Subject: SMML VOL 1870 Date: Wed, 14 Aug 2002 12:52:59 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: IPMS and Plastic 2: Re: Large Aircraft on Carriers 3: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws 4: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws 5: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws 6: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws 7: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws 8: USS New Jersey 9: From LOOSE CANNON 10: IRMS 11: Quick Trumpeter Box Reviews 12: Andrew Jones query ship model Frasier 13: HMS Chatham and new TV series 14: Re: Basic Modelling Flaws ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mccullough, Vincent" Subject: Re: IPMS and Plastic Burl Burlingame wrote: >> I may be wrong, but I always thought that resin WAS plastic.... << By one definition, resin = tree sap. That would make resin a wood product ;-), so the resin modelers should be lumped in with the "sticks and strings" crowd. Carrying this argument to the ridiculous, amber is essentially petrified tree sap/resin. So check out this link for what HAS be one of the first "resin" ship models! http://www.geo.uw.edu.pl/HOBBY/AMBER/ship.htm Vince McCullough ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "pnwa1@excite.com" Subject: Re: Large Aircraft on Carriers >> Another large aircraft to land on a carrier without arresting gear was an experimental aircraft that NASA Ames Research Center developed in the 1970s, the Quiet Short-Haul Research Aircraft (QSRA). At NASA's direction, Boeing modified a deHavilland C-8A Buffalo aircraft, replacing its two turboprops with four jet engines that directed their exhaust over the upper surface of a modified wing. The principle is similar to that used to generate lift for slow takeoff and landing with the Air Force C-17. The aircraft operated aboard U.S.S. Kitty Hawk in 1980, without requiring arresting gear or catapult launch. Unlike the C-130, you can't reverse the thrust on these engines by changing propeller pitch, and jet thrust reversers were not used. I was fortunate to see this aircraft during one of its last research flights in the early 1990s, and it was amazing to see how slowly it could fly. Pictures of the tests aboard the Kitty Hawk can be seen on these pages: http://ails.arc.nasa.gov/Images/Aeronautics/AC80-0641-3.html http://ails.arc.nasa.gov/Images/Aeronautics/AC80-0613-3.html http://ails.arc.nasa.gov/Images/Aeronautics/AC80-0613-4.html To bring this back into the modeling discussion, no one seems to make models of these special << Hello all, Ahhh yes, the winged and finned flying machines....Gotta love em :-) On to the question at hand.......does anyone know the primary recovery and support vessels used during the Apollo Program and which ones were assigned to particular missions? Bob Director-Pacific NW Aerospace NASA/JPL Solar System Ambassador Youth & Public Educational Outreach ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Jon Warneke Subject: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws Hi Darshan, Here are a few examples of "basic modeling flaws", not in any specific order: 1. Gaps in the seams where parts meet 2. Glue drops 3. Unpainted parts (if applicable) 4. Brush marks 5. Silvering of decals 6. Non-vertical masts (ship specific) 7. Misalignment of parts 8. Sprue stubs These are some of the major ones I've seen on a national level. Notice that things like color, accuracy specific to a model, drilled out gun barrels, and other such detailing issues are not included. Usually when judging, a majority of the models in a category will have one or more of these problems, which will cause them to not be considered further. Then, after this happens, is when you get into the anal-retentive parts of judging with the remaining three or four models. Jon Warneke IPMS #30977 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws I have been a judge. The most basic modeling flaws I have run across are failure to clean mold seams from parts and open seams between parts. Another that I have seen, surprisingly often, occurs in submarine models - especially U-boats. A model can look terrific from the perspective of standing and looking down on it, but when you squat down for a side-in view, light shows under the conning tower where it hasn't been mated flush to the deck. I have seen this in at least 3 builds of the 1:72 Amati U-boat. I generally don't count the occasional broken part if it is likely that happened accidentally during transport to the show. Ken Goldman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws >> But I haven't seen anywhere a description of what might constitute such as a "basic modelling flaw" I would very much appreciate if any correspondant could share with the list such information so that we at least may try our utmost to avoid such egregious errors in our endeavours {!!!} DW, Go to the IPMS/USA web site and find the Competition Handbook. It lists what judges look for in every category of modeling that can be entered at the National Convention. It's a bit difficult to find since it was moved from the home page so here's a direct link. http://www.ipmsusa.org/orgs.htm#IPMS/USA%20National I hope this answers your questions. Rusty White # 20181 Chairman 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention http://www.ipmsmetrookc.org OKC In 2003! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws >> But I haven't seen anywhere a description of what might constitute such as a "basic modelling flaw" I would very much appreciate if any correspondant could share with the list such information so that we at least may try our utmost to avoid such egregious errors in our endeavours {!!!} << Includes, but not limited to: visible glue spots; fingerprints in finish; masts out of vertical; yardarms out of horizontal (does not apply to sailing vessels); unfilled seams; parts unevenly joined; etc. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Basic Modeling Flaws Darshan wrote seeking information on basic modeling flaws. First off I would suggest that you go to the IPMS-USA home page and look through the online judges handbook. It gives a lot of information. In a nutshell, basic modeling flaws boils down to: Are there seams were there should be none? Are the seams filled? Are there gaps between parts? Are there sink marks or injection pin marks, or were they filled and sanded? Are there uneven mold parting marks? When you sanded down the filler putty did you remove surface detail and neglect to replace it? Did round parts stay round or did you file a flat side onto them? On a resin ship is there bubbles that were not filled/fixed? Is everything square and aligned properly? If you sight down the model does everything line up? Are the deckhouses perpendicular and square to the main deck line? If the mast is supposed to be vertical - is it? If the yards are supposed to be horizontal - are they? On wooden ship the yards are adjustable, but masts are almost always straight in the axial plane. There may be fore or aft rake in the masts. If something is supposed to be out of square - include that in documentation with the model.. If you are rigged - does your rigging pull a mast over? Generally beyond the youth categories - you need to apply paint. Is the paint applied smoothly and evenly (i.e. not grainy, orange peeled and no brush strokes are showing)? On a warship, is the paint glossy? If is should be - is it documented? If the real ship was painted with a broom and there should be brush strokes - please document it. Are things which should be painted in a straight line, such as boot-top line represented as straight or are there kinks and wavers in it? Is there paint that seeped under masking tape? Is there overspray? Are there noticeable "steps" in the paint from masking and applying successive coats of paint. If any of these "flaws" exist on the real object - please document it! Did you apply decals? Are they straight or kinked? Have they silvered? Have they been treated and coated to blend them with the surrounding paint? If a decal marking marking appears wrong - but that's the way it is on the real thing - please document it. Perhaps one of the biggest faults that no one catches until it is too late is is shiny super glue. The decks, hull, and rails are dead-flat, but there they are - shiny spots of super glue which were left. Hit them with a shot of flat - and they disappear. Check your model with a flashlight - the judges will. Note that nowhere in the criteria are the requirement that you add railings or etched details. If they are added they need to be aligned well with no extra gaps and be painted appropriately. One of the first regionals I ever judged had a Sprucan with unpainted nickle-silver rails. It was sort of like the modeler was trying to say 'Look what I added!'. The ship was considered to be incomplete and did not place. Note that nowhere in the criteria is a requirement that a ship be painted "accurately". If a modern US Navy ship is painted in a gray which is several shades too light or too dark for Haze Gray - that's okay. If a Canadian warship is painted in neutral gray when it should be in green-gray - that's okay. If a warship is hot pink - please provide documentation. A few years back there was a discussion about the USS Hornet with an incorrect camouflage application. The colors were wrong but they were applied well. It was judged as a minor flaw. Note that you do not have to rig your ship. If you do chose to rig your ship, is the size of the rigging material close to being in scale? Is the rigging taut where it should be or does it sag? Is the rigging symmetrical (i.e. are there fore stays and back stays on both sides of the ship)? Note that there is no requirement that you display flags correctly and according to protocol. Flags may be a hand painted, a rectangle of printed paper or a decal. If they are a decal - please trim the film close to the edge. A waterline ship doesn't have to be displayed with an ocean. Bases are not judged. It may be simply laid on the table or affixed to a wooden base. Bigger may be impressive, but it is not always better. Bigger gives you more opportunity to make mistakes. Small and clean often wins - and it drives the guys who built the big models to go get a rope and go looking for the judges Ed IPMS/USA National Qualified Ship Judge Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Mark W. McKellar" Subject: USS New Jersey Hi all, I will be visiting the New Jersey this Friday. Has anyone toured her since she opened? If so, can you give me some idea of what the guided tour includes? Can you roam the ship? Mark Boston ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Dafuelmann@aol.com Subject: From LOOSE CANNON To all the people at the NATs who sent an email to my hotmail account to get a price list: When I got home the mail box was full, so if your message bounced, please try again. Thanks to all the folks who dropped by the LCP Table at VA Beach. It was really nice to meet so many new people & renew old acquaintance's David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "graham and melanie" Subject: IRMS Hi Rusty over here at the mother of all IPMS or in english IPMS Modelworld show in Telford, We have seperate classes for plastic and resin, maybe this would help you. all the best graham (who will be judging ships again this year at the UKs major show with the help of the "token Yank") ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Quick Trumpeter Box Reviews We just got 4 new ship kits from Trumpeter today. Here are the "Quick Look" reports of what there is. 1/700 TRP5703 Soviet Kiev class "Carrier" MINSK $40 This kit has a sticker shock value to it - until the box is opened. First,. the kit is a two piece full hull with the waterlining so nicely done that the seam isn't noticeable in the bags. The flight deck and the armaments are finely engraved and the island is a single piece hollow molded affair with numerous platforms molded on. The radars have over scaled lattices to them, but at least they are not just solid plastic parts. The kit comes with 2 Kamovs and 2 Yak-28. This can easily be remedied with the addition of 1/700 Soviet Aircraft Set (Aoshima kit #513) with more than enough aircraft to fill up the flight deck. And the icing on the cake is a set of two pairs of handed brass propellors! TRP5702 USS New Jersey 1983 $23 TRP5701 USS Iowa 1984 $23 These kits proudly say "A cooperative project with Pit-Road Models" and the model show it. The hull is a two-piece waterline with a very snug fit (like the Minsk). The turrets are very nicely detailed with indiv. gun barrels WITH bloomers molded onto them. The rest of the detail is very nicely done, as well. The kits are exactly the same except for one small bit with different directors and tower detail. 1/144 TRP5903 Kilo Class SSK $25 The Kilo has been long awaited and is in 1/144 (a nice companion to the Romeo). The hull come in three pieces, with the top part being a waterline and two lower halves. The model comes with 2 props (a speed and patrol screw), bits and other details for the deck. Being a model SSK there isn't much in the way of details, but the boat does have a diameter of about 2.5" James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "James Baumann" Subject: Andrew Jones query ship model Frasier Aha!! so there is someone out there who shares my passion for ship modelling as well as the most excellent TV show EVER!!! Having watched Frasier since it first came to UK tv screens and(how sad is this?!) recorded every epidode ever screened in English AS WELL as in German (SAT 1 channel weds nite) for those who like an alternative appreciation of truly cool comedy... The ship model in question is I believe the WATERWITCH or it may be SEAWITCH by AURORA and is if I remember rightly a threemasted US Clipper moulded with some clunky injection moulded sails with spars attached in one piece...-when I was 9 years old I thought this was the best thing EVER!! The Frasier version is lacking a mast though.... I look forward to seeing David Griffiths 1/400 Corvette at the UK IPMS NATIONALS at Telford and would heartily agree that competitions are supposed to be fun, along with the building, researching, headscratching and swearing that make a model so worthwhile......! Having rigged a ship or two in my time I absolutely concur with all of Davids comments and suggestions re Rigging model ships and would like to add that I have found smoke to be the best means of tensioning stretched sprue rigging; however no longer being a consumer of tobacco I have found that Incense (Joss sticks) sticks give controllable and long lasting source of hot smoke for tensioning purposes as well as being bettter for your health (I was up to 40 cigs a day when rigging Dreadnought...) Looking forward to putting faces to names at the Nationals Regards to all out in SMML land JIM BAUMANN ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: MEDWAY Subject: HMS Chatham and new TV series I'm told that HMS Chatham is about to leave the UK to replace Nottingham on her deployment. No idea if she will visit Oz as Nottingham was en route to Kiwiland when she went aground. To my knowledge, a batch 3 Type 22 hasn't visited Australia before. ROYAL NAVY WARSHIP TO BE SET FOR NEW DRAMA SERIES Carlton Television is to go into production next year with a brand new drama set in the vivid, exciting world of the modern Royal Navy. MAKING WAVES will be produced - at sea and on land - with the full help and co-operation of the Royal Navy. The drama will be set on a Type 23 frigate, the mainstay of today's Royal Navy. There are 17 in the Fleet, able to operate anywhere in the world. The production will have full access to the Royal Navy's high tech training facilities, as well as their technical expertise and advice. MAKING WAVES charts the lives and adventures of the men and women who live and work on the fictional HMS Suffolk, as well as their families and loved ones ashore. Admiral Sir Nigel Essenhigh KCB ADC, First Sea Lord and Chief of the Naval Staff, says: "I am delighted that Carlton TV have decided to work with the Royal Navy on this series. Showing the Royal Navy in action on land, in the air and on the sea, will make for very exciting television and I am certain that our shareholders - the British public - will thoroughly enjoy watching this series." Ted Childs says: "I believe that the modern-day Royal Navy is a very appropriate setting for a contemporary drama series. The young men and women who make up the crew of a Royal Navy frigate lead a varied and exciting life. The high-tech world that is a warship at sea makes considerable professional and personal demands on all its crew members." Michael Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: " Harvey Low" Subject: Re: Basic Modelling Flaws Here are some basics that judges would look for: 1) Fit of parts (no gaps, no seams, no glue marks between parts, etc.); 2) Alignment (masts/yardarms are aligned, hull is not warped, superstructure is situated evenly to rest of ship, other parts are properly positioned, photo-etch parts are straight and properly applied (ex railings), etc.); and 3) Finish (no orange peel or runny paint, even coverage, smooth finish, no glue marks, no silvering on decals, etc.). 4) Scale effect (gun shields are thinned to proper thickness, rigging is of proper thinness, etc.). The following factors are deemed less important and are often confused with the above. These are the ones that generate the heated debate: 1) historical accuracy; 2) scope of effort; and 3) overall presentation. If you can't get the basics, then you're likely out of the race at the National level competitions. Face it, this holds true of any high level competiton (ex. martial arts kata competitions, figure skating etc.). Check out the IPMS USA Judging book on their website for more. Harvey Low IPMS Toronto ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume