Subject: SMML VOL 1937 Date: Mon, 23 Sep 2002 13:20:19 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: DUKW in Germany 2: Re: saving ships 3: Ship preservation 4: Re: Preserving old ships 5: Re: stanchions 6: Apollo 12 7: Re: stanchions 8: preservation... 9: modern aircract carrier flight rules 10: Display Question 11: Lindberg Hood thanks 12: Musashi Colors 13: Re: DVD -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: HMS Hood is Back ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: thorstenwahl@t-online.de (Wahl, Thorsten) Subject: DUKW in Germany re: Dirkīs post regarding DUKW pictures Hi Dirk, if this helps - DUKWs are still in use with the THW (thatīs Technisches HilfsWerk - the German equivalent to FEMA for those not familiar w/ German emergency agencies ;-) You might try your luck w/ the, maybe they can help. HIH Thors Munich/Germany ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: saving ships >> beautiful plans for her, but ...! There are people like Bill Gates who have money they don't know what to do with and they are the people we should go after. Imagine a National treasure for us and tax deductions for them -- a win - win for everyone. << I'm the last person to defend Bill Gates, but his name is always brought up when talk of saving ships comes up. In my opinion, his work at donating money to schools, setting up computer labs, and the other charity work he does with his money is just as important (and in the light of the diminishing public schools in this country) and probably more critical than him saving every ship that is ready to go to the cutters. Like I tell the charity telemarketers every time I get a call, I can't support every charity there is, no matter how crucial; I don't have enough money or time. You have to pick your battles. Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: raisingirl@mindspring.com Subject: Ship preservation hello all.... John Snyder wrote: >> In my quarter century in the business, I've seen LOTS of them. One that will haunt the YORKTOWN in years to come was the replacement of her flight deck surface with concrete a few years back. << Bless you, Token Yank, for bringing something up that is incredibly irksome to me. Every time I visit the Yorktown I see more and more of her flight deck covered in concrete and it absolutely makes my skin creep. There's *so* much about how that ship is preserved (or not preserved) that should serve as a warning to others in the business. (And, admittedly, a lot of it comes from being supported in part by the government of a small, poor state whose annual budgets regularly have less and less funding for education, so if education takes a hit, what happens to "expendable" things like supporting a museum?) It's been sad, watching the Yorktown deteriorate over the last 21 years. I first went aboard her in 1981, as a not-quite eight-year-old, and I was wowed. Even in 1988, when the Clamagore and Laffey and Savannah (and the sainted Comanche) were there, the Yorktown looked great. But after the land development scandal in 1990, and after Hurricane Hugo hit, things went downhill fast. To the museum's credit, the current director has done a great deal to get the museum righted in the last seven years, but there's been a lot of damage done to those ships. Certainly the Laffey partially sinking at her berth in 1994 or so didn't buy them any goodwill with the Navy. Since the s/s United States has been a part of my life for the last 11 years, I guess I should contribute my two cents. From 1991 to about 1995 (when I got totally burned out from working in historic preservation) I was rather active (although distantly so) in some efforts to preserve and restore that ship, and part of what I did was to write a master plan for her restoration. Though the figures escape me, we were looking at that point about, IIRC, at least $100 million and up to $350 million in 1994 dollars for her acquisition and then complete and total restoration to 1952 standard, and I don't think that included getting her powertrain back in commission. It included acquiring a berth for her and constructing shoreside facilities for exhibits, administration, support, maintenance, etc. One reason why it was a LOT of money is because by that point her entire interior had been gutted, and we would have had to totally reconstruct it. It would be even more now because all her lifeboats and davits have been removed and scrapped, as have her cargo booms. Not to mention all the detective work one would have to do to track down original artifacts, especially vital ones like her whistles, and we'd have to re-create a lot of artwork that's now in museums and that museums would never, ever give back. The stuff from the Big U is so scattered far and wide (I can vouch for that, as I have some small items from her in my own collection). I am all for saving the Big U. But I'm not so sure that everyone is on the same page about just what's going to be involved, especially the money involved. She's a big ship and she's going to require a LOT of work to be restored and maintained in the dignified form she deserves. The problem is, the man who was the reason she existed, and who loved her more than anyone else, and who was one of the main reasons why she hung around long after she had become unprofitable, was a man who's been dead 35 years. Since then, she's had no one with any means to love her and support her, and she's essentially been an orphan, and she's fallen into the hands of people whose intentions might have been good but whose actions have been questionable, and people who have seen her as a commodity rather than a great ship that possesses a soul. The other thing is, preserving ANY ship is a question of preserving something that wasn't intended to be kept in perpetuity. Ships are meant to be used, are meant to go to sea, are meant to have a service life, are meant to be maintained by professionals and are employed by corporations whose profits (or governments whose revenues) fund the ships' upkeep. But most preservation efforts have the ship sitting idle, have very small budgets, and can't maintain a ship to the same standard, especially if it's a large ship. And a lot of important but expensive maintenance gets deferred until it reaches kind of a crisis point. So what's the answer? I don't know. My heart says "save her." I love that ship like she's a part of me, although I've never been aboard her. I've seen her up close and know how absolutely majestic she is. But my mind knows it's a formidable challenge, and that the economy isn't healthy, and that the Big U will always suffer compared to other museum ships because she never carried big guns or had airplanes flying off her or was never painted haze gray. (Witness the short, unhappy life of n/s Savannah when she was part of the Patriots Point fleet. The kids all wanted to go aboard the warships, but the Savannah was big and white and voluptuous and merchant-y and...bored them completely, you know? Why go aboard a big cavernous gallery of a ship when you can look at airplanes with guns and missiles on them? And I speak as someone who dearly loves the Savannah, and ached at how neglected she was there, and who wishes that some of Patriots Point's plans to develop the ship into a resort had come through.) And my mind also knows there are a lot of other ships out there that would require a lot less effort to acquire, restore, and maintain. If I had the $350 million, you bet I'd call Cantor's company right now and snap her up. But unless a sugar daddy or sugar mommy comes along for the Big U, I don't think the prognosis is that good. And that, as Kent Brockman says, is my two cents. jodie ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: Preserving old ships Regarding the talk about a ship being brought ashore and or partially buried in the land, does anyone know the status of the USS BATFISH in Oklahoma, I know it has been there for many years and because she sits on the land and not that much in the land she can be maintained somewhat better. However, there is a certain amount of her "buried" including the bottom. Anyone know if this has caused a deterioration of the lower hull. Always looked good when I saw the rest of her. Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: stanchions >> BlueJackets sells these and I assume they purchase them from some supplier << Blue Jacket does make a lot of their own fittings, at least the white metal ones, so they may have the stanchions made for them too. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: annobon4@aol.com Subject: Apollo 12 Hi Guys This isn't exactly about ships but it does come close. Back in 1969 Apollo 12 was launched into space to go to the moon. Since the Apollo rocket used 3 stages to gain speed and leave earth orbit. The 3rd stage used to take the command module and Lunar lander to the half way point and the lunar lander was pulled out by the command module. This rocket booster continued on leaving the earth and moon and then orbited the sun taking 31 yrs. According to the news it's now returning close to the earth. Since the sun is 93 million miles away from earth how many miles would this thing traveled.? Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: ALROSS2@aol.com Subject: Re: stanchions >> BlueJackets sells these and I assume they purchase them from some supplier Does anyone know the source? << They are specially machined for them and they have to buy them in lots of several thousand. Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Chris & Dennis Otto" Subject: preservation... The United States was a magnificent liner in her day; I had the priveledge of visiting her in New York in 1956 on a class trip. Both Queens, the America, Ile de France, Constitution(or her sister) and 1 Italian Line liner were all in that day...wotta GR8 site for a 10 year old interested in ships! Is she historically important? well...... As others have noted: it costs major money to keep these ships as museums. On the other hand, for those of you with access to Lake Michigan, there is a totally functional contemporary of the United States that is still operating: the S.S. Badger, last operating ferry on the lakes. She was launched in 1952 in Sturgeon Bay, Wisconsin: boy did she make a SPLASH! Sideways launch. I was sitting on my dad's shoulders watching that memorable (to me) launch. She still sails from Spring to Fall-really enjoyable way to spend about 4 hours crossing the lake between Manitowac, Wisc. and Ludington, Mi. I've now crossed with her 4 times; each was a pleasurable event! The ol Badger isn't as "pretty" as the United States, nor as fast, (there's a understatement worthy of the Brits!) but she does a fine (coal burning) job of crossing back and forth. The early morning/breakfast run out of Ludington is a real nice way to have breakfast. Regards, Dennis F. Otto ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: modern aircract carrier flight rules Hey all Saw "Sum of all fears" on the weekend...ho hum movie...question about the attack on the carrier (a carrier could survive about 5 hits from as-4 style anti ship missiles ..but who knows) ..my question is that I seem to remember that a carier is 24 flight ops, so that always there would be a awac's plane with say 2 F/a-18s or tomcats in the air at anyone time with 1 or 2 on the cat?? is this still the case or was that only during the cold war like with the airfoce on 5 min launch with fighters with engines running & bombers on 15min launch times etc? cuz I just found it odd that a that the CIC would pick up the inbounds before any AWACS or AEGIS would first..but hey its just a movie! Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Hubert Letterly Subject: Display Question I know that a majority of the large scale ship modelers don't have this problem but us 1/700 scale guys don't have a choice because we prefer waterline ships. I have a majority of my waterline ships displayed as a single unit in a case but I am beginning to get bored with that look. A few ships together are more interesting wether they are on the open sea or in harbor. Some of the small craft mixed in with the larger ships adds so much more interest as does the Dockyard Mates on the piers. What percentage of us like the multiple ship displays. What types of items are the most popular for adding to this type of display. I am looking for new ways of putting ships together in a small display. Thanks Hugh ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Bob McDonald" Subject: Lindberg Hood thanks Thanks everyone for the advice on the Lindberg Hood both through the list and my home email. I shall treat it as the sleeping dog you have described and let this one lie. For those interested A$60 is about US$109 Thanks Bob Mac ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Cameron Lynch" Subject: Musashi Colors Ok. I picked up the Tamiya new tool Musashi and am hooked... I've settled on WEM Sasebo gray for the hull and superstructure and WEM IJN deck tan for the majority of the deck. What is the color used on the deck where the fantail catapults are used? It doesn't look like the hull color... Suggestions? Any other colors I should be aware of? I've got the underwater red and gold for the crysanthemum. Thanks in advance. Cameron ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: NAVYDAZE@aol.com Subject: Re: DVD OK so now I have the DVD bug. I do have a DVD player but I just installed it on my computer for under $50.00. Now the great thing I like about DVDs anyway is all the extras you get, such as on the Movie "The Wild Bunch" there is a whole photo story on how the movie was made in Mexico - quite long too. But now that I have it on my computer there is an extra bonus - you can pause the DVD and then do a screen capture that comes with the DVD program. Then you just paste it onto you favorite Graphics program and print it - or tune it up a little if you wish and then print it. I have the whole series of "Crusade in the Pacific" and believe it or not, it prints out a pretty decent shot - eventually I hope to get the "Victory at Sea" series and be able to do the same. So all I can say is I am hooked! Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "shaya" Subject: HMS Hood is Back http://www.modelshipbuilding.com/400hood.htm The Heller 1/400 HMS Hood has docked again at the Naval Base we were able to only get a dozen ships, we have 3 left. Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies www.modelshipbuilding.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume