Subject: SMML VOL 1932 Date: Sat, 21 Sep 2002 00:55:16 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: DVD Vs VHS 2: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? 3: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? 4: HMS Lotus 5: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? 6: Re: SS United States 7: Do you VHS or DVD? 8: to Scrap or not to scrap 9: United States 10: Places of interest in Vancouver & LA 11: Re: IPMS NATIONALS, UK 12: DVD or Videotape 13: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? 14: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? 15: SS UNITED STATES 16: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? 17: Re: SS United States- Scrap Her Now 18: Re: DVD's 19: saving ships ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Re: DVD Vs VHS not all DVD players are universal.. well I guess all that are players.i have the playstation 2 & that only plays PAL Dvd..so I cant get Gettysburg on DVD as its NTSC V4..oh well next task after I stop buying models & reference books or at least take a break from the buying of stuff I used to copy all my video stuff on what I thought were good quality tapes...i left them in the shelf for a coupel of years & I got them out the other month..all have white lines & look rubbish..& you would not believe it on one of the current affairs shows a few weeks later they tested VHS cassettes I think most didn't pass for long term storage (eg weddings( not that im married LOL), airshows, navy open days)..so now I have all my avalon airshows & navy open days tapes from a few years ago ruined...so now when I ever get round to it, I have to get what I can still salvage & get those on DVD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Burl Burlingame Subject: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? Actually, DVD is not world-wide. The globe is divided into DVD "zones" or "regions" ... The U.S. is in region #1. It's like PAL-formatted VHS tapes. (sigh) Burl Burlingame ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? So far my DVD is just in my computer, but that will change shortly. Yeah, and I have a VHS, though no intention of ever replacing it with a new one. Ken Goldman THE WALRUS AND THE CARPENTER unique wood sculpture and fine scale models www.walruscarpenter.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: MMclau1079@aol.com Subject: HMS Lotus Hi Paul Harley, HMS Lotus played perhaps the only redeeming role for the Royal Navy in it's handling of PQ.17 after Admiral of the Fleet Sir Dudley Pound ordered the escorts and convoy to "scatter" on his mistaken personal belief that Tirpitz had sailed leaving the merchant ships at the mercy of the Luftwaffe and U-boats. (Prior to the order to scatter, the escorts had provided excellent protection for this convoy.) In the massacre that followed the order to scatter the 36 merchant ships of PQ.17 that had sailed for Russia, U-boats sank sixteen and the Luftwaffe sank an additional eight for the loss of only five aircraft. Lost with the sunk 24 merchant ships were 152 merchant seaman, 430 tanks, 210 warplanes, 3,350 vehicles along with 99,316 tons of additional war material and supplies. Under the command of Lt Henry Hall RN, HMS Lotus asked for several times and was eventually granted permision to sail back into the carnage and rescued sixty survivors including the convoy's Commodore Jack Dowding. In Camouflage Volume Two: Royal Navy 1942, the author Alan Raven provides HMS Lotus configuration and camouflage pattern for September 1942. The covoy battle took place in July 1942 so, the pattern represented may or may not apply. (Hopefully, WR Press or others on this site will answer this question.) Man O' War 7 by Anthony Preston and Alan Raven descibes HMS Lotus as a Modified Flower with widened bilge keels, increased sheer and flare and bridge modifications which included the type 271 lantern radar. This book also, provides a very good photo of HMS Lotus in her Septmber 1942 camouflage pattern. You can read more about PQ.17 and HMS Lotus role in this disaster in Paul Kemp's book Convoy: Drama In Arctic Waters. Hope that helps, Miles F. McLaughlin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? It was hard for me to decide but now that I have a DVD player I will never go back. One of the neat features of the one I have (Phillips) is that it also play JPEGs as sort of a slide show. It is really awesome to see downloaded photos from the net, burned to a CD and then played on the TV - great resolution as compared to a computer screen. But back to the DVDs, I love the stop action and the zoom and all the other little goodies they add to some of the DVD's Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: SS United States Never give up!!! We all still have memories of the USS CABOT, that she was allowed to be scrapped - some of which I blame on the nits in Washington. You cannot stop trying. If that was the case we still would not be working on saving the USS DES MOINES - we are still working on her and will not give up until she is ours!! The Navy has been very cooperative in holding on to her for decades past what should have been her scrapping date. Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Timothy Dike cadman@modelwarships.com Subject: Do you VHS or DVD? DVD would be the better choice. Besides you set it up with a menu to allow more options. DVD is far superior to VHS when it comes to freezing the frame to view a still image, or advance frame by frame. Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: to Scrap or not to scrap With the discussion on the SS United States. please don't get mad if part of this upsets any current museum or helper at some museum Now look at many of the museums around the world that woul dlove to have a DD or CG or BB/CV in their museum collection, but as been often talked about $5,000,000.00 per ship & then you have the upkeep on it & now with business's wanting to keep a few dollars in their purses, how many would be willing to cough up $2M or a sizeable donation (unless its Tax deductable) or you have some rich person who loves large ships (Ross Perot, Kery Packer etc)..next if a company donates the money..mueusm don't make good profits & the only people who would really profit from something like this would be tourism, but would a $5m outlay & then what $1m per year or every 2 years for only a 1/4 in return?? Next you have the financial situation of the navy.... $5m as a donation or probably $7m from a scrapper, with cut backs (or limitations at least), of course the navy would most likely pick the better profit margin. Something else to think about..what happens in the future... say a ship is at a museum & that musem goes belly up in 5 years & no one can take the ship..well off to the scrappers it goes or gets passed around like pass the parcel game. A historical ship you say??? isnt every ship historical.. USS Enterprise from WW2, the carriers that rescued the moon landng spaceships... the ship that had the signing of world peace on its deck..or the ship that single handed deafed the enemy at some battle...the worlds speediest cruise ship.....isnt every ship famous at one stage for something..does that mean we can save every ship..right??? we must realy look at how many ships we can & I mean really save & give a good home & future to..we cant save every ship & we have to let a few slip thru our fingers... but if we save just 1 every now & then, then that ship could be a museum to all her sister ships or style of ship. that's just my thoughts...so again if I offend any museums or museum helpers... I praise your work to save as many ships you can..but you cant save em all Andrew Jones OZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Jeff Herne, NJAHOF" Subject: United States Folks, I'm steamed...and ALL my boilers are lit. The United States is not the eye-sore you've all been led to believe...how do I know? I'll tell you...the gent who founded the NJ Aviation Hall of Fame and Museum, which I am director, served as cruise director for United States Lines for almost 15 years, from the late 40's into the early 60s. Every knows that famous picture of the United States passing America leaving NY Harbor?? He took the photo. I've seen the negative. He's got wonderful photos of him escorting Eisenhower, the Duke and Duchess of Earl, Frank Sinatra, and others aboard America and United States... We were aboard the ship about a year ago, because he still has high level connections, with who, I don't know, I was just asked if I want to see her...and I can tell you firsthand, internally, that ship is in WONDERFUL condition. Paint is not peeling, there's no stagnant odors eminating from her spaces. The engine room is navigable, there's not the usual clutter and junk laying about. The bridge looks as if you could flip a switch and pull her away from the dock. There are some spaces that have been ripped out by the removal of the asbestos, but by in large, these spaces would need to be renovated anyway. She may look rough on the outside...but most ships that sit for period of time do. The NJ was not as pretty as she today, same for Missouri. Although they received general exterior maintenace, the paint was still peeling and there was rust on her when she arrived. The United States is a landmark...no matter how you look at her. I think her hull design is still considered classified information, or a company secret, something to that effect. Sadly, I doubt she will be brought back to her former glory. Museums (trust me on this) are having a hard time finding funding, and a museum such as the United States would require upwards of 50 million dollars for startup costs. That's alot of money, no question. Then you need a location (Liberty State Park, next to that other eyesore, the Grand Lady. That's sarcasm folks), and a facility built around her. What annoys me most...is that this country has given up some incredible vessels due to complacency...the Enterprise, the America, the Cabot, and now the United States...most folks complain that it'll never happen, they discourage those that try, and after the ship is gone they cry and moan that another nautical treasure is lost...and 'someone should have done something'. WE ARE THE SOMEONES PEOPLE! I don't know about you blokes, but I can sure as hell drink $26 worth of beer at any pub on any given night...maybe I'll stay home this weekend and send that $26 to the United States Foundation. Jeff Herne ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Kenneth Ng Subject: Places of interest in Vancouver & LA Can SMMLers tell me what are the places of maritime interest in Vancouver (Canada) and Los Angeles (USA)? Or places that would be of interest to ship modellers? What are the best model shops (ship wise) in these 2 cities? Thanks in advance! Kenneth ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "WEM" Subject: Re: IPMS NATIONALS, UK Dear Mr WR PRESS, It would indeed be very nice to see you and the Missus again in the Land of Cheap Scotch! I have a special page dedicated to Telford and the IPMS Nationals, on the 9th and 10th November, which, of course, is the largest IPMS event in the world. http://dspace.dial.pipex.com/town/avenue/xdt22/modelworld2002.htm Also, for REALLY cheap flights to the U.K., try http://www.skyauction.com You bid on destinations (think Birmingham or Manchester airport for the IPMS Nationals) covering all major airlines such as Lufthansa, AA, BA and Virgin. The tickets are from either "East, West, or Central" points in the U.S. E.g when you bid on a west coast ticket you can choose from LA, San Francisco or Seattle for departure. There is a built-in option, if you "win", whereby you can fly from a smaller airport (John used to do Sacramento) for a little extra cost. Typically, he was getting tickets from Sac. to Birmingham for 1/3 to 1/2 of what he previously paid. You also have the advantage that you have a two to three month slot in which to take your flights. They're great for holidays, too... John, Dave and I got a 2-Bed, 2-Bath Swiss-style chalet and a stable conversion, loch- and mountain-side, in Scotland, for a week, for only $2.00!! Happy Hunting, and we look forward to seeing a load of SMMLlie folk there again at this year's event ;^) Regards, Caroline and John Snyder White Ensign Models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "John Rule" Subject: DVD or Videotape >> My question is, "How many of you on the SMML, world wide that is, have DVD players? << I have a DVD Player. But they may go the way of the 8-track too. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Charlie Jarvis Subject: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? >> My question is, "How many of you on the SMML, world wide that is, have DVD players? << I have both, DVD is a clearer picture, better sound, will last longer. I'd say, go with DVD. Charlie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Rick Biesik" Subject: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? I have 1 DVD player, 2 VHS players and 2 Beta players. Richard R.Biesik ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Katz, Gene S" Subject: SS UNITED STATES OK, I must ring in on this sad discussion. I am probably the only SMML memeber who actually set foot aboard her. I was a Merchant Marine Cadet (Deck) and was aboard her at the end of her real life as we know it. Standing on the wing of her bridge I saw her smaller sister SS AMERICA moored alongside her, as well as the AMERICAN PLANTER. The AMERICA was one of the first US Steam Navigation Co. (US LINE) ships I boarded when I got my first USCG-Certified Seaman's Papers (Merchant Mariner's Document) and my National Maritime Union (NMU) card (this was when I was still in high school). The UNITED STATES was a beautiful ship, trust me. I trod her decks, climbed her ladders, ate at her table, introduced to using a sextant, etc. And yes, if each and every American threw in a buck or two it might help save her from being raped, burned, and pillaged anymore than she already has. But that isn't going to happen, and our Congress in their infinite wisdom and the best of benevolent moods won't do anything either. (Well, maybe a word or two in the Record, but no $$$). I refuse to use the term dinosaur about her, but dinosauri (dinosaurs ?) are pretty much known to just about everyone. I stood on the fantail of the NEW JERSEY last week to attend a charity event, surrounded by local politicians (which Thank God I am not) and their hangers on and PR flacks. I pointed out the UNITED STATES to a group of folks and told them about her Blue Riband and how she was a Naval Reserve vessel (flew the pennant cause most of her officers were USNR and held Reserve meetings onboard her), her drive train being same as the NEW JERSEY, only wood aboard being the violins, piano, and butcher's chopping blocks, and the secret - for many years- top speed she hit on full builders trials. I could have been talking to the monkeys in the Philly Zoo, and would have gotten more response from them. My captive audience didn't know, didn't want to know, and could care less. There I was on the deck of one of our mightiest ships, speaking about and praising one of the finest liners in the latter half of the 20th Century, and bemoaning how she now looked and had been treated, and the collective response was more akin to, "oh? really? I wondered what that BOAT(!!!) was. too bad. any more cokes?". Translation: tell somebody who cares, but they wouldn't even give me a quarter to make the call like the C&W song said. Every time I cross the bridge or drive up Delaware Ave, I look at her and sigh. My wife says she can see a change come over me as I look at the tops of her funnels! But, my brothers and sisters, we are prob the only ones who feel that way. And we are a minority (shipbuilders) and even a minorities' minority (ocean liners vs. warships) among majorities (panzers, mustangs, 109s, and Shermans). The only other ones who care are the antique and artifact dealers who sell her linens and crockery and fittings, and they care only about how much profit they can make off of her name. Is it depressing? Sure as hell is. Is it sad? Damn right. Is it her fate? Yep, afraid so. Would I love to see a real DECENT 1/350 or 1/400 of her (and the AMERICA, REX, etc.)? I drool at the very idea! Welcome to the 21st Century in our world. Reality bites. End of sermon. Sent with regret... Gene S. Katz Senior Member Engineering Staff Lockheed Martin NE&SS - SS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: JFR1945@aol.com Subject: Re: Do you VHS or DVD? >> My question is, "How many of you on the SMML, world wide that is, have DVD players? << I have both DVD and VHS players, but the future is clearly DVD, especially now that writeable DVD capability is on its way.... John Reeder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Mike Petersen" Subject: Re: SS United States- Scrap Her Now >> Anyone that promotes the cutting up of the UNITED STATES is just plain Un-American, why don't we just burn the Declaration of independence, hell it is a peaceful document, Warships are a unique category themselves while the Trans-Atlantic Liners are in a Category all them selves, << A little overly dramatic aren't we? Although I would love to see the US refurbished for some purpose, if there isn't the money to do it, what else do you do? Do you let it rot on a pier like it is now? That isn't the life this great ship deserves. >> We lost 2 towers of Americanism already to terrorism please let us not loose 1 more to the terror of an American cutting torch or anyone's cutting torch. << Very bad comparison. Hard to believe that someone would find any comparison there. :( >> Internally she is in perfect condition and preserved and is in running shape it is her external appearance that is decayed and worn, 50 million would restore her to museum status and 220 million would get her to operational status, Remember she could do so much as a relief, disaster, communications ship at for the cost of a couple of tomahawk missiles we could save and promote this great ship and country, << It's not just the original cost, it's where to put her and the continuing annual cost. ALthough I would go see her if she was turned into a museum I don't think that the tourist dollars would be there as compared to an aircraft carrier or BB. As to the thought she could be a relief ship or such there are already enough ships to cover this what with USNS Mercy and Comfort. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Robert Healy" Subject: Re: DVD's Reference Steve Wiper and DVD's. Yes, I have been dragged into the 21st Century kicking and screaming when my wife bought me a DVD player a couple of months ago. I rented "Behind Enemy Lines" as a first try. Cool, very cool. Much more versatile than the VHS. Want to replay a scene? click. Want to see the deleted versions? Click. Very impressive. Quality is far superior also. I just dread having to replace my VHS collection with DVD's. It can be expensive. And the kids want an X-Box...and we have nintendo now...so on and so forth. However, they are not universal. When I was in Japan last year I was going to buy one, or at least price one. I was told that they are now "coded". What's this I asked. Well, you see, some DVDs are directed at a particular market. Asian coded ones (DVD's)will not work on European manufactured machines and so forth. I have not put this to the test yet, however I think with the pirating and all the Hollywood howling about it I think there is something to it. Anyone else heard this or is it just another urban legend. Just a thought. Regards to all, Bob Healy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: saving ships I agree completely with Mr. Bartel's assessment of the SS US. you can't save them all, there aren't enough resources, and though it would be nice, it is not realistic or practical. if there was enough interest (and $$) to save her, it would have been shown and spent. it's not that simple to establish a boat museum--especially a big boat museum. and anyone who harbors fantasies of such an endeavor, should have a serious conversation with those who have done it--who are struggling to do it. find out how much it costs in moorage (charged per day), in paint (it'll need a repaint every 3 years or so), in drydocking (even if you have cathodic protection), and then calculate how much of your paycheck it will take how long to effect all of that. and this is just the tip of that proverbial iceberg. there's also the state and city regulatory issues, how to secure the vessel from pilferage, how to make it safe for visitors, etc. etc. it is a non-stop fundraising effort. it is a fulltime job. and most folks want to treat it like a hobby. this is not to say to not try it--just that one should go into it with eyes wide open, be prepared for the sacrifices it will require, and realize that the whole world really doesn't give a damn about your favorite project. every boat has its fanclub. I went on that cruise to the mothball fleet and watched others worship at the altar of the battleship Iowa. among our group were those who were sentimental about just about every warship in that collection--my personal favorite is the Hoga--and if we each got our wish, we'd each be personally responsible for a $5mil project and, personally, I don't have that kind of $$. and there aren't enough people in the world as potential visitors to make all of them viable--one has to be selective. you and me, we care about ships--that's why we're on this list, but to make a museum ship successful, you have to make people who never gave it a thought a reason to care about it as you do. as evidenced by the SS US situation, there just aren't enough of us to make it happen by ourselves. visitors will have to come from the general public, and before you can infect them with your enthusiasm, you have to attract them aboard. a ship museum is a fulltime marketing effort. but above all, a museum ship is a business and has to be run like one. it can't be treated like a hobby or a personal tubtoy. for a taste of what is required of a ship museum project, look at the NavSea requirements: http://www.navsea.navy.mil/ndp/ and for a taste of the cost and the rocky road to success, examine the histories of the existing museums. all of them at one time or another had to be bailed out by someone. it's not about patriotism or the lack thereof. we can't save them all. choose the battle that has the best chance of being successful. there's no point in losing your house over a lost cause. s ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume