Subject: SMML VOL 1866 Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 12:45:06 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Attn: Token Yank 2: Re: Show costs 3: Re: Resin 4: Mariners, craftsmen revive elegant vessels 5: "So let it be written, so let it be done" 6: Re: IPMS and PE 7: Amateur historian/modeler 8: Rules 9: Re: USE OF SUPERGLUE & IPMS RULES 10: IRMS 11: Resin 12: to be judged or not to be judged that is the question 13: Questions 14: Re: resin kits 15: Bob Santos' competing ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Jeff Herne, NJAHOF" Subject: Attn: Token Yank The truth be known...the only reason John still wears his uniform is because HE CAN!!! I can't fit into my Class As anymore, married life, good cooking and a desk job have seen to that...so now I have a mannequin, and the uniform has gone from one dummy to another!! ;-) Jeff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Show costs >> I don't remember the bid amount for this show, but as comparison both the Phoenix and Orange County bids were projecting total costs in the $90-100K range. << Forgot to add, the venue is, by far, the most expensive item of a 4 day show. For each of these, it was easily about a third of the total fixed expenses. Next would be the trophy packages and the banquet. I seem to remember one of the bids having a line that the banquet would cost $30pp and they were allowing for 350 to attend for a total of $10,500! Just another reason I will never volunteer to be the Honcho of an IPMS National. If the Atlanta groups once again suffer from the temporary insanity needed to put a package together, I will help in any way requested- but I will follow, not lead! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: Resin >> OK I think I am about ready to bite the big one and try a resin model << Mike, It sounds like you're going over to resin ships for the same reason I did: unless I want to scratch build, I'm not going to find 1/350th scale WWII cruisers and carriers anywhere else. I'm sure others will chime in with kit recommendations, but for something simple and relatively easy, I have to recommend the WEM Reuben James in 1/350th scale. Fantastic casting, relatively few pieces, and large enough to work with. After building a few resin kits, you won't look at styrene kits the same way. Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: JRKutina@webtv.net (John Kutina) Subject: Mariners, craftsmen revive elegant vessels http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/134510887_tallships110.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: "So let it be written, so let it be done" >> I've been reading the thread about the IPMS Nationals. My question is this. How much did that show cost? Back in '97 my IPMS Chapter Delaware Valley Scale Modelers hosted a Regional contest and this costed $13,000. It was interesting to learn about the behind the scenes activities. << Craig, Here's few behind the scenes activities you may find interesting concerning the IPMS/USA 2003 National Convention. IPMS/USA provides statistics for the previous 10 years conventions, winning bids from 3 previous national conventions, post convention reports (these are VERY helpful when putting a bid together), and a booklet of Bidding Parameters for any chapter interested in bidding for a future IPMS/USA National Convention. As for the total cost of the 2002 convention, that will be made public in a future issue of the IPMS/USA Journal when the front office publishes their yearly budget. I don't want to speak about the cost our convention in Oklahoma City, but rest assured it's WAY above $13,000.00. IPMS/USA requires that we keep an accurate set of books spelling out where every dime for the convention goes. This is where a competent Treasurer can really help your bid. While IPMS/USA doesn't publish convention financial records that I know of, the total convention cost for each year is put into their published budget. How hotels and convention centers charge for their facilities varies greatly depending how the contracts are negotiated. Here's where an experienced Chairman earns his keep. Large hotel chains with attached convention facilities will usually cut or totally eliminate the cost of the convention ballrooms and meeting rooms depending on how many total hotel room nights are purchased for the event. In short, the more room nights you sell, the less the convention ballrooms and meeting rooms cost. For our convention in Oklahoma City the situation was totally different. We contracted with two hotels and a convention center since they are separate entities in Okla. City as opposed to the scenario above. So negotiating contracts required a completely different approach as well. For instance, since they had no convention space to offer us as incentive to sell room nights, our official convention hotel gave us a VERY good room rate ($99.00 per night) and gave us the seminar and meeting rooms we needed at no cost. "So let it be written, so let it be done." The second hotel offered us a similar deal. However, since we didn't need any meeting or seminar rooms (they were provided by the official convention hotel), I had them provide us the banquet hall (for the awards ceremony) at no cost. They agreed to provide the room at no cost IF we let them cater the banquet. "So let it be written, so let it be done." The convention center provided the biggest challenge to negotiate with. Since we already had all the meeting rooms, seminar rooms, and banquet hall taken care of, I had to think of something they could provide us as incentive so we could compete with the Dayton club. I told the reps from our convention center Dayton's convention center had no doubt given them some comparable incentive. Since our convention center is a separate entity, this was quite a problem to overcome. The answer I came up with was tables. National model conventions require a LOT of tables, and our convention center had a LOT of tables that they were going to no doubt charge us to use. I did some table layouts and figured out that we would require over 600 tables for our event. Since table cost was on the average $10.00 ea. to rent plus the cost of covering them, I asked the convention center to provide a large number of tables to our group at no charge to offset the incentive being offered to the Dayton chapter. At $10.00 per table, this added up to quite a savings for us while not costing the convention center a dime since they already had the tables in stock. So everybody was happy. "So let it be written, so let it be done." Depending on the hotel/convention center situation in your particular town, things can differ drastically when obtaining facilities for the event. There are a hundred things I haven't mentioned that go into the planning such a huge event as an IPMS/USA National Convention. That's where the experience of the Chairman and staff come into play. That's also why the E-board is so concerned about who the convention Chairman is, and the chairmen on his staff. Rusty White # 20181 Chairman, 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention http://www.ipmsmetrookc.org OKC In 2003! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: IPMS and PE >> I will not comment more on the plastic subject but I want to clear up one point of history. Modelers HAD heard of using PE 10 years ago. I used self-designed PE on a ship model that was the basis for a series of articles I wrote that appeared in the March 1984 issue of a ship model magazine. Figuring the magazine lead time, the model was started in 1983 which means I used PE almost 20 years ago. And some others including Loren Perry I think did so before that. << Bob, Check the post I made. I said (paraphrasing) Flagship (me) was the first to use a COMPUTER to produce master drawings for ship detail sets. I'm well aware of the contribution both you and Loren have made to the photo etch industry and I would never think of denying you that. I personally had Loren provide me with a history of GMM when I wrote the article for the 20 year anniversary issue of FSM. I gave Loren credit for his contribution then, but they chose to edit the manuscript. Rusty White Flagship Models Inc. Purchase online with your Visa/Amex/Discover/MasterCard http://www.okclive.com/flagship/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Roger/Sharon Torgeson" Subject: Amateur historian/modeler Your right on target Roland, especially with regards to veterans, I have mentioned before on SMML how I have made it a point to talk to any fellow I see wearing a ships ball cap from WW II. I have had the privilege to talk to and in some cases make friends with WW II veterans who lived what I can only read about in history books. I have met men who survived the sinking of the USS Astoria at Savo Island, the Indianapolis, were he was when the torpedoes hit , how he got off the ship what he say and heard and was very willing to talk about it all up till the time the sharks showed up. With in the last 6 months I have had the opportunity to talk with a sailor off the cruiser Raleigh who has since died and just last week a battleship Pennsylvania sailor who was on the ship from 1942 right up till the day before the atomic bomb was dropped on the ship in 1946. Most these guys are surprised that any one today knows what kind of ship they were on let along interested in what they did. Take the time to talk to these guys, who knows were a few minutes of your time will led. Four or five weeks ago a close friend I made this way, who was on the cruiser San Francisco called and said he had something I would like to see. 2 hours later in my left hand I had a Navy Cross from a San Francisco sailor, and in my right hand The Medal of Honor the same sailor died earning the night they took on the Japanese battleships. Was this experience worth the few minutes it took me to ask Lou Parker what he did on the San Francisco? You bet. Roger Torgeson ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: O'Connor Subject: Rules Bob Steinbrunn's ten rules were right on, but were unfortunately about a week and a half too late for some, who probably are not listmembers here anyway. The 2002 Nationals in Va Beach are history, and while enjoying the models there, I was witness to an unfortunate conversation on Saturday. It seems a modeler, who had entered a very nice F/A 18, was "showing" it to guests. She went on and on about how perfect it was (it WAS nice), but then entered into a criticism/comparison of her aircraft with another similar model- very vocally deriding the other kit in front of several folks. I looked up, to see a woman across the table from the modeler in question, eyes flaming, telling her husband to say something in his model's defense. The critic was oblivious to the affront she had caused, mostly because she was too busy impressing her friends. The second modeller took the high road, shook his head, and kept going. Although his wife would have loved to have ripped off the other modeler's head and stomped it in defense of her husband, the outcome would have been no different. The criticising modeller showed her true mettle-low class and arrogance, as well as faux expertise. The things I have learned about modeling and competition over the years were summed up in Bob Steinnbrunn's posting. I think those words should be posted at the entrance to every IPMS function, lest any of us become too big for our britches, or worse, forget from whence we came. Bob O'Connnor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Re: USE OF SUPERGLUE & IPMS RULES May I suggest to the person who said that one cannot use superglue with PE, as the former sets up too quickly, that he buy the thick type and let it become stale before use. It always worked for me. IPMS rules. When entering into a competition, LIE: This way, the rules will not apply to you. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: IRMS OK I am stupid, why is there not an IRMS for Resin only?? Seems to me that there is always going to be some sort of division, whether, professional or personal between plastic modelers and resin modelers - at list which we are talking ships - wouldn't it be simpler to have organizations specifically for resin modelers. The possibility, in my humble opinion, is that if resin catches on and becomes larger, as it seems to be doing, that the larger plastic model companies may give up producing any new ship models - because of dropping sales - is that a possibility?? Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Mike C" Subject: Resin To me, resin is just another medium to work in...something akin to an artist working in both oils and watercolors. Each requires its own techniques and disciplines, but it is the creativity of the artist/builder that makes the final creation special. These days, if you are an avid ship modeler, learning to work with resin is almost a necessity, unless you want to spend most of your time scratchbuilding with plastic. Once you start, there's no need to abandon plastic. I've been building models for more than thirty years and have worked with plastic, resin, paper, and even some wood kits. What was important was the subject matter and sometimes you just have to take what is available. As an aside, I have to agree with the rest regarding Bob Steinbrunn's guidelines for contests. Having attended conventions in all three capacities has allowed a perspective from different points of view. I'd endorse Bob's rules being included as an unofficial guide in future convention packages. Have fun, Mike C ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: to be judged or not to be judged that is the question as for me.. I build a kit or 2 each month for APMA. i know I will never get a gold (maybe not yet anyhow so maybe some years down the track..perhaps many many years), I build for something to do & also support the club by bringing stuff..as for judging, being the joke of some critics over about some of my kits (especially on Saturday (a runway that looks like a bike track!, lol) ..who cares ..its in the eye of the beholder.. I don't mind getting things judged, as long as judges are fair etc ... & if I win modeller of the year even better, though a times the competitor streak does come out & really wanna win stuff at end of year, but then I look at the "experts" & say good luck to 'em..they put the detail & professionalism in it, so why not let them win I am happy with what I build & if judges shoot me down to a bronze or a 1 pointer sobeit ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Sean Chew" Subject: Questions Hello, I'm very impressed with your website and think your gallery is great. I was wondering if one of your experts could answer a few questions (if they don't mind). I'm pretty new to building ships but not too bad at them. However I'm really bad with the rigging. Could someone please tell me what it's made of. Is it heated sprue, nylon, thread? What type of glue is needed? How on earth does someone know where to put them all? If anyone can help me it would be really appreciated. Sincerely Sean ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: resin kits In response to Michael's question about a first resin kit: I only work in 1/700, so if you choose this route I would recommend a destroyer or cruiser by Waveline or WSW. Both companies' kits are well-crafted and go together with no problems. After you feel more confident, you can start on more complex/larger kits or ones from companies that don't build out of the box as easily (but are fine kits nonetheless). Some advantages when thinking about choosing to start with 1/700 scale- larger selection of kits, cheaper (ie. you won't feel as much pressure about making a mistake or two plus you can opt to build something more than a tug or a destroyer to start with on a smaller budget), and being waterline kits, you won't have to worry about two-piece split hulls that many 1/350 full hull kits have, which don't look fun to work with at all. As for 'switching' exclusively to resin kits from styrene- why would you? In most cases, there's very little overlap between kits anyways. Want to build a 1/700 Yamato- your only choice is plastic. A 1/700 Maryland- only available in resin. If there is a model of a ship you want to build, then by all means build it, regardless if its in plastic or resin. I don't see the building materials (whether plastic, resin, metal, etc) as being mutually exclusive and I think it's silly to limit yourself to one or the other. In my collection, I have plastic, resin, and metal 1/700 ships and once built, you can't tell them apart. And truth be told, building resin or multi-media kits is not that different from plastic, so you won't derive some experience or pleasure from one that you wouldn't get to some degree with the other. Also, the best plastic kits out there are just as well-engineered and detailed as the best resin kits, so don't let people tell you that a resin kit automatically means a better, more detailed kit than plastic. (I've heard that as a reason someone only builds resin kits...) In other words, don't psyche yourself out by preparing to take the 'big plunge' into building a resin kit. It's just another model and treat it as such. My thoughts anyways. Yohan Fernando ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Bob Santos' competing Bob Santos signs his name: >> Bob Santos (who stopped competing years ago) << Quite possibly because he had so little meaningful competition! (chuckle) Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild IPMS/USA #3345 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume