Subject: SMML VOL 1901 Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 00:33:13 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: oz Vs Texas 2: Best place to live! 3: Re: Best place to live 4: Re: "Don't Tread on me" Flag 5: Re: the best place to live! 6: Re: Don't Tread on Me Flags 7: Battleships and a note on "History" 8: Chicago Show? 9: Need hull number 10: Re: Araidne 11: Re: International scope 12: Nautilus Models U-Boat update 13: V/W Class Destroyers 14: The Iowa Saga 15: Watching Paint Dry 16: To John Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: oz Vs Texas Well an Aussie here! antipodal types?! well at least in Oz we can state things here are bigger than Texas! we have farms that are bigger than Texas & some are I think bigger than the G.Britain! Just cuz you guys have/had a BB named after your state & all we had was a Battle Cruiser! think you guys win on big ships with that but everything else..we win hands down! Maybe the Aussies should have a model comp against the Texans wonder what things Texans are ashamed of .... I think us aussis are only ashamed about the "crocodile hunter" lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Best place to live! OK Shane, I can see you opened a can of worms - now in your defense about Texas, we here in the states tolerate Texans, only because we know how hard it has been for them to accept the fact that they are no longer the largest state in the Union since Alaska was admitted as the 49th state in 1959 - and they have never been the same. Now Arizona was the last state admitted, that was not outside the USA borders. Every state around New Mexico and Arizona were already states - someone must have just given up and said, "What the heck, let them in." Nope, the best place has to be Oklahoma, "God's Country" just above Texas, in the middle of the Good Old USA - YEEE HAWW!! Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Best place to live Please be reminded that "Be it ever so humble, there is no place like home". Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: "Don't Tread on me" Flag Obviously a politicians idea as that flag has been reserved for the oldest ship in the fleet, that being the KITTY HAWK - or I could just keep my mouth shut and say that we crew members and former crew members of the KITTY HAWK have always been "politically correct" Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Ron Wild" Subject: Re: the best place to live! You obviously haven't put in a full winter in Alberta. (course it depends where in Alberta). Move to the coast of British Columbia, where there are lots of boats and ships to observe and better yet try the Okanagan Valley. (which is about 200 miles inland on Okanagan Lake) It's almost paradise. Ron in Kelowna BC ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: CapnAgee@aol.com Subject: Re: Don't Tread on Me Flags I haven't seen the stories about the new Scretary of the Navy order to fly the Don't Tread on Me flags on all ships yet, but I seem to remember that there are at least two designs carrying the snake and motto. One shows a Snake and the motto on a field of red and white stripes. This has been traditionally carried on the oldest commissioned ship in the Navy. The second design carries the snake and motto on a solid yellow field. I'm sure the old US Navy types can set me straight if I'm wrong ... what the heck, I spent 20 years in the Air Force. Ray Agee ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Battleships and a note on "History" Erik, The armor piercing rounds referenced are APDSFS (Armor Piercing, Discarding Sabot, Fin Stabilized). They consist of a long, thin, finned "penetrator" (usually referred to as a "Long Rod"), much like a dart, made of depleted Uranium. The penetrator is surrounded by a housing which fits the bore of the rifle (the "sabot"), and breaks away when the projectile leaves the barrel. The penetrator is non-explosive. That said, it is irrelevant. Soviet anti-shipping missiles, from the original Styx and its improved Chinese cousins, through the latest models, are fitted with shaped charge warheads which use a jet of plasma to cut through the armor. And the armor is only 12" on the sides. The decks, where bombs usually hit, are more lightly armored. The anti-torpedo belts protect against warheads striking the sides of the hull, but modern torpedoes are programmed to explode beneath the keel of a ship, breaking its back. It may have taken 20 torpedoes, and numerous bombs to sink the Musashi. It may have taken 4 1/2 hours to sink. But in the end, it sank, with all its guns, all its armor and all its crew. If all the attacking planes were destroyed in the raid (and they weren't) it would still be a massive victory for the aircraft. The Roma was sunk by a single, primitive, missile. It may not have totally disintegrated when the magazines blew up, but it still sank. The size of the pieces littering the seabed has never been a reliable benchmark of survivability. Battleships were designed to slug it out with other battleships. The winner was the ship which could continue to fight and pound its opponent to junk, while itself being pounded to junk. When inexpensive platforms, first torpedo boats, and later aircraft, unbalanced the equation, the battleship was doomed. This is even truer in an age of cruise missiles. Time marches on. Let the sleeping dead lie. (One additional note: the box launchers for the Harpoon and Tomahawk missiles are armored.) Notes on History: According to one of my college professors, History is the study of mankind's written records (the study of artifacts is Archeology.) Until recently, all records were written, unless an event was recent enough for witnesses to survive. A fact is a statement about an event ("truth" is not a factor.) Primary sources are facts written at the time of the event (i.e. newspapers.) Secondary sources are facts written after the event (i.e. history books.) A historian's job is to try to ascertain "truth" and assign motivations based on facts. The worst insult you can call an Historian is "monocausationist" ( i.e. "The Civil War was caused by slavery.", "The French Revolution was caused by a shortage of cake among the peasants.") Edd ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: westguy7@attbi.com Subject: Chicago Show? Anyone know where to get details about a model show in Chicago this coming week? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Need hull number Does anyone know the hull number of the LST the caught fire or blew up at Pearl Harbor during the war. I understand part of her is still there. Appreciate any info or details anyone can give me in my research for this ship. Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "John Sutherland" Subject: Re: Araidne Mike, Araidne had at least three schemes during the war years then peacetime ones (she went from Sep 43 to 1971.) There are also a number of arnament and radar fits too, as would be expected. For most of the time she was in an light admialty disruptive scheme (B55, B30, G15). She then served briefly with the Americans (and had her twin hazzlemeyers exchanged for standard US twin 40mm for some reason which she kept). Not sure what she was during that deployment - possibly US scheme. She would have finished the war in standard admiralty dark hull / light upper works scheme - not sure which colours though - possibly G10/B55 if my interpretation of Polish is correct). Best reference for these cruisers is probably the Profile Morskie book even though it is in Polish. It specifically features Araidne - including diagrams. Best regards John Sutherland PS. Would be interested to hear of what you think of the Waveline kit. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: International scope The TV tourism adverts for Texas refer to it as "a whole other country." The rest of us should be so lucky. Ken Goldman Glendale (Los Angeles County) California ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Evenden Chris" Subject: Nautilus Models U-Boat update Hi All, I was wondering if someone can give me some details as to the composition, cost and availablity of the Nautilus Models update for the Revell U-99 kit. Thanks, Chris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Brett Morrow" Subject: V/W Class Destroyers Is there someone out there who can help me with a question concerning Australian V/W class Destroyers during WW2. I am doing a kit of H.M.A.S. Waterhen prior to her sinking in 1941 but am having a lot of trouble establishing the secondary armament (A.A. weapons)fitted. I`ve researched several books but am getting conflicting information concerning the fitting of quad Pom Pom`s or quad Vickers 0.5" fitted to the gun platform abaft the after funnel,and the after set of torpedo-tubes removed to make way for a 12 pounder gun.I can`t see two quad PomPoms abreast of each other on a ship of this size! Surely they have to be Vickers? Have been in contact with several possible sources of information including the naval historical society Garden Island and Canberra but it would seem that simple free information comes tough, coz they never get back to you. If someone could clarify these questions for me,It would be much appreciated. Thanks, Brett M. Penrith N.S.W. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Rule" Subject: The Iowa Saga >> Battleships are expensive, but the big guns can carry out jobs not possible in any other way - but so could the airship. My argument is, that battleships has a value today. Whether this value is big enough to justify the cost, is not for me to judge. I am not American, so the fact that USA is giving up the battleships is okay with me - My country gave them up 100 years ago. << After reading the above paragraph, albeit out of context, the solution came to me. It was the mention of the word airship that did it. If the USN tied the Iowas to a large number of helium filled balloons at various heights above the ship so that it could soar into battle then these behemoths could become very useful indeed. 1. They would be immune to torpedo attack. 2. Aircraft would be limited to fighting them with Sidewinder air to air missiles. 3. The cables and balloons would act as a deterrent to attack from above. 4. They could get a lot closer inshore and thus increase their effectiveness on inland targets. 5. In the event that a gun or turret is taken out by a Laser Guided Bomb, the 16" shells can be contact fused and rolled over the side as aerial bombs. 6. With the latest technology the balloons could be made self sealing, to increase their defence against gun toting aircraft. Now if only Ronald Regan were still President............................. Sorry I couldn't help it! John Rule (Ontario, Canada) PS The most beautiful and desirable place to live is Scotland, if only the weather would permit it. At least in Canada we get a summer. (If anyone mentions the winter, it may be the last words they speak.) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "John Rule" Subject: Watching Paint Dry A few weeks ago I posted that I had a problem after spraying a Skyraider AEW 1, because the paint was still tacky after 24 hours. The problem solved itself. The paint is now dry. I can't remember how much Glenmorangie it took, but that has to be the slowest drying paint. John Rule ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: royrichey@att.net Subject: To John Snyder I agree, I did assume that. All I know is that if you want to find out something you do in fact read several sources. I do however remember what my kids told me, 'reading is hard and takes too much time.' Roy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume