Subject: SMML VOL 1906 Date: Thu, 05 Sep 2002 11:25:34 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Warped Resin 2: Claridon and Canberra 3: Re: S.S. CANBERRA 4: Re: The best place to live 5: Re: plastic sea surface 6: Re: Almirante Latorre 7: Sub question 8: Ile de France 9: Re: SS Canberra 10: Re: Oldest commissioned ship in the U.S.Navy 11: Don't Tread On Me 12: Re: Almirante Latorre 13: Re: Best place to live 14: History and media 15: Will Gosset and the Trumpeter Sovremenny 16: Propellers For Shipmodels 17: Ile de France 18: Re: Oldest commissioned Ship 19: Re: The Last Voyage 20: First Navy Jack/SecNavInst/NavRegs 21: RN S-Class (Group 3 WW11) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Mike Leonard" Subject: Re: Warped Resin Pirie Sublett wrote - >> When I eventually complete the case of models into which Lutzow fits, I will drill and tap a hole in both bow and stern and screw the model to the base which will no doubt cure the problem. << Last year I acquired a waterline 1/700 USS Brooklyn, ca 1898, made by Martola Models in Poland. During construction I noticed its propensity to turn itself into a banana. I finally scooped out as much of the semi-cured resin as I could, super-glued it to a 1/4 inch thick piece of Plexiglas, and secured it with three screws for good measure. Would you believe it continued to warp after that? >> I have models by Delphis, RM, CW, NNT, Modelkrak, and Kombrig amoung others, and I have never seen anything like this. Is this a peculiarity of the resin used in this kit, is it my own sometimes fatal touch (a solution not to be rejected out of hand), or is it something others have experienced? If anyone has I would like to know. << Having bought resin kits from a number of manufacturers, I haven't had the same experience as I did with the aforementioned Martola kit. Mind you, it's entirely possible it was just bad sample. "Caveat emptor..." MWL Alexandria, VA USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Claridon and Canberra Hello all, First for Mistress Lorna, the Canberra did not have the black waterline boot. Check out this link: http://www.sscanberra.com/home.htm There are a lot of color pictures showing the Canberra on the builders slip and in subsequent drydocking with no black boot. Regarding he Claridon, the ship used was the former Ile De France. After she was sold to Japan for scrap in the late 50's, she was towed to Japan and that's where they filmed the movie. They really did wreck many parts of the ship such as the scene where the funnel collapses onto the wheelhouse. I have the movie on tape, and saw a documentary a few years back where Robert Stack recalled some scenes. When Dorothy Malone was pinned under the wreckage, the Japanese crews were pumping water into the space. At one point the water was becoming dangerously high, and the director ordered the pumps stopped. But the Japanese workers didn't understand what he meant, so the water kept rising. Obviously there was a happy ending. BTW, the French weren't too pleased with "their" liner being destroyed prior to scrapping. Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: S.S. CANBERRA A beautiful ship. My wife and I celebrated an anniversary with a cruise in her some years ago. Best references are "The Great White Whale" which is a reprint of the souvenir number of Shipbuilder and Marine Engine Builder (and is complete with a full set of GA drawings) published at the time the ship was built, "Canberra, in the Wake of a Legend" by Philip Dawson, "Canberra" by Neil McCart and "Twentieth Century Passenger ships of the P&O" also by Neil McCart. To the best of my knowledge, P&O ships never had a black boot topping. After the adoption of the white hull in the 1930s the boot topping was red. In 1965, when the P&O Group consolidated the ships of the Orient Line fleet into the P&O fleet to form P&O Orient Line, the Orient ships' corn coloured hulls were painted white but their green boot topping was retained and the P&O ships had to change their red boot topping for green. Sometime in the 1980s, I suspect after the post Falklands war refit, "Canberra" regained her red boot topping. Other points to note are that the P&O logos on the superstructure sides and the commemorative plaque below the bridge were post Falklands. Some time in the late sixties the retractible cover over the sports deck ahead of the bridge was removed and a fixed cover fitted in its place. As built, the funnels did not have cowls; these were fitted to improve boiler draught in the early sixties. Regards to all, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "melee" Subject: Re: The best place to live If you love chaos and disorder...and want to live in a place where almost none of the natives obey laws because most of the police do not enforce laws...please..come to Taiwan this would be your paradise Lee Shackelford born in San Francisco and now teaching English in......Linkou, Taiwan ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: plastic sea surface >> rippled" plastic panels used to be available, though the only thing I found at Home Depot and Lowes was "crackle" plastic which has a sharper diamond like pattern. It is used as diffuser stock in drop ceiling lamps. Try a plastic supplier who carries plastic "privacy" paneling. << Better than any of those, but more expensive (I used to be able to scrounge the scrap bin at a glass company but they no longer have it) is the acrylic sheets intended for a stained glass window effect. The colors are blended instead of one solid color and the surface is rippled like water and not in any regular pattern like most privacy and shower door acrylic. Or you can build up a wavy surface on regular acrylic sheet with clear acrylic gel and tint it for color. I'm working on a new process which will make it foolproof and not expensive, more later. Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Almirante Latorre >> Can anyone steer me to a set of plans for the Almirante Latorre? I need to see the bulges. << See R.A. Burt, British Battleships of World One, Arms & Armour Press 1986. ISBN 0-87021-863-8 (try inter-library loan). There is a profile and plan, but no cross sections, of CANADA, later ALMIRANTE L:ATORRE. It is just possible to see the bulge in plan view. Interesting ship. She was the last surviving British dreadnought from the battle of Jutland. To Japan for scrapping in August 1959. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Sub question I believe one of the old U.S. Navy "G" boats had the distinction of being submarine number SS-19 1/2. Does anyone know the story of that. And at anytime during her career did she have 19 1/2 on the side of her conning tower. Can you imagine the ribbing the crew got from the other subs!? I ask because it would make an unusual model - probably have a lot of people do a double take on it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: Ile de France There must have been a special mystique about her. As a Deck Cadet, I visited CGT ship's quite often, especially the Liberte. I vividly recall (after lo these many years) spirited conversations with the Liberte's officers about their favorite or best ship. You got it: the Ile de France by a knockout. I remember hearing a collective wistful sigh when the CGT officers described her and her "other world ambiance". Sorry I never got the chance to see her. The Normandie was a close runner up, maybe even neck and neck. The Ile de France did come to the Andrea Doria's rescue. I recall that at the time it was sort of questionable if she were needed due to her distance away from the scene, or if she could continue to steam at high speed to arrive ASAP, since other, closer ships had responded. The Captain, concerned with schedule, changed course and did it anyway and the CGT owners backed him up. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: SS Canberra >> Having gone through my (admittedly scant) references on the Canberra, I wonder if there are some liner fans who may know the answer this question. P. & O. seem to have had a policy of running a black boot line at the waterline of their ships, however the photos I've seen of Canberra do not appear to have this at all. Can anyone confirm or deny this? << Lorna, I have checked all my sources, incl Stewart "Flags, Funnels and Hull Colours", and can find no ref to black boot topping on P&O ships. They all indicate red. Good luck with the model and I hope your Mum likes it. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: CPOWEWAX@att.net Subject: Re: Oldest commissioned ship in the U.S.Navy An extract from the official Constitution website as follows: 23 July 1954 Public Law signed by President Eisenhower direct the Secretary of the Navy to repair, equip, and restore the United States Ship Constitution as far as practicable to her original appearance, but not for ACTIVE SERVICE. To be maintianed as United States Ship Constitution at Boston, Ma. website: (www.ussconstitution.navy.mil) history page Wayne Weatherwax USN, ret. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: ELLshipmodeler@aol.com Subject: Don't Tread On Me From my USNA class e-mail list Gene Larson Member, NRG FYI: ROUTINE R 301329Z AUG 02 FM CNO WASHINGTON DC//N4// TO NAVADMIN BT UNCLAS NAVADMIN 305/02 MSGID/GENADMIN/CNO WASHINGTON DC/-/AUG// SUBJ/DISPLAY OF THE FIRST NAVY JACK ON BOARD ALL U.S. NAVY SHIPS// REF/A/DOC/SECNAVINST/31MAY2002// REF/B/DOC/U.S. REGULATIONS 1999/-// NARR/REF A IS SECNAV APPROVAL OF THE DISPLAY OF THE FIRST NAVY JACK. REF B IS THE U.S. NAVY REGULATIONS MANUAL.// POC/JIM LIBERKO/LCDR/OPNAV N412J/-/EMAIL:LIBERKO.JIM@HQ.NAVY.MIL PHONE 703-604-9926// RMKS/1. PURSUANT TO REF A, THE FIRST NAVY JACK WILL BE FLOWN ON BOARD ALL U.S. NAVY SHIPS IN LIEU OF THE UNION JACK DURING THE GLOBAL WAR ON TERRORISM. TO HONOR THOSE WHO DIED DURING THE ATTACK OF 11 SEP 01, ALL AFLOAT COMMANDS WILL COMMENCE FLYING THE FIRST NAVY JACK AT MORNING COLORS ON 11 SEP 02. THIS DISPLAY OF THE FIRST NAVY JACK IS AN AUTHORIZED EXCEPTION TO SECTION 1258 OF REF B. 2. THE FIRST NAVY JACK IS A FLAG CONSISTING OF A RATTLESNAKE, SUPERIMPOSED ACROSS 13 HORIZONTAL ALTERNATING RED AND WHITE STRIPES WITH THE MOTTO "DON'T TREAD ON ME". THE JACK WAS FIRST EMPLOYED BY COMMODORE ESEK HOPKINS IN THE FALL OF 1775 AS HE READIED THE CONTINENTAL NAVY IN THE DELAWARE RIVER. HIS SIGNAL FOR THE WHOLE FLEET TO ENGAGE THE ENEMY WAS THE STRIPED JACK AND ENSIGN FLOWN AT THEIR PROPER PLACES. THE TEMPORARY SUBSTITUTION OF THIS JACK REPRESENTS A HISTORIC REMINDER OF THE NATION'S AND NAVY'S ORIGIN, AND WILL TO PRESERVE AND TRIUMPH. 3. NON-DEPLOYED SHIPS AND CRAFT AUTHORIZED TO FLY THE FIRST NAVY JACK WILL RECEIVE AN INITIAL FIRST NAVY JACK VIA THEIR LOCAL FLEET AND INDUSTRIAL SUPPLY CENTER'S LOGISTIC SUPPORT CENTER REPRESENTATIVE. DEPLOYED SHIPS WILL RECEIVE THEIR FLAG VIA FPO. DISTRIBUTION COMMENCED 27 AUG 02. THREE ADDITIONAL FLAGS, ONE HOLIDAY AND TWO REGULAR, WILL BE FORWARDED TO EACH AFLOAT COMMAND THROUGH COMMERCIAL VENDOR AT A LATER DATE. ADDITIONAL QUANTITIES WILL BE AVAILABLE THROUGH THE STOCK SYSTEM AFTER DEC 02. 4. AN ACTIVE PUBLIC AFFAIRS POSTURE IS ENCOURAGED TO HIGHLIGHT THIS INITIATIVE. LOCAL COMMANDS AND PUBLIC AFFAIRS OFFICERS SHOULD FACILITATE COVERAGE TO INTERNAL AND EXTERNAL MEDIA ON THE FLYING OF THE FIRST NAVY JACK ON BOARD U.S. NAVY VESSELS 11 SEP 02. 5. VADM CHARLES W. MOORE, JR. SENDS.// BT For the flag-wavers among us, you can purchase this jack in nylon from (look under "historical flags" for "first Navy jack." About $36 delivered. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: roberto paredes Subject: Re: Almirante Latorre Hi Lou, I have a plan but with no bulges (pre-1931). Anyway, I have a big set of pictures that they could be useful for you. Additionally, please, visit my site, there you will find some Latorre's pictures: http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3389/english/battlesh.htm Kind regards, Roberto Paredes Sitio No Oficial del Ejército y Armada de Chile http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Cavern/3389/homeffaa.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Fkbrown90@aol.com Subject: Re: Best place to live I shall now put an end to the pitifully loyal but abysmally futile claims of the best place to live by declaring (with all truth and due modesty) that all roads lead to Holbrook (Massachusetts, USA). Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Burl Burlingame Subject: History and media >> Whilst discussing the Media's handling of the recent discovery of a sunken Japanese W W 2 two-man sub near Pearl Harbor you asked where the reporters learned their history. The answer is both short and obvious. They didn't !!!!!!!!! ( and that goes for the editors as well, for there is the real root of the problem). << Hmmmmm. My response to the above observation is that THIS reporter, who was on scene and broke the story about the midget submarine's discovery, has written extensively about the subject, including the sole book on the Imperial Navy's submarine assault on Hawaii and the West Coast, and my work has been cited repeatedly by explorers involved in the search. That said, the media's role is not that of a history teacher. Nor is Hollywood's. To blanket the "media" with such absurd accusations is pretty arrogant. That's like saying all history teachers are exactly alike and teach exactly the same way. Burl Burlingame Editor and writer Honolulu Star-Bulletin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Will Gosset and the Trumpeter Sovremenny >> Recently picked up the 1:200 Sovremenny by Trumpeter and have a couple of questions. It is readily apparent on comparing the hull to photographs that something is not correct at the raised fo'c'sle area in that the scuttles on the side of the hull move too close to the deck line as they progress towards the stern. << Hi Will: I read your post on the Trumpeter Sovremmeny kit discrepancies and have to agree with you regarding the portholes at the hull's outboard area at the foc'sle. In my review of the kit in Model Ship Journal Summer 2002, I noted that the portholes are too close to the sheerline on the kit and would need to be modified. Also the anchor bolsters do not match the photos shown in Zaloga's book or the images provided by Kurt Greiner for the review piece. I just received a set of Sovremenney plans designed by G. Sheremetjeva and published by GMS of Saint Petersburg, Russia. The drawings are in 1:100 scale and clearly show what appears to be a more proper placement of the forward hull portholes, more in line with photos I've seen of these handsome ships. The plans also show the camber you asked about. The numerous sectional drawings show conventionally cambered decks that rise about 1/16" at the centerline of the foc'sle deck in 1:100 scale. The helicopter deck appears to use a faceted camber where the centerline is dead flat and it then slopes at a sharp angled knuckle to meet the sheer lines, similar to the design of the main deck on the USCG 32' Ports & Waterways boats. In 1:100 scale this measures to 3-7/8" wide for the helo deck's flat centerline area at the hangar. Model making companies should pay more attention to camber. Leaving it off lends a toy-like appearance to any ship model and more often than not camber is one feature missing in far too many kits. I have never walked the decks of a Sovremenney, so I can't state for sure how accurate the GMS plans are, but for Eastern European navies, I'll take what I can get--and these are a really nicely drawn, very complete production. I believe the GMS drawings will be available in the United States, imported by Loyalhanna Dockyard. You might want to check with Don Spielberger, he imports quite a bit of European product. GMS also publishes Modelist Korabel, a Russian magazine for ship modelers, can't read a word of it, but I like the plans they include. Neat little periodical. BTW, on your trip to the Musee De La Marine did you happen to notice if they are still publishing ship plans? Good luck with your model, Victor Baca Editor & Publisher MODEL SHIP JOURNAL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Propellers For Shipmodels Ed Parent asked about obtaining good ship propellers. I just received a set from Loyalhanna Dockyard manufactured by The Prop Shop. These are cast brass propellers showing a high level of workmanship and the set I received showed very good balance, well shaped blades and a nicely polished overall finish. They make props for many specialized model styles including submarines, kort nozzle props (and the nozzles themselves) as well as some especially delicately shaped, beautiful little propellers suitable for fast fighting boats like PTs and patrol craft. Just type in Loyahanna Dockyard on any search engine and it will pop up for you. Victor Baca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "A Phillips" Subject: Ile de France Hi guys, I really appreciate some the historical stuff you guys know, my dad who was in the Merchant Navy during WW2, sailed on the Ile de France when she was commandeered as a troopship, I don't really know a lot about his time under the Red Duster but I do have a list somewhere of his ships, I know he sailed on a couple of Liberty ships and that he was in Durban, South Africa on VE day, but most of all I remember being so impressed as a young lad that he had sailed on the Ile de France. Thanks for the memories guys. Ant Phillips "Every morning when I wake up I thank the Lord I'm Welsh" ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: aandmblevins@att.net Subject: Re: Oldest commissioned Ship Hello Franklyn, Perhaps I was a bit too terse to you in my reply about the oldest ship in commission on active service. If so I apologize. I guess that my having been born and reared in Boston and having been made to memorize the poem about the Constitution (in addition to the "Midnight Ride of Paul Revere") in my school days, and having once been a member for several years of the USS Constitution Model Shipwright's Guild, I felt I had a healthy perspective on the pride of the Navy. That said, I think that the navy had a less parochial view of things when it allowed the oldest ship in commission "on active service" the honor of displaying the rattlesnake flag. And no, I don't have a defination of that term and, in any case, the matter is moot now that every ship in the navy is displaying that flag. Al Blevins ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Daniel" Subject: Re: The Last Voyage >> The ship was actually the Ile de France (which was converted from three-funnel to two-funnel postwar), right after she had been sold for scrapping by the French Line to Japanese shipbreakers. The ship actually was partially flooded to make it appear to sink, and there was actual damage inflicted (i.e. the funnel actually did collapse, that kind of thing). << The funnel was actually cut and pulled over with cables. It's one of the cheesier moments in the script. The ship was not down or listing anywhere nearly enough to cause a structure like that to collapse like that, but I guess the producers thought "Hey, collapsing funnel worked in "A Night To Remember", so let's make it happen to our ship." Also gave them a pretext to deal an appropriate end to the negligent captain, who gets squashed under the thing. If you can find a model of Ile de France a good diorama idea would be Claridon about to sink, lifeboats all away, small figures representing our heroes racing like crazy for the stern, just ahead of the rising water, and the neatly cut-off funnel lying on top of the bridge. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: "" Subject: First Navy Jack/SecNavInst/NavRegs Greetings friends, Please refer to SECNAV INSTRUCTION 10520.6, found at http://neds.nebt.daps.mil/directives/10520%5F6.pdf (you will need adobe acrobat reader), for instruction on displaying the first navy jack on board USN ships during the Global War on Terrorism. I am sorry to report I cannot find any guidance about the jack under other circumstances, other than the following report about USS Kitty Hawk: http://www.chinfo.navy.mil/navpalib/news/navywire/nws98/nws1123.txt which includes: "In 1977, the Secretary of the Navy directed the ship with the longest total period of active service to display the First Navy Jack until decommissioned or transferred to the inactive reserve. At that time, the flag shall be passed to the next ship in line with appropriate honors." I sure hope this helps. Scott ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: "dengar" Subject: RN S-Class (Group 3 WW11) Researching this sub and I have plenty of photographs, but I am looking for a set of drawings showing hull cross sections. Can anyone help? Gary McGee ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume