Subject: SMML VOL 1931 Date: Fri, 20 Sep 2002 13:15:33 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Telford Show 2: Do you VHS or DVD? 3: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? 4: Mike Bartel's comments on NOT saving the USS United States 5: Ships in Scale Langley back issues 6: Re: Making spare parts 7: Re: SS United States- Scrap Her Now 8: Re: scrap her now 9: SS United States 10: Re: SS United States- Scrap Her Now 11: Re: USS Langley 12: Re: USS Langley in 1/700 13: CC Lee and Arii Beehive CVAN 65 Enterprises 14: Re: the United States ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Attn Jaime Campbell ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: WRPRESSINC@aol.com Subject: Telford Show Can somebody tell me the dates of the IPMS show at Telford later this year., and is there an internet site available for additional details. Hi WR Check out the IPMS (UK) site at: http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ipmsuk/ Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: SteveWiper@aol.com Subject: Do you VHS or DVD? I am in the process of getting into the motion picture business with historic film footage from the Archives. I have been finding a treasure trove of film footage of all types, including a lot of color. After seeing the "Sink the Bismarck" 2 hour documentary on the History Channel, with a mistake in almost every sentence, I know I could do a better job. That means showing the right ship in the image as it is being narrated! I think it is safe to say that the VHS tape days are numbered. Another problem is only the USA and Japan use the same type of VHS tape, while the rest of the world is using a PAL format VHS tape. DVDs are universal world wide. My question is, "How many of you on the SMML, world wide that is, have DVD players? Please post your answer to the SMML message board only!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Thanks, Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? I have 2 DVD players. One on the TV and the other on the confuser. (I also have a VHS, but it is old and the image quality it provides is poor). Of the two formats, I prefer DVD. Like Steve said, VHS's days are numbered. Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Devin" Subject: Mike Bartel's comments on NOT saving the USS United States When I first read the post wanting to save the USS United States, I had pretty much the same feeling that Mike expressed (and since he stuck his neck out first, I'll concur with him). There are simply too few people that are willing to donate the time and money that are required to make these proposed ship museums work (Forrestal, United States, and all of the others). The places where there ARE concentrations of such people and money already have their projects - the Yorktown, Hornet, Texas, North Carolina etc., and last I checked they were all needing more help and money than they could get. It's sad to say, but maybe sometimes it's just better to let go. Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Devin" Subject: Ships in Scale Langley back issues Does anyone know of sources for back issues of Ships in Scale magazine? I'm interested in the two issues Bob Santos mentioned, that have the articles on his USS Langley scratchbuild (I already have the FSM issue somewhere). Their website does not seem to have any information on this, and their archive CD's do not have the two articles in question. Issues are: USS Langley (CV-1) in 1/700 Scale; Part 1 Santos, Bob Vol. VI, No. 4, July August 1995, Page 9-11 USS Langley (CV-1), Part 2 Santos, Bob Vol. VI, No. 5, Sept-Oct 1995, Page 20-23 Thanks, Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Making spare parts >> I have bought some RTV and casting resin and I make my own spare parts. I use the parts I have made in scratchbuilding or to add more deck clutter to commercial models. << RTV (Room Temperature Vulcanising) is certainly the way to go. It is not cheap but a single container will go a long way. Be aware, however, it does have a limited shelf life. It comes with a standard catalyst which requires at least an overnight curing time. There is a faster catalyst which usually gives a cure in two to three hours. Mixing should be done in a plastic container and the RTV and catalyst mixed using a plastic stirring rod such as a piece of sprue. Wood should not be used for a master or for mixing unless it is very well sealed. Make a mould container out of plastic card large enough to hold the master. If the master has a flat base this can be set on the bottom of the mould box. If not supports have to be made to hold the master centrally within the box. Create a pouring port by securing a cone-shaped piece of plastic to the master at a suitable point. Pour in the mixed RTV/catalyst and set aside to cure. Once fully cured the master is removed. It may be necessary to slit open the mould with a very sharp blade to achieve this however it can usually be done by carefully cutting open one side as the cured material is quite flexible. The recommended resin is Alumilite, a two part mix that is easilly poured. In addition to the pouring port it may be necessary to create air escape holes at locations where there is a projection on the master. These can be created by piercing the mould with a needle at these locations. Tape over any slit used to remove master. Alumilite is mixed by combining two equal parts. Avoid contaminating by using separate measuring cups. Pour into mould and put aside to set. It sets up in a matter of minutes so there is not much time between mixing and pouring. Some people set up a vacuum chamber for the casting process which does help to eliminate air bubbles. A sealed box connected to a vacuum cleaner will work. Once set the casting can be removed. The casting port and any supports are then cut away and the casting is ready for use. Good luck! Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Gary Subject: Re: SS United States- Scrap Her Now I hate to say it but I concur with Mike, every time I drive past her she looks even worse. There is not enough ship restoration dollars in the world to rebuild her and I believe most of her original fittings are long gone (that trip to Turkey). Also despite her technological achievements she was really obsolete as soon as she was launched (with intercontinental airlines) kinda of like building the best steam locomotive after diesel engines could already do the same job better, and you can't really tie enough historical significance to her to attract large enough crowds. Sorry, let her go. Gary Schurr ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Hub & Dianne Plott" Subject: Re: scrap her now How wrong and unenlightened you are.... Hub ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: SS United States Hey Mike, Great, would you be so kind as to list the ships that have eclipsed her records. I mean as you must have information that the world at large doesn't. Silly us, we all believe she still holds the "Blue Ribband" for fastest crossing of the Atlantic by an Ocean Liner. I know your not referring to that pitiful attempt by a hovercraft a few years back, that was thrown out, she wasn't an "Ocean liner". So I mean you couldn't possibly mean that could YOU?? But I mean you can, can't you? List the Liners that have made faster Atlantic Crossings? You know the liners that can average faster than 35.59 knots, or her top recorded speed of 44 knots, Funny thing too, she NEVER did light off all of her boilers. So Mike, where's the list? Richard Sweeney ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: SS United States- Scrap Her Now >> So, it looks like they will finally put this grand old ship up for sale and disposal. I regretfully say it's about time. She's been here in Philadelphia for- what is it- eight years, or so? I drive by the ship frequently on Delaware Avenue, and everytime I pass her, she looks a little more decrepit, and the best thing to do would be to put her to sleep- now. From what I have heard, she is in no condition to be rebuilt, unless you have bottomless pockets and a veritable army of SKILLED workers. It might be more logical and cost-effective to build a new ship for cruising purposes, and she was obviously never as well-maintained in storage as the New Jersey (moored a little ways up the river, and still in fine shape) even for a possible future as a museum ship. I don't think anyone had this in mind during the years of storage, while by contrast, at least some of the Iowa class ships had been knowingly earmarked for preservation for some time. The SS United States has been allowed to fall into this state because she sat in Norfolk for years with the thought that perhaps she could one day be used to refight the last war, as a troopship. In the early '90s, when it became apparent that man's talent for making war had progressed to the point where troopships might not be required anymore (and if they were, any of the big new 'cruise' liners would do for that task), no one knew quite what to do with her, and once she was sold and some schemes were worked out, they turned out to be too expensive for the condition she was in. She even made one more voyage across the Atlantic to Turkey, but it was a round-trip voyage with nothing accomplished << Wrong Answer, though it may have been a round trip she did get all of her asbestos removed and hull scrapped and cleaned and repainted of her hull below the water line. >> Now, she's just taking up dock space, costing her owners money daily just for the storage, and despite her BIG majestic beauty right in front of you when you drive north on Delaware Avenue from the Stadium Area, it's apparent when you get within 500 feet of her that the bloom is very much off the rose. << The same thing could be said for the liberty bell, and while we are at it why don't we just throw away the Statue of Liberty, hell she's old taking up space, and why not then destroy the other thousands of object that represent the United States, should we throw them away also because of there age No >> Sure, she's a technological triumph, or at least she was fifty years ago. But, no one cares to remember it all now, and her records and triumphs have long since been eclipsed by other craft. She isn't interesting to anyone anymore. Few people even know she had a (smaller) sistership! I didn't even know that until the mid 90's, when she came here! And, we can't save every ship ever built. If her previous owners couldn't do anything useful with her, what can a small band of enthusiasts do? I don't care how dedicated you are, we're not talking about restoring an old steam locomotive or a WW2-era Stuka fighter here. << She Still is a Technical Marvel, as she still holds the trans-Atlantic Speed Record to this day, no other vessel of her caliber has broken it, Speed Boats don't count, And she is of big interest to all Americans but has been put on the back burner for so long that she has almost been forgotten but that is not going to happen, True we cant save every ship ever built But for crying out loud your talking about cutting up the UNITED STATES, she could easily be turned into a fast disaster relief ship with hospitals and food transportation and communications center all rolled up into one ship, she can make her own water ,electricity, sewage treatment and be there with a lot more supplies than anything else afloat. Her previous owners and current owners where trying to save her from being scrapped until someone came along that would do the ship justice, there have been a number of attempts to buy her and turn her into a floating casino or such but the owners wanted her restored or used, not embarrassed and humiliated, And, saving liners isn't quite as, shall we say, stimulating, as saving old warships. Though the example of the liner Queen Mary will surely be brought up as a parallel, remember that she was involved in a major war, and played an important part. I suppose it's like being a politician in a way. If you are a war hero, you stand a better chance of using that to appeal the public to help your cause. In a society like the USA, where everything is subconsciously geared towards a constant war frenzy in every aspect of our lives, this is a huge strike against preservation of a ship like the SS United States. Anyone that promotes the cutting up of the UNITED STATES is just plain Un-American, why don't we just burn the Declaration of independence, hell it is a peaceful document, Warships are a unique category themselves while the Trans-Atlantic Liners are in a Category all them selves, I don't suppose you know or care that she has the same boilers steam turbines propellers, and internal running gear as the Iowa Class Battleships, HMMMM there covers your war, she has served and I hope and pray that she continues to do so, We lost 2 towers of Americanism already to terrorism please let us not loose 1 more to the terror of an American cutting torch or anyone's cutting torch. Internally she is in perfect condition and preserved and is in running shape it is her external appearance that is decayed and worn, 50 million would restore her to museum status and 220 million would get her to operational status, Remember she could do so much as a relief, disaster, communications ship at for the cost of a couple of tomahawk missiles we could save and promote this great ship and country, >> The SS United States had a good ride, and she was a great ship. But, it's time to move on and lay her to rest. I think we owe that much to her now, and to delay it any longer would be the only foolish thing. << The only foolish thing would be to let her slip in to obscurity and not save her she can still out perform any ship of her class. And she is still a great ship, what we owe her is to do the right thing and restore her. if this country cant even see that she is a symbol of pride and a national treasure then I am not sure I want to be a part of it, 1 dollar per every AMERICAN would cause her to be in running shape is that to much to ask, I am sure if someone where to say lets dredge up the Arizona there would be such an out cry that the proposed would be lynched well I think the same thing should be done for the S.S. United States, I am sending off my $26 dollars today and joining this small band of enthusiasts, I will fight people like you till the end Sir, She is the last of her kind mankind has built her and mankind can save her, she deserves our support and respect and money not the torch John Anderson And Proud of it, HELP SAVE THE S.S. United States ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Lkjohnson214@aol.com Subject: Re: USS Langley Adrian, I have the article, somewhere. Probably by the porcelain throne. Just saw it a few days ago. If you want, contact me and I can burn a copy off for you if I can find where I put the copy of FSM Lance ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: USS Langley in 1/700 >> I don't know about the exact time frame but Iron Shipright had their 1/350 Langley at the Nats in Va Beach. It's currently in production. You can contact IS direct and ask your questions. They would certainly be able to give you some answers. << Pre-war, from the set of biplanes provided. I would guess mid 1930s Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Stephen Allen" Subject: CC Lee and Arii Beehive CVAN 65 Enterprises I'm told that the CC Lee Enterprise is either a reboxing of or a copy of the Arii CVN65 Enterprise. Has anybody on the list made a direct comparison between the two, and do you have any thoughts about relative quality? regards Steve ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Ted0330@aol.com Subject: Re: the United States I regretfully agree with Mike Bartel- there is nothing to be done with the United States. I have intense and personal associations with the ship- my Father and I built the old plastic model of her when I was in 4th grade. It was the first ship model I 'built'. My Father died less than two years later. I cherish the memories of working on that model with him, and think of it when I work on others now with my son. The preservation of the ship, however, will not enhance my associations with it. I am from Philly, and have also seen the sad ruin of the United States. From my understanding of its condition, it will cost millions to repair it to the point that it can be used as a very questionable museum, restaurant or hotel. Its sad condition now dishonors its proud past and name. Better a clean death than this prolonged, sentiment-based illness. Many ships have strong associations, but only a few may be saved, and that only if they have use. I can see no use for the United States, and much expense that could not be defrayed. Very sad, but realistic, Ted Tsaltas ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Shane Subject: Attn Jaime Campbell Hi Jaime, Sorry to have to answer you via the list, but your work email keeps bouncing :-( and it's the only one I seem to have. Yes, we have your pics & they'll be posted shortly. Regards, Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume