appears behind you. He's the size of Gary Kingzett and he has automatic weapons. Rule #4: If some obstreperous self-appointed "expert" holds forth on all the flaws and mistakes in your model in a loud and public voice, don't engage him in combat at his level. Thank him for his "discerning" eye. Tell him you appreciate his pointing out the incorrect shade of Haze Gray on your model, especially in front of everyone. Advise him that he is great while you are small and insignificant. Tell him you are not worthy. Smile as he turns red and puffy. Rule #5: If a builder wants "your honest opinion" on his model, focus on what you like. Don't criticize all the flaws. You are treading on tender sensibilities here when you do. You are creating enmity. You have just squashed and dismayed a budding builder. Basic psychology tells you that the builder really didn't want your "honest" opinion in the first place. He just thought enough of you to ask you to look at his model. Rule #6: Share what you know. Help out other modelers. Divulge your "secrets". You'll be a bigger winner than the person you're helping. Years ago, at an IPMS/USA Nationals, I overheard someone asking a particularly accomplished aircraft modeler how he scribed his exquisite panel lines. The modeler said "I can't tell you." "No, really, how do you do it?" was the inquirer's response. The modeler said again "I can't tell you. If I did, you'd be able to do it, too." And this modeler would then have had some more serious trophy-hogging competition at the next contest. I thought this was really sad and disheartening. I did feel better later, however, when I observed this modeler stomping out with his wife, each with an armful of trophies, enraged because he hadn't won all he felt he deserved. How sad. Rule #7: At competitions do this: enjoy yourself. Talk to people. Buy a kit. Buy two. Purchase a book. Have a beer with new folks. Smile. Remember Rule #1. Rule #8: Never enter into arguements with the judges. They did their job to the best of their abilities, and this took them hours. Hours spent tediously examining models while you were at the bar with your friends. The judges know judging is a thankless activity, but in their heart of hearts they'd, maybe just once, like to be thanked. Thank a judge. Rule #9: Don't complain to the vendors. Don't bitch that he released a state-of-the-art photoetched fret of parts in every scale but yours. Don't demand that he resin-cast some obscure ship just because you have dreamed about it since you were six. Don't take him to task for his decal sheet being slightly off-register. If he asks you and really wants to have your feedback, you could politely mention what you see. In most cases, though, he'll have an excellent idea of how his product stacks up by how it's accepted on the marketplace. Just for fun, THANK a vendor for producing a quality product that you actually bought. Rule #10: Never lose sight of Rule #1. Just an opinion, mind. Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild IPMS/USA #3345 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Large plane on ESSEX To Robert Norris Thanks for the information about the large planes on the ESSEX and on the FORRESTAL. That might be an interesting airplane for a modeler of either vessel to add to the flight deck. It would be quite a "conversation piece". Any chance of putting the notebook of pictures of the landing on the SMML site? That was quite an exercise for the LSO as well as for the pilot. Can you imagine the furor that would have been raised if something had gone wrong? Hoo-Boy!!!! Were there any other carriers involved in similar exercises? Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Roland Mar Subject: Contests, models, and Coasties I have watched the thread about contests, judging, and rules with a certain amount of detachment. While I have been building model ships off and on [mostly off] since I was 9 years old, I have never entered a contest. That is not what I build models for. I suspect that most modelers are like me, historians at heart. We want to see in 3-D the vessels [and winged things ;-)] we have read about. And like most historians, we don't mind sharing the knowledge we have picked up. Our reward is to see the light of understanding come on in someone's eyes, especially a child's. For fun, I spend a good deal of time and some money as a living history reenactor [1833-1865, mostly 1846, Army. Sorry, the Navy did not make it up the Arkansas River to Colorado.] portraying characters for elementary schools. My payment is watching kids suddenly jarred out of the MTV world and to have them for a moment see things as they were at critical times in the past. The greater reward for the amateur historian/modeler however, would be to bring back the memories of someone who dedicated a portion of his life to protecting us all. Those moments are both payback for the hours of effort, and a golden opportunity to speak with those people and ourselves to learn. Keep your ribbons and plaques. For those of us who choose to share our hobby, the rewards are literally in the eyes of the beholders. Roland Mar ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Masashi Ito Subject: Hasegawa website in English (plus their e-mail address) Hi, Anyway, here is Hasegawa's website in English: http://www.hasegawa-model.co.jp/e-w/E-index.htm Click on "Mail" on the leftside of the webpage, and you can then e-mail them directly from there. But just in case their e-mail address is: hsgeq@hasegawa-model.co.jp If their answer is not satisfactory, I may be able to help you (since Japanese is my native language) although I don't think I can tell you the "exact tones for painting," and you might have to be a little patient (depending on what you ask). I like Hikawa-maru; she has been in my hometown since 1961 as an attraction site. In summer her deck becomes a beer garden! Good luck, Masashi ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: paulship37@aol.com Subject: Interesting item on eBay I saw this item for sale at eBay. Warships of the USSR and Russia 1945-1995 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1554718764 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: exhibitions I again strongly agree with Michael Donegan's comments. Exhibitions are a blast. i really enjoy seeing the work of others and learning from those whose media are different or whose techniques are better than mine. So many resin and brass kits are available only on the internet that local hobby shops frequently can not act as a complete forum for the exchange of techniques or for viewing others' work. National level exhibitions can replace this community function, but not competitions. I received a great deal of help and support from Jon Warneke here locally as I began resin and brass modelling. It is that kind of interaction that helps promote not only our hobby, but understanding between people generally. Competition does none of that. Ted Tsaltas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Rod Millard" Subject: Re: IPMS And Judging Theres been so much controversy about the ship judging at the IPMS nationals let me ask this question. Is there any truth to the rumor that the Russian Mafia was seen around Va. Beach talking to different judges? Rod Millard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Mark W. McKellar" Subject: 75% of what? >> 75% of what? << displacement...... Just a guess. Mark Boston ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume