Subject: SMML VOL 1911 Date: Sun, 08 Sep 2002 10:04:14 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Battleship accuracy 2: 16 IN/50 CAL FALL OF SHOT 3: Constitution's on duty Crew 4: Poseidon Models Viribus Unitis...!! 5: Re: Helicopters aboard USS Chicago 6: Prinz Eugen Turret Top Colours Plus Original Prinz Eugen Book on Ebay 7: Ocean Liner Normandie.... 8: CV-8 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Denis J" Subject: Battleship accuracy I've seen a few reports about accurate the BB's were. A couple from Vietnam, which would take me a bit of time to find but also one from Korea.Its from The Four Deuces by C S Crawford. It is longer than you would want here and certainly beyond my capacity to type so I will cut it down some, will prbably still be too long, but here goes---. "-----The Battleship will be on station close inshore for about 30 minutes. She will be in position to shoot at exactly 1130....The Navy has already computed what is needed to hit Hill 1052. They will put the first round on the hill right out where we can spot it. What I want you to do is put those all those big f... rounds those 1 ton shells right into that gook trench line." The first shell from the New Jersey took more than 2 mins time to splash; when it did it was right on schedule and right on Hill 1052, biting out a gaping hole of tremendous size. I was surprised at 2 things -that the battleship firing from such a distance and on choppy seas to boot, had actually hit Hill 1052 in an area where we could see the round go off ,and I was surprised at the size of the hole the 16inch shell left in the side of the mountain. I heard the shell coming in from a long way out. It had a chugging pulsing sound that built up to a cresendo to where it was really roaring just before it smashed into the mountain. Even as far away as we were in our trenches from where the shell impacted I could seel Hill 1052 shudder and then quickly I felt our mountain shudder as well. My eyes were glued to the BC scope. I could hear people muttering in the FO bunker........But Hill 1052 had my attention. I said to my radioman "Soupy tell navy to come left about 750yds and drop about 500 yds Tell them Im going to try to put one in the trench line and then work my way up the hill. The 2nd shell was close but not on target. Tell them up about 30yds and left about 25yds. I heard Soupy mutter in his headset. He listened for a moment and then said to me "Cautious, those Navy guys said enough of this "about" sh... They said for you to be more exact" I said to Soupy "What do they want me to do. Go out on the mountain with a yardstick and give them correction in feet. 'Soupy muttered some thing into his handset and then he listened. Cautious they said they would even take a correction in inches if you had the balls to go out and measure it. They said the will deliver the rounds exactly where you say. They said they ain't trying to hassle you just that they can deliver but you got to tell them where to deliver........ So I really computed the next shot.....using Kentucky windage I gave my next correction to the Navy in yards then feet and then jokingly in inches. The next shell impacted on top of the gooks trench line about 50 ft from the bottom of the mountain knocking timbers and sandbags to hell and gone. I worked my way up the mountain with the next 12 shots. I hit the trench line 10 times with 2 near misses. The USN New Jersey steamed out of range at 1155. Thats the abridged version folks. The Marines teach 'accurate shooting' and appreciate Sniping more than most. Im happy to back their judgement on the accuracy and effectivness of 16inch rifles. cheers denis james ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Norman Samish" Subject: 16 IN/50 CAL FALL OF SHOT >> US Navy figures for the CEP on the 16"/50 cal rifle are MUCH less than 1/4 mile. Please check out the following graph of actual patterns: http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/weaps/bb-61-dnsn8709176_jpg-s.gif << I looked at the figure cited below and computed the statistics at 36,000 yards or 20.5 miles. The avg. miss turned out to be 0.14 miles, and 2/3 of the shots fired came within 0.25 miles of the target. However, I imagine the test was carefully controlled, with negligible wind, etc. In the real world, hitting within a quarter mile of where it was aimed, half the time, might be a more realistic expectation. Norm Samish ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: Constitution's on duty Crew To Franklyn: My apologies, it was not my intention to imply that you said the whole crew lived in the Brick building, and Yes the off duty crew does live in that building. I was just trying to back up your information with a little furthur information that I was fortunate enough to have. It is also the Navy's explaination of why they don't open the berthing deck to the public. To the rest: Franklyn is correct the Off duty crew lives in Building # 5 at the Navy yard, the building does also contain their Mess area snd the administrative offices for the ship. Thank You. Rich Sweeney ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "James Baumann" Subject: Poseidon Models Viribus Unitis...!! Hello all; the recent enquiry into the status of Dynamic models prompted me to remember another pet request on my wish list of model ships that I NEED TO OWN!!!! Whatever happened to POSEIDON MODELS, most especially the Tooling/KITS?photoetch thereof?? If memory serves me right it was a 1/350 scale injection moulded with PE kit of the Austro-Hungarian Navy Battleship VIRIBUS UNITIS. I recall seeing some years ago a photo in Dan Jones Magazine PLASTIC SHIP MODELLER of the pre=production built up model being exhibited at the Nuremberg? toy fair SO IF ANYONE HAS AN UNBUILT KIT with which they feel they could blackmail me with or indeed a started kit (some hope) please try your luck and see how susceptible to TEMPTATION I might be........ KIND REGARDS JIM BAUMANN ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Mike Potter Subject: Re: Helicopters aboard USS Chicago A friend who was aboard this ship during the early 1970s reports: "The Chicago CG-11 was Vertrep'd by CH-46's but none landed as we did not have the rotor room. We did bring the larger single rotor helo aboard for personnel transfers, but I do not know if it was a UH-2 or SH-3. Let me look at my cruise books to see if they mention the helo type. We did not have a helo detachment as the ship did not have a hanger and the fantail landing area was in the Talos launch blast area." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Frank Allen Subject: Prinz Eugen Turret Top Colours Plus Original Prinz Eugen Book on Ebay The turrets were definitely light grey (silbergrau) from 21 May until she reached Brest. Of course, they DID have some colour- dark center panels...probably grey. This is confirmed by the "Schmalenbach" movie and from photos in the old book "Prinz Eugen Im Ersten Gefecht." I am curious about Steve's remarks concerning yellow possibly being used on Prinz Eugen. That's not in any documentation I've seen. What is the source of that? Speaking of Prinz Eugen, I noticed that the rare book "Prinz Eugen Im Ersten Gefecht" is currently up for bid on Ebay. This is the first published book dealing with the German side of the battle with Hood and Prince of Wales. It's by the Propaganda Kompanie's Fritz Otto Busch, eyewitness to the battle. He is generally full of hot air/bull crap (much Nazi/Third Reich rhetoric- this is a WW2 Nazi book after all), but this book is significant based on the large number of great photos of PG and Bismarck during Rheinübung. One for the true Bismarck/PG/Hood collector. It's at http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2137856169 FYI- I'm not affiliated with this sale, just wanted to let everyone know about it! Frank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "James Baumann" Subject: Ocean Liner Normandie.... Having visited a website called The Debrisfield which concerns itself almost exclusively with Liners and merchantmen I was surprised to learn that there is a 1/600 resin kit available for that perhaps most elegant liner of all the NORMANDIE produced as I could glean by a firm called Ocean liner models. Can any SMML member shed more light on this,perhaps an address, availability, apraisal of accuracy/quality? Am feeling almost as enthused about the Normandie as I am about the prospect of a 1/350 Viribus Unitis so perhaps someone out there can assist Thanking you all in advance and in anticipation Jim Baumann Hi Jim, Check out the following site: http://www.oceanlinermodels.com/ Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: CV-8 HELLO ALL, I MAY BE SLOW ON THIS, BUT I SEE WE HAVE A NEW HORNET ON ITS WAY. WHO'S GOING TO MAKE THE P/E, AND CONVERSION MATERIALS TO MAKE IT THE "BIG E"? DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume