Subject: SMML VOL 1904 Date: Wed, 04 Sep 2002 13:24:03 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: WSW Lutzow 2: Texas?? 3: Re: Best Place to Live 4: Re: "fish tank" diorama 5: Re: Third best place to live... 6: My what a PS can start... 7: lightship colors 8: Re: Best Place to Live - A Climatological Reflection 9: Re: model water above & below surface 10: Kashtans/CADS-N-1 in 1/700? 11: Underwater sub diorama 12: Question about old ocean liner in movie 13: Re: An Unrelated Battleship Question 14: Best Place to Live 15: Articles from Warship Volume XII 16: Re: Best place to live 17: IJN Aoba 18: Re: Oldest Ship-Constitution 19: train modelers-Walthers 20: Re: sub diorama 21: Kudos to W.E.M. on Hood Set 22: Re: HMS Shikari & MTB 107 23: JB'S RIGGING 24: Re: An Unrelated Battleship Question 25: Re: sub diorama 26: last final word on BB's 27: Oregon Kit on Ebay 28: SS Canberra 29: Re: Battleships 30: Modeling USS Ingersoll DD-990 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Free Shipping at TridentHobbies.com 2: Online Ship Contest - Again! 3: Book for Sale ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Re: WSW Lutzow Kathy/Pirie, It does sound like your model has not cured completely, and is still outgassing. You're cure is to let it cure, preferably some place well vented so you don't have to smell it. Leaving it in the case traps the gasses and prevents it from releasing more. This does happen sometimes with resin models if the resin isn't mixed properly. Joe Poutre ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: BSteinIPMS@aol.com Subject: Texas?? >> If you like Texas, you're welcome to stay. If you don't like it ' then PLEASE LEAVE!!! << Once, long ago, I was a flight instructor at the U.S. Army Primary Helicopter School, Ft. Wolters, Texas. At an outlying stagefield (practice airfield) with my three students one day, I was in the latrine and noticed these sage words scribed upon the wall: Does no good... to stand on seat... crabs in Texas... jump ten feet... Burma Shave Just an observation, mind. (grin) Bob Steinbrunn Minneapolis Nautical Research Guild ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Russell_Lessard@aigvalic.com Subject: Re: Best Place to Live As a current, proud resident of Texas... having lived in both the East and Western parts of the state, I must say we have a beautiful country down here. Of course, you all do continue to refer to us as a state. ;-) Do I detect a hint of jealousy from the non-Texans on this list? You know... we've got bumper stickers for folks like you... "I wasn't born in Texas... but I got here as fast as I could." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: "fish tank" diorama To David Brock Try experimenting with thinned paints ( a"wash" effect) to get what you like. Try a glass company, looking for a textured (one side) sheet of glass for the sea surface. Properly painted it makes a great (relatively) calm surface . Cutting it for the hull to project through could be difficult. It might be better to cut the hull and epoxy it to each side of the glass. You might be able to find some at a building wrecking yard, it used to be quite popular in office doors, to provide a degree of privacy. It might be worth while to buy the entire door if you have to, and sell of that which you don't need. Perhaps you also could investigate someplace that sells a similar sheet plastic. Go for it. Please share your findings with SMML. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Erwin Van Deynze Subject: Re: Third best place to live... As more and more are chiming in this way OT thread, guess I'll throw mine in too... Belgium is not the best place to live in, but according to some UN-report it's the third best place... can't say I'm not modest :-) BTW don't know who scored first and second, believe it were some scandinavian countries... Denmark and Sweden??? Erwin (Thinking about moving north, if it wasn't for the cold :-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: My what a PS can start... Hello All, As it seems it was my PS that started the Great Hysteria Channel Debate, let me clarify my position. I would not expect any one source to be 100 percent correct, the Front page of my local paper in April of 1912 reported the Titanic under tow to New Foundland, clearly an error. And Yes, for those of us that read, multiple sources, followed by the winnowing out of useless drivel, is the quest for truth as best we can accomplish. And for those that say, "History Never Changes" Beware, there lies the road to perdition. When the above mentioned Liner took her last plunge, a small minority of Passengers said she broke in half. The Vast majority of Passengers and Crew said She did not and the Minority were rather loopy. Low and behold, 80 years later, the minority were correct, She did break in two. My Greatest Complaints with the Hysteria Channel, is that they perport single opinions to be the "TRUTH, WHOLE TRUTH, AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH." While many of their shows are replete with glaring errors. This I attribute to the fact that they primarily purchase their shows rather than produce them, But it is their fault when they purchase and then promulgate non-sense. I do not fear for the knowledge of this August company, but for those that take TV as gospel, what used to be called "The Great unwashed Masses." I work Part time in a Hobby shop, and have oft been greeted by people trying to find models of Nazi Aircraft that never existed, from a show called "Luftwaffe '46" We all know there was nothing left of the Luftwaffe in 1946, the entire premise of the show was "If the Allies had backed off and let the Germans Regroup, this is what we would have faced in 1946." The Allies were not stupid THEY WOULD NOT HAVE BACKED OFF TO LET THE GERMANS REGROUP, one doesn't help your enemy in all out war intentionally. Not only that, it denied the fact that the Germans were cut off from their source of War Material, The allies found factories with depots full of New Weapons, that were never used, because the Germans didn't have the fuel to move them. It is this lust to produce If Histories, that they then purport to be REAL that I find most distressing. Unlike us, Most people do not persue the quest for truth beyond what someone tells them, and when the source is mostly unreliable, the fiction becomes "The Truth". I was also confronted by a man who told me that "Only the Germans could get a Jet into the Air in WWII." I asked him if he had heard of the Gloster Meteor, he had not, The Lockheed P-80, He had not, Did He know that Caprioni built a jet during the war, He did not, Did he know that Nakajima built one but it never became operational, No. He said his point was that only the Germans had operational Jets in WWII. I reminded him that the Gloster Meteor was operational in Europe during the war, it just never met an Me-262, also, we were shooting Me-262's down with propeller driven planes. Also though little has been made of it, the American P-80 (later F-80, Shooting Star) though in small numbers (3) Was operational in Italy during the war. It also never met another Jet during that conflict. The long belabored point is, The Nazis for some unknown reason are popular with the public, and the History Channel buys everything they can about them, no matter how rediculous the claims of the producers. Because it sells. The Majority of the viewers do not research to check to see how far from the truth these shows are, and as more people accept drivel as Gospel, As time goes on, non-sense become History, And correcting the problem becomes like shovelling back an avalanch with a tooth pick. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: lightship colors >> Help--I have an Eastern Express re-issue of the old 1/110 scale Frog/Revell "Trinity House Lightship (South Goodwin)." Does anyone have the instruction sheet that provides a color scheme--the box art shows a hull that is either red or orange, but the instructions give NO reference for hull, deck or deckhouse colors. The Russian instructions are minimal at best, so any help, especially with a Humbrol color number is most appreciated. << though the following relate to US lightships and lighthouses, the links may prove useful: http://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/h_lhindex.html http://www.lighthousemuseum.org/ http://www.topsitelists.com/bestsites/lighthouses/topsites.html IIRC, lightships, in the US, were traditionally painted red for the hull, white for the deckhouses, tan for the masts. there were exceptions. if you tap into lighthouse fans and their websites, you may receive more than you asked for! shirley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Joel Labow Subject: Re: Best Place to Live - A Climatological Reflection General Phil Sheridan of US Civil War fame once said that "If I owned both Hell and Texas, I'd rent out Texas and live in Hell!" Joel Labow ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: model water above & below surface >> Questions: Am I on the right track here? Should I paint all 4 sides of the tank or only 1 or 3 sides? Should I leave the surface clear or paint the bottom of acrylic with same transparent paint? I need to make a little bit of water surface texture and I think it needs to be very clear. I've got some extra heavy gel medium & it dries to a whiteish, semi-clear color, not too pretty. What can I use to make a little rolling water surface action? << Arthur, I had articles on doing this in the June 1987 (using stained glass window plastic) and July 1991 (Using acrylic gel over plexiglass) issues of Fine Scale Modeler showing different methods of making the water surface and a fool-proof way to cut the holes for the floating objects. I'm working on an even better method right now but I'm in the experimental stages. Cheers, Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Poutre, Joseph A" Subject: Kashtans/CADS-N-1 in 1/700? I building a Testors/Italeri Varyag, and while there are several problems with the model, I can fix most of them. However, the Kashtan point-defense systems included with the model are dreadful. Does anyone make a good replacement for them, or am I going to have to scratchbuild? I do have the old Skywave Soviet set and it does not include them. Joe Poutre ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Kelvin Mok Subject: Underwater sub diorama >> I need to make a little bit of water surface texture and I think it needs to be very clear. I've got some extra heavy gel medium & it dries to a whiteish, semi-clear color, not too pretty. What can I use to make a little rolling water surface action? << I always wanted to try this but never got around to it. You are probably familiar with the soft clear gel wax they use for making curios.. Some of them simulate an aquarium scene with bits of stones, coral and plastic fish. That wax should give you an excellent simulation of a tank full of water with a sub in it. You can texture it too. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Axel Wolters [Rsb.Terlinden]" Subject: Question about old ocean liner in movie Hi SMMLies, last weekend I saw an old movie in the TV. "The last voyage" or "The last voyage of the CLARIDON". Its an american movie from 1959 starring Robert Stack andd Dorothy Malone. It tells the story of an ocean liner "Claridon", a two funnel-ship, whose engine blows up and the ship later sinks. Most of the scenery deals about a dramatic rescue-action of Dorothy Malone, who is trapped in her cabin due to the explosion. I like old passenger ships (besides my other field: IJN ships in 1:700 scale) and so my question is: Does anybody know, which ship played the role of the "Claridon"? Maybe a ship of the at that time very famous "Presidents Line". I have an old PYRO Kit of a Presidents lineer which looks similar to the Claridon. I am sure, they didnt sinke the ship in reality, although the scenes with the ship down with the bow looks very realistic for a movie from that time. But there is no real sinking scene. Maybe some of you american guys out there konws more about that film. Hope to hear from you... Kind regards Axel Wolters Moenchengladbach Germany mailto:axel@derpart.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "TIMOTHY BROOKS" Subject: Re: An Unrelated Battleship Question Regarding Michael's question about observers on deck when firing, it is perfectly plausible to be there. The bulk of the muzzle blast disperses from an imaginary line perpendicular to the extreme end of the muzzle outward, so a position behind the muzzle end is relatively safe from major blast effects. The shape of the blast wave is vaguely like a tulip, big end at the muzzle. That being said, I wouldn't want to be too close to the mount firing. There is some blast heading your way behind the muzzle. Regarding the officers without ear protection, well, I never noticed that officers listened much anyway, maybe that's the explanation. Tim Brooks (TMC USNR, Ret) (who still admires the gunpowder "tattooing" on his right cheek (no, the upper cheeks) from the muzzle blast of USS Marshall's (DD 676) Mount 53 from standing on the extended deck between the funnels exactly even with the end of the muzzle during a live-fire exercise a year or two ago). ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Best Place to Live Lest y'all forget: ...and on the 8th day, God created TEXAS. And it was good. And then he said "Let there be Houston". And there was Houston. I do miss it, and also miss my extra bedroom and closets to store my unbuilt 150 plus kits!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: David Gregory Subject: Articles from Warship Volume XII Can someone help me get copies of the following articles fro Warship Volume XII (1988)? -FIGHTING MOTOR BOATS OF THE RUSSIAN ARMY— Eastern Europe 1915-20 by René Greger -SOVIET MTB DESIGN AND DEVELOPMENT 1919-1939 by René Greger I cannot locate a copy of this anywhere. I will glady pay copying fees and postage. Dave Gregory The PT Dockyard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Re: Best place to live >> You can always tell a Texan...you just can't tell him much! << OK, that is about enough with the jokes, boys! We all live in different areas and think they are just fine. Some of us may not live in an area by choice, but have to because of work. Saying something derogatory about where someone else lives, or how thay act is going to bite you in the ass one day! I have been through Texas a few times and I think that the are around San Antonio is really great, so if you have not been there, dont say anything, or you might suffer from foot in mouth disease. I also happen to know a few darn good 'ol boys from that state and am proud to call them friends. So, enough with the stupid B.S. about different places or persons, mud slinging, etc., and lets have some intelligent questions and answers about warship history and modeling. You remember, the purpose of this site. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Lou Meszaros Subject: IJN Aoba How many rudders did the Aoba have, 1 or 2? I am wanting to build the version with bulges. I have the plan set from Pacific Front Hobbies and it shows 2, is this correct?? Thanks, Lou ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: aandmblevins@att.net Subject: Re: Oldest Ship-Constitution Calm down Franklyn. While I admire your loyalty to the Frigate Constitution, I believe that the honor of flying the rattlesnake flag refers to the oldest commissioned ship still in active service. Al Blevins ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Kurt Van Dahm Subject: train modelers-Walthers Walthers entire catalog is available on-line. Check www.walthers.com. Take care, Kurt ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Re: sub diorama I have always though about doing a sub diorama, but have put it off for another year as I have a big diorama to do this year, but one I was going to do for next year was using Tamiya's dino pack was a croc taking an Oviraptor off a bank... so as for your work..a fish tank would sound like a good idea..as for painting all the sides of the glass/perspex maybe hold off as if you put a water roof on it, it may really darken the underwater part of the model & you might need a flash light to show the undersides off , so a bit of experimentation there would probably be the best thing. As for water you could try a clear perspex top with acrylic gel medium that artists use..mine seems to get very clear with little or no "misting" as was recommended by a member @ APMA & then use artist paints to get a real water tone. The medium is very good to move around & play with ..my only experiment with this was with a 1/700 destroyer not crash hot but still better than a poke in the eye! (will take a photo of it one day & give it to Shane to post here), lol. if the sub is small scale you could use a plastic bag all scrunched up & pat the medium, gives a wavy water effect but if its large scale I guess you would have to use a spatula or get your fingers all gooey & stuff but im sure the wiz bang experts here would have something better or other ideas that you could experiment with Good luck Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "Bruce Buchner" Subject: Kudos to W.E.M. on Hood Set I opened my mailbox tonight to find my White Ensign Models photetch sheet for the Heller Hood. It looked stunning on the web site but it is even more stunning in person. I think it will go a long way towards making a silk purse out the Heller kit. Now can anyone describe the mods that need to be done to the shelter deck? Bruce Buchner ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 22) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: HMS Shikari & MTB 107 >> Diorama 'Last one out turn off the lights'. Could someone in the know please advise a suitable kit for the DD HMS Shikari and the MTB 107? << I am sure that the Royal Navalists on the list will provide more information, but the Shikari was a 1919 Admiralty "S" class Destroyer, a class which by WW2 had been refitted as minelayers. The were built with either 1- 3" gun & 2- 4" guns or 3- 4" guns as well as 2 double 21" TT. As for models, I do not think this has been done in 1/700 or 1/350 yet - but there might be something close. James Corley ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 23) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: JB'S RIGGING I TOO HAVE A PET SPIDER. I HAVEN'T YET BEEN SUCESSFUL AT TRAINING THE DAMNED THING TO PUT THE RIGGING WHERE I WANT. ANY IDEAS? DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 24) From: Darren Subject: Re: An Unrelated Battleship Question >> The question is, I suppose, "What're they thinking?" I might be missing something, but if nobody hung around for the main battery in 1944 or so, why would they be doing so in 1991, and why no ear coverings? From my experience in other high-noise environments, a yellow pair of 'push-in plugs' isn't going to do much for you, and I daresay that a 16" rifle is louder than a bunch of racing engines. << Michael, I was always under the impression that nobody was on deck when firing the 16" inchers as well, I must have read it somewhere. In the USS New Jersey book I picked up at the museum, 'from birth to berth' by the courier post, there is a photo on the second page, the photographer is standing on the bow, A and C turrets are facing starboard, B is facing port, and all guns seem to be firing (just powder charges?). Also, there is a row of observers standing atop the bridge. and atop the range finder. It is post 80's, as it has the current mast, etc. So my only conclusion is that I guess it wasn't that bad after all! Darren Scannell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 25) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Re: sub diorama Another thing I just thought of ...maybe an idea ...on the glass/perspex that will be closest to the screws maybe smudge something on the perspex to give a baffles effect..the only other thing that could be done but might be a bit corny is something like very thing tinsel & twist it a bit to make it look like air bubbles coming from the prop wash ..they are just ideas, maybe someone could think of something better Good luck ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 26) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: last final word on BB's Yes BB's maybe be able to cope with Exocets, Harpoons etc..but what about the fighter sized mach 3 flying Kitchen &/or Kangaroo missiles launced from Tu-22's etc maybe what you could do if you know of wargamers that only deal with warships..do what they have been doing in history for years..... war games ... that way you can put the anti-BB people Vs the BB supporters & see who wins the final battle of how good they are..just a thought ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 27) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Oregon Kit on Ebay Seen on the 'Bay http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1763871210 Not mine, but several have asked about availability Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 28) From: Mistress Lorna Subject: SS Canberra Having gone through my (admittedly scant) references on the Canberra, I wonder if there are some liner fans who may know the answer this question. P. & O. seem to have had a policy of running a black boot line at the waterline of their ships, however the photos I've seen of Canberra do not appear to have this at all. Can anyone confirm or deny this? I would like to build this model for my Mum who sailed on her in 1964 as a member of the Australian Womens Cricket team (one of her bats actually stayed on the Canberra in the Cricketers Lounge). Cheers Lorna BTW, I think knowing where people are is interesting - it shows what a truly global list we are. The good natured banter that has sprung out of it is, I feel, nothing more or less than the way friends joke with each other when they are sitting around talking. Which is, of course, what we are all doing even if we aren't in the same country, much less the same room ;-) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 29) From: donald p morgan Subject: Re: Battleships With all the recent conversation regarding battleships, and their value, or lack thereof, I thought the following story might be of interest. It was told to me by a gent whose first name is Zane, and whose last name, I don't know how to spell. Back during the late unlamented ruckus in South Vietnam, Zane was the executive officer in an infantry battalion, which was moving north in a truck convoy, along a road which paralleled the coastline, about eight miles inland. They started taking a lot of small arms fire from a ridge which ran alongside the road, on the landward side. The convoy stopped, and all the soldiers dismounted in a hurry, taking cover in a ditch on the seaward side of the road. Zane, was riding in an armored personnel carrier at the head of the convoy, and immediately got on the radio, yelling for air support. After several frantic calls, he heard a voice in his earphones, asking for his map coordinates. He replied with the necessary numbers, and asked how soon the aircraft could be overhead. The voice then informed him that he was talking to the battleship New Jersey, which at that time was just 20 miles off the coast, but opposite their position. The voice also instructed Zane to have all personnel remain under cover. Zane cracked the rear door, and passed the word for all to lie low. His next transmission to the battleship, was asking when the incoming, would arrive. The voice replied "We're just waiting on the roll of the ship". Shortly thereafter, Zane heard the first round arrive. He raised the hatch over his head and saw it explode squarely in the center of the ridge slope. above them. His immediate word to the ship was, "You're on target!! Fire for effect!!" The ship began slow measured fire, with the shells arriving at about 10 second intervals. Zane's stated that the Navy appeared to be using what he termed, "daisy cutters" as they seemed to explode immediately before ground impact. Including the ranging shot, the ship fired a total of 82 rounds, and when the shooting ended, what had been a thickly wooded hillside, was nothing but bare dirt. There was no way to get a body count, and Zane couldn't tell whether the Vietnamese were obliterated, or had escaped. All he could do was tell me that every man in that battalion, from that day forward, blessed that battleship everytime they said grace over their food. I suspect that there are more than a few troops who went ashore in Normandy, on June 6th, 1944, who could tell similar stories, as the average "grunt" has absolutely no idea regarding either the accuracy, or the destructive potential of heavy naval guns. Battleships may be obsolete, but are those heavy weapons also to be discarded?? Maybe we need a new type of vessel?? Don Morgan San Antonio, Texas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 30) From: "" Subject: Modeling USS Ingersoll DD-990 Ave, I have some questions regarding USS Ingersoll DD-990, that I am positive the SMML list can help with: 1)When were the ABLs installed? 2)When did she get the SH-60B upgrade (and consequently the larger hangar)(and did the RAST system/landing tracks become installed at this time)? 3)Were the above mentioned shipalts performed at the same time? There is method to my madness: I want to build Ingersoll with both the ASROC and the ABLs, I can only find one picture of this configuration and it doesn't show the hangar configuration. As the Dragon kit has the smaller hangar, I am trying to see if the ASROC/ABL/small-hangar configuration jibes (additionally the model has no landing tracks). Many thanks, Scott Weeks PS I apologize if my terms are inappropriate/wrong. I served onboard submarines, and consequently didn't have much use for destroyers during my Navy days. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Decker, Christopher " Subject: Free Shipping at TridentHobbies.com All: I wanted to let everyone in SMML'land know that TridentHobbies.com is offering FREE SHIPPING to US and Canada during the month of September. For our friends outside the US and Canada, we have reduced our shipping fees. If you didn't receive our email notification, please sign up on our mailing list so you don't miss specials like this one! We also have a wait list sign up for the Trumpeter 1/350 Hornets, due in December 15th. Our price is $99.99, and you can be the mailing list members will get a special on top of that. Happy Modeling Chris Decker TridentHobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Brent Theobald Subject: Online Ship Contest - Again! Howdy! Roll Models is sponsoring an Online Contest again. The last one was cancelled due to lack of interest, so let's try it again! The prize is a 1/700 HMS Prince of Wales from Tamiya as well as a photo-etched set from Gold Medal Models to go with it. http://www.rollmodels.net/ncontest/pow/pow.php Please send entries to me at: brent@rollmodels.com Have fun! Brent ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Michael London" Subject: Book for Sale For sale: Ships of the World, An Historical Enclyopedia, by Lincoln Paine. Houghton Mifflin 1997. $US 25.00 plus postage. E- mail off list if interested and will get postage quote. Point of origin Mississauga, Ontario. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume