Subject: SMML VOL 1930 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 01:15:47 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Colors of former Finnish coast defense ship Vyborg 2: Re: Langley 3: SS United States- Scrap Her Now 4: German turret top colors 5: USS Langley 6: Re: OT: Cheverolet d.u.k.w. 7: Aircraft carriers 8: Re: USS LANGLEY 9: Re: USS Langley in 1/700 10: aircraft carrier question ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: ZMzimmerman@cs.com Subject: Colors of former Finnish coast defense ship Vyborg Does anyone know the colors used on the former Finnish coast defense ship Vyborg that was ceded to the Soviets in 1947. I am guessing gray on the hull and vertical surfaces, wood on the wooden part of the main deck. And I am wondering about the linoleum used on other Soviet ships. The kit I am working on is the Kromberg 1/700 and the instructions are all in Cyrillic. My one semester of Russian is hopelessly inadequate. Thanks in advance, again. Michael Zimmerman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: ken.p.lemaster@exxonmobil.com Subject: Re: Langley FSM Mar 1995, page 74. The index for at least part of the issues, from 1994 are on the web at Fine Scale Modeler. url http://www.finescale.com/fsm/FSMindex/Menu.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Mike Bartel Subject: SS United States- Scrap Her Now So, it looks like they will finally put this grand old ship up for sale and disposal. I regretfully say it's about time. She's been here in Philadelphia for- what is it- eight years, or so? I drive by the ship frequently on Delaware Avenue, and everytime I pass her, she looks a little more decrepit, and the best thing to do would be to put her to sleep- now. From what I have heard, she is in no condition to be rebuilt, unless you have bottomless pockets and a veritable army of SKILLED workers. It might be more logical and cost-effective to build a new ship for cruising purposes, and she was obviously never as well-maintained in storage as the New Jersey (moored a little ways up the river, and still in fine shape) even for a possible future as a museum ship. I don't think anyone had this in mind during the years of storage, while by contrast, at least some of the Iowa class ships had been knowingly earmarked for preservation for some time. The SS United States has been allowed to fall into this state because she sat in Norfolk for years with the thought that perhaps she could one day be used to refight the last war, as a troopship. In the early '90s, when it became apparent that man's talent for making war had progressed to the point where troopships might not be required anymore (and if they were, any of the big new 'cruise' liners would do for that task), no one knew quite what to do with her, and once she was sold and some schemes were worked out, they turned out to be too expensive for the condition she was in. She even made one more voyage across the Atlantic to Turkey, but it was a round-trip voyage with nothing accomplished. Now, she's just taking up dock space, costing her owners money daily just for the storage, and despite her BIG majestic beauty right in front of you when you drive north on Delaware Avenue from the Stadium Area, it's apparent when you get within 500 feet of her that the bloom is very much off the rose. Sure, she's a technological triumph, or at least she was fifty years ago. But, no one cares to remember it all now, and her records and triumphs have long since been eclipsed by other craft. She isn't interesting to anyone anymore. Few people even know she had a (smaller) sistership! I didn't even know that until the mid 90's, when she came here! And, we can't save every ship ever built. If her previous owners couldn't do anything useful with her, what can a small band of enthusiasts do? I don't care how dedicated you are, we're not talking about restoring an old steam locomotive or a WW2-era Stuka fighter here. And, saving liners isn't quite as, shall we say, stimulating, as saving old warships. Though the example of the liner Queen Mary will surely be brought up as a parallel, remember that she was involved in a major war, and played an important part. I suppose it's like being a politician in a way. If you are a war hero, you stand a better chance of using that to appeal the public to help your cause. In a society like the USA, where everything is subconsciously geared towards a constant war frenzy in every aspect of our lives, this is a huge strike against preservation of a ship like the SS United States. The SS United States had a good ride, and she was a great ship. But, it's time to move on and lay her to rest. I think we owe that much to her now, and to delay it any longer would be the only foolish thing. Mike Bartel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Subject: German turret top colors For those who model German warships, WW II era, the following historical data may be useful. In late Feb, 1940 German destroyers embarked on a minelaying operation (Operation Wikinger) with tragic results. Poor cooperation with the Luftwaffe resulted in the destroyers being attacked by "friendly" aircraft. Two destroyers were sunk (one probably by British mines). The lessons were learned and several steps were taken to provide means of identification. One of these was to paint the turret tops yellow. This applied to Atlantic/North Sea operations only. Later, red turret tops were standard for use in the Baltic. Major fleet units used yellow during the invasion of Norway (Operation Weserubung) in 1940. By the time the Scharnhorst and Gniesanau sortied in June (Operation Juno) It was felt the British had identified the measure, and might even be copying it (British air-sea rescue launches picking up downed pilots in the Channel during the Battle of Britain had their decks painted yellow!) Dark grey turret tops were specified for Juno, but yellow was used again immediately after that. The yellow color was needed only when in range of Luftwaffe observation. Once beyond that range the turret tops would have been repainted in dark grey anyway. The next variation in color came for Operation Cerberus, the famous channel dash. The Kriegsmarine used light blue on the turrets of the three major warships for that one. Once again, this was a measure specified for a particular operation. In my collection I have one battlecruiser painted for Juno, one for Cerberus, another cruiser with yellow for Weserubung, and Emden as a training cruiser in the Baltic with red tops. Remember to pay attention to possible alterations in appearance over time. It won't do to paint a ship in 1940 colors if she has radars and anti-aircraft guns that were installed in 1942. Aryeh Wetherhorn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "L'Arsenal" Subject: USS Langley Hello, If I remember well, there was a complete article on how to scratchbuild a USS Langley in 1/700 scale, in the April 1995 of FineScale Modeler. The article was complete with drawings and patterns for the hull. Best regards from Normandie, Jacques Druel L'Arsenal ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Dirk Emmermacher" Subject: Re: OT: Cheverolet d.u.k.w. Hello Bruce, hello list. Thank your for all information you give to me. >> You can try a web search, using dukw. GMC built the vehicle, not Chevrolt. << I suppose that my friend does'nt no this. >> It was based on GMC's 2.5 ton 6x6 truck, the CCKW. And, it was "DUKW", no periods in the name. Failing that, Squadron/Signal publishes a "DUKW in Action", which goes for about $8.00. Other books are "The Quack Corps" and a DUKW operation manual reprint. Haror Tours in Boston uses DUKW's in their operations. Okay, they are painted red, use a GM 350 engine and TH350 automatic, but externally they are reasonable close. There is a DUKW (actually, it may be a Super DUKW) on display in both Oklahoma City at the 35th Infantry Division Museum and in Austin at the Texas Military Forces Museum. << I try to find it in the web. We're living in germany, so its a little bit difficult for us to visit the trucks... Best regards. Dirk IG Mikromodell http://www.mikromodell.de mailto:emmermacher@hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Rod Dauteuil" Subject: Aircraft carriers >> I have heard that the Midway and Forrestal have been considered for museums. Of these the Coral Sea has been scrapped.The others are in reserve. << There were plans to make a museum out of the USS Saratoga. They planned to tow her across the bay from Newport to Quonset Point to a permanent mooring. Their web page hasn't had any new news for quite some time, making me think they are not progressing as intended. >> RED ALERT! SS UNITED STATES TO BE SCRAPPED!<< This has been posted here before. Well, almost. Just change the name to USS Cabot. Remember what happened? Rod ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: SantMin@aol.com Subject: Re: USS LANGLEY >> 1. I seem to remember that Bob Santos wrote a pretty thorough article on how to scratchbuild a 1/700 USS Langley for FSM, does any one know which issue this was in?, I have searched a 3 and a half foot pile of the magazines to no avail, am I imagining the article? << Adrian, It was in the March 95 issue of FSM. A longer and different article was a two part article in the JUL/AUG 95 and SEP/OCT 95 issues if Ship in Scale. Cheers, Bob Santos ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SHIPMDLR@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Langley in 1/700 >> 1. I seem to remember that Bob Santos wrote a pretty thorough article on how to scratchbuild a 1/700 USS Langley for FSM, does any one know which issue this was in?, I have searched a 3 and a half foot pile of the magazines to no avail, am I imagining the article? << No you're not imagining. Bob did a very nice article complete with artwork for photo etch parts some time back. Can't remember which issue though. >> 2. Does any one know of an existing or projected kit of the Langley (Pre War or how she looked when sunk)? << I don't know about the exact time frame but Iron Shipright had their 1/350 Langley at the Nats in Va Beach. It's currently in production. You can contact IS direct and ask your questions. They would certainly be able to give you some answers. Rusty White # 20181 OKC In 2003! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: aircraft carrier question Forrestal CV-59 is on donation hold: http://www.navsea.navy.mil/ndp/shipHold_template.asp?txtDataID=692&txtTypeID=44 there had been a couple groups trying for her on the east coast, but one of them recently gave up, IIRC. Saratoga CV-60 is also on donation hold: http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/details/CV60.htm there had also been at least one group trying for this ship in Florida. don't know if they're still in operation. Ranger CV-61 inactive reserve: http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/details/CV61.htm this is the ship that Midway in San Diego should have gone for, but I have my theories as to why not (besides the reserve status of the ship) Independence CV-62 inactive reserve: http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/details/CV62.htm don't know if there's an effort to 'save' this ship. America CV-66 striken and to be scrapped http://www.nvr.navy.mil/nvrships/details/CV66.htm there had been an attempt, albeit feeble, to save this one, too. it is currently being used as a 'parts car' for other gray boat museums. Lexington AVT-16 is a museum in Texas http://www.usslexington.com/ Midway CV-41 is promised to a group in San Diego http://www.midway.org/news/news.htm and http://www.navsea.navy.mil/ndp/shipHold_template.asp?txtDataID=699&txtTypeID=44 however, they still need to do some serious fundraising ($5mil or so) prior to the Navy towing the ship. Coral Sea CV-43 is in the process of being scrapped. has been in this process for several years. http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/carriers/coralsea/ s ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume