Subject: SMML VOL 1872 Date: Thu, 15 Aug 2002 12:00:19 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Resin categories 2: Underway maintenance painting on models 3: Re: Weathering, rust, and other effects 4: Re: Model Paint Jobs 5: Mr Tredwell's Visit to Boston 6: Re: Quick Trumpeter Box Reviews 7: Project Apollo Prime Recovery Ships 8: Re: USS New Jersey 9: Re: Lies and Cheats 10: Re: New Jersey 11: Interesting item on eBay 12: Re: Model Paint Jobs 13: Re: USS New Jersey 14: Re: JB's shrinking rigging -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Mare Island Crane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Resin categories >> over here at the mother of all IPMS or in english IPMS Modelworld show in Telford, We have seperate classes for plastic and resin, maybe this would help you. << Graham, I love hearing from you guys on the other side of the pond. A few years back some your friends were over here watching how the IPMS/USA Convention was done from the inside. They sat in on the Contest Committee Meeting and were a lot of fun to have in attendance. I never knew there so many differences between the Telford event and the US Nationals. Quite a learning experience for all. Consider this my personal invitation to you and all your friends to attend the IPMS/USA Nationals in Oklahoma City next year. About the separate resin class. Correct me if I'm wrong, but does the UK not award bronze, silver, and gold medals? If this is correct (I'm pretty sure it is) then adding a resin class would not be a real problem awarding medals in this manner. However, this would create a LOT of new categories (and expense) for a national convention in the US. For instance, our ship categories are broken down into sub categories (as yours are) that we award 1st, 2nd and third place awards for. Creating a resin category would add 24 awards (we have 8 sub categories that would require a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd) to the ship categories alone! Adding just a resin ship category IMHO would cause an unfair advantage for some models. You would have modern subs competing with WW2 era battleships etc. Obviously, what we do for one category must be considered equally across the board for all categories. So this would add a LOT of extra awards the host chapter would need to get sponsors for in the end from Nationals funds. This post isn't meant to start a flame war over the medals Vs the 1st, 2nd, 3rd method of awarding places. I'm just want to point out why it wouldn't work with the way our awards are currently issued on the national level in the US. Rusty White # 20181 Chairman 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention http://www.ipmsmetrookc.org OKC In 2003! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Underway maintenance painting on models Michael Donegan wrote in SMML1871 "Which brings me to another point. If you actually did that [fresh paint patches] to a ship and entered into a contest. Wouldn't it be disqualified for having a basic flaw in not having a "perfect" paint job, even though you were duplicating what a real ship may look like." Actually, that is something Jon Warneke and I discussed while judging at the recent Nats. Unlike aircraft and armor models which may often have individual panels painted and weathered differently, ship models have traditionally been painted in a monotone color. It may go back to the concept of "museum" models where everything is perfect. Weathering has often been limited to a few streaks of rust. As a judge, I do not think I would count splotches of red lead or fresh paint on the side of a ship as a flaw against the model as long as it was executed well. The "perfect" paint job is something which is related to the methods of paint application on the model more than color. Is the paint applied evenly and smoothly, or are there gaps, grainy appearance and "orange peeled"? Is there a run in the paint? Is there a thumbprint in the paint? Are there visible brush strokes in the paint? The red lead or fresh paint comes down to your method of application and the presentation. If you spray your patch and it has 1:1 scale feathered edges - not 1:350 (or other appropriate scale) edges - it will look like it is a flaw in your application - not the real thing. If you can mask your spot or tune your brush down so that it looks like the scale deck apes have applied the paint patch in a scale manner it will be an effective presentation and not judged as a flaw. As always, if you have a reference of a real world foul-up that you are replicating - include it to make the judge's job easier. Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: Weathering, rust, and other effects >> To me this would all be part of weathering. There is more to weathering than just RUST! A lot of ships, especially the larger ones have a lot of patch work paint jobs, usually done by a paint roller. << The real question is; would this effect show up on a 1/350 or 1/700 scale model? I doubt it, but I'm sure there are exceptions. Few judges have been in the position you have (I live in Oklahoma for gosh sake!), so we have to rely on what we see on the model, and how well the technique to produce the effect was executed. So if you go to the trouble to show rust, patchwork touchups, oil stains, etc., be sure to mention this on your entry form so the judges can evaluate your efforts. Too often modelers assume the judges know exactly what they are trying to create on their models. WE DON'T KNOW EVERYTHING ABOUT SHIPS. And anyone who says they do should have their statements taken with a large grain of salt. For all we know it could just be a crappy paint job at such a small scale. Never forget that all this can work against you as much for you depending on how well your techniques are executed. Rusty White # 20181 Head IPMS/USA Ship Judge Chairman 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention http://www.ipmsmetrookc.org OKC In 2003! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Model Paint Jobs >> Which brings me to another point. If you actually did that to a ship and entered into a contest. Wouldn't it be disqualified for having a basic flaw in not having a "perfect" paint job, even though you were duplicating what a real ship may look like? << Not at all, Mike. Just be sure to stick a couple of appropriate photos alongside for the judges to see. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/white.ensign.models/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: Mr Tredwell's Visit to Boston Hello, I also had the pleasure of being a guest of Franklyn Brown's at last weeks meeting of the "USS Constitution Model Shipwright Guild of New England" and the pleasure of hearing Mr. Treadwell recount his time on the Wooden Subchasers of WWII. I met them at the Navy Yard as I hail from the north of Boston. Might I also say having been present, His class of ship is now on my "To build List". Having read Mr. Treadwell's note I had to write and confirm his views. Franklyn is a wonderful host and a great correspondent, as our e-mails have been flying fast and furious ever since. (Furious as in with Great Vigor, not angrily!) I do hope to join the guild at the next meeting, I'm sure my poor skills will benefit greatly from this association. Thank You Franklyn. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: Quick Trumpeter Box Reviews To Mr. Corley, and anyone else who has seen them, Some questions: >> TRP5703 Soviet Kiev class "Carrier" MINSK $40 << 1. Is this one truly 1/700? 2. Do it look like they will release a Kiev and a Novorrysk (sp), e.g. is the port platform at the forward end of the flight deck a separate piece? >> TRP5702 USS New Jersey 1983 $23 TRP5701 USS Iowa 1984 $23 << 3. Do any of or all three models come with PE brass? Thanks! Joe Poutre ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Robert & Rose Brown Subject: Project Apollo Prime Recovery Ships Hi there: Here is a list of the prime recovery ships used for Project Apollo, back in the days when spacecraft actually went somewheres, instead of just around and around. I have no data on other support vessels. Apollo 7 - USS Essex (CVS-9) 22OCT68. Crew: Schirra, Cunningham, Eisele Apollo 8 - USS Yorktown (CVS-10) 27DEC68. Crew: Borman, Lovell, Anders Apollo 9 - USS Guadalcanal (LPH-7) 13MAR69. Crew: McDivitt, Schweickart, Scott Apollo 10 - USS Princeton (LPH-5) 26MAY69. Crew: Stafford, Cernan, Young Apollo 11 - USS Hornet (CVS-12) 24JUL69. Crew: Armstrong, Aldrin, Collins Apollo 12 - USS Hornet (CVS-12) 24NOV69. Crew: Conrad, Bean, Gordon Apollo 13 - USS Iwo Jima (LPH-2) 17APR70. Crew: Lovell, Haise, Swigert Apollo 14 - USS New Orleans (LPH-11) 09FEB71. Crew: Shepard, Mitchell, Roosa Apollo 15 - USS Okinawa (LPH-3) 07AUG71. Crew: Scott, Irwin, Worden Apollo 16 - USS Ticonderoga (CVS-14) 27APR72. Crew: Young, Duke, Mattingly Apollo 17 - USS Ticonderoga (CVS-14) 19DEC72. Crew: Cernan, Schmitt, Evans Cheers Rob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Re: USS New Jersey Hi Mark To tour the USS New Jersey is by group. Twenty people and a tour guide. They allow roaming on your own as other museums do. I believe they have installed elevators for handicapped people to use instead of the walkways. You begin at the bow go to the the first two 16 inch gun turrets and then you go up on the bridge area. The 16 inch turrerts were closed although they have diagrams and some shells setup for viewing. From the bridge area you tour to behind the first stack and then you go inside. You see the wardroom, cic, radio room, admiral quarters, officer quarters, and enlisted quarters. Then emerge back on the main deck and you walk back to heliopad.and the tour is done. In the near future other area such as the boiler areas,engine room are supposed to be open. As for weather. It's been clear skies with the temperatures in the upper 90's with matching humidity. Thursday thunderstorms are supposed to come thru and maybe break the heat wave. I hope this is of help. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: Lies and Cheats GOOD ONE!! LOL. It reminds me of Samuel Johnson's remark (I think it was his) when a woman spoke to him about his notoriously poor bathing habits. 'Sir, you smell', she said. 'No, Madam, you are mistaken. I stink. You smell'. Ted Tsaltas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: New Jersey I visited the ship in late July. It is both impressive abd disappointing. If you have been to the Alabama in Moble you will not get nearly so good a tour. You do, however, get to experience the size and complexity of the ship. Here is what is open- Main battery turrets 01 deck (with many displays) navigation bridge main deck with crew areas and radio room Admiral and Captain's quarters 5 inch turrets can be viewed but not entered Here is what is NOT open- engine rooms conning tower magazines more modern fire control and communications areas anything below the main deck areas around the cruise missile sites Remarkably, I was told the ship remains subject to SUN recall on 6 month notice, which is why the magazines and other areas can not be opened. I know nothing of the Missouri and how much of it can be accessed. The Alabama is a MUCH more complete tour- I went over that ship from the triple bottom to the top of the superstructure. Cost is, as I recall, 17.00 per adult. The tour is self-guided. Ted Tsaltas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: paulship37@aol.com Subject: Interesting item on eBay I saw this item for sale at eBay. BEHIND THE FLEETS A.D. Divine http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1556204512 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Model Paint Jobs From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com >> Which brings me to another point. If you actually did that to a ship and entered into a contest. Wouldn't it be disqualified for having a basic flaw in not having a "perfect" paint job, even though you were duplicating what a real ship may look like. << I have had this happen at local & regional shows - the judging teams under me wanted to know if such a job was acceptable, and I always answered that I'd been on ships painted as such. Of course, there's no telling how many times the teams didn't ask me. If the difference was too distinct, then it became an issue of judgment and opinion, but when it was subtle and especially when it was noted, the benefit of the doubt was given to the model. If the paint job is really bad, there are usually enough other basic flaws to eliminate a model from competition. My personal opinion on ship painting, camouflage schemes, weapons modifications is that the modeler can usually justify what was done if he is given the opportunity. The HORNET Ed mention is a case in point - we knew the colors were wrong but two of us seemed to remember reading somewhere that the colors used were correct for the scheme and therefore the model was not punished because the builder found bad research material. (older "references" are usually wrong, especially 1960s & 1970s stuff) On the other hand, when a gun turret is installed wrong, a missile arm is upside-down and backwards, a radar is built completely wrong, or even when the model does NOT match the photo provided - then no "wiggle room" is yielded. James ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Darren Subject: Re: USS New Jersey >> I will be visiting the New Jersey this Friday. Has anyone toured her since she opened? If so, can you give me some idea of what the guided tour includes? Can you roam the ship? << Hi Mark, I was on the NJ a couple of weeks ago. The tour takes you all over the ship inside and out and is quite comprehensive. There are a few spaces down below not opened yet, including the engine room, but these will added later this year. There are volunteers at many stations around the ship willing to describe that areas operations. We were able to shake the tour early on and wander through at our leisure. She is in great shape and worth the visit, but be warned, Camden is not the nicest of places. Don't go a wandering off the main streets! The area with the NJ is ok though and a parkade is available reasonably close. Take lot's of money for the gift store! Darren Scannell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Darren Subject: Re: JB's shrinking rigging >> Having rigged a ship or two in my time I absolutely concur with all of Davids comments and suggestions re Rigging model ships and would like to add that I have found smoke to be the best means of tensioning stretched sprue rigging; however no longer being a consumer of tobacco I have found that Incense (Joss sticks) sticks give controllable and long lasting source of hot smoke for tensioning purposes as well as being bettter for your health (I was up to 40 cigs a day when rigging Dreadnought...) << Jim, Have you tried a hair dryer? I use invisible thread (Nylon line) for rigging and the same technique may work for stretched sprue. I put the dryer on high heat, low air flow. It is perfect for heating the line evenly for a smooth shrink without getting too hot to cause it to break. You can slowly move it closer until shrinkage occurs and it won't affect the rest of the model. Darren Scannell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Hubert Letterly Subject: Mare Island Crane >> I then went down into drydock one & took some really great pictures & also climbed up into the cabin of one of the huge shipyard cranes. Yeah, like I'm bidding on one of them... << You can now have your own crane and not have to bid on it although it is hard to climb into the cabin. Loose Cannon has two photo etched 1/700 crane sets that were shown at Virginia Beach IPMS show that has a Mare Island crane included in the set. There is also a huge Hammer Head crane like the one in Norfolk along with a RR flatcar crane, barge crane along with two other yard cranes. They sell for $20 a set which includes the resin parts. Colpar Hobbies and Pacific Front Hobbies should have them in a week or two. Any dock diorama looks absolutely naked without them. It's as bad as leaving an anchor off a ship. : :>) Hugh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume