Subject: SMML VOL 1938 Date: Tue, 24 Sep 2002 03:46:14 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Lindberg Hood 2: Re: Lindberg HMS Hood 3: Re: Display Question 4: Apollo 12 - Proof that what goes around, comes around... 5: Displaying waterline models 6: Re: modern aircract carrier flight rules 7: Preserving old ships 8: Re: Apollo 12 9: DUKW in Warrenville (Was: DUKW in Germany) 10: Re: OT: Cheverolet d.u.k.w. 11: Re: Batfish (was Preserving Old Ships) 12: IJN kits 13: Apollo 12 14: OOPS 15: Re: Heller Battleships? 16: Re: Preserving old ships 17: Re: OZ $$$$ 18: Re: Lindberg HMS Hood 19: Re: modern aircract carrier flight rules ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Chuck Messer" Subject: Re: Lindberg Hood The Lindberg Hood just plain sucks. If it were any more of a dog, it would lift its leg on your sofa. Don't buy it. Heller's isn't perfect, but it at least LOOKS like the Hood. There you have it. Chuck ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: NEVENGER@aol.com Subject: Re: Lindberg HMS Hood I would not worry to much about getting the Lindberg if you want a model of quality. If you have kids and want to break them into modeling the Lindberg version I think is great. If you want something to build for yourself but is still cheap then get the 1/400 Heller kit. I just got the Heller kit myself and while it may not be as good as gold it is at least as good as silver. Counting the Lindberg as good as copper in value that is. While none of the local stores in the US that I know of has gotten the Hood in stock, I can say thank you to WEM for getting me mine. Ray if you are reading this remember I got mine first and I promise to bring it by first chance. Rich ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Lester Abbey" Subject: Re: Display Question >> I have a majority of my waterline ships displayed as a single unit in a case but I am beginning to get bored with that look. A few ships together are more interesting wether they are on the open sea or in harbor. Some of the small craft mixed in with the larger ships adds so much more interest as does the Dockyard Mates on the piers. What percentage of us like the multiple ship displays. What types of items are the most popular for adding to this type of display. I am looking for new ways of putting ships together in a small display. << Count me in. I buy all of the 1/700 accessories such as Dockyard Mateys, Harbourcraft, vehicles, docks, buildings for a grand diorama to display my collection. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Richa5011@aol.com Subject: Apollo 12 - Proof that what goes around, comes around... The following Rueters report observes thta the third-stage made 33 orbits of the sun in 31 years.... >> Apollo Rocket Returns to Earth Orbit After 31 Years Reuters WASHINGTON (Sept. 20) - A long-lost piece of an Apollo rocket has returned to Earth orbit after decades of racing around the Sun, the first time our planet has captured an object from solar orbit, astronomers said on Friday. Earth's new satellite is most likely the third stage of a massive Saturn V rocket that lifted Apollo 12 astronauts to the moon in November 1969, according to astronomers at NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in Pasadena, California. Last seen in an elongated 43-day orbit around Earth, the bus-sized rocket stage escaped Earth orbit in March 1971, the laboratory's Paul Chodas said in a statement. Known now as J002E3 and first seen by an amateur astronomer starting on Sept. 3, the rocket stage probably completed nine or 10 Earth orbits, then swung far enough toward the Sun to be pulled into a Sun-centered orbit, Chodas said. The transition occurred through a special portal located at the L1 Lagrangian point, where the gravitational pulls of the Sun and Earth are about equal. "Last week we didn't know for sure that it had been captured, and now there's no doubt that it was captured in April of this year," Chodas said. "What's more, we are virtually certain that it originally escaped Earth orbit in March 1971 and that it will escape again next June," he said. "It's only a temporary visitor." There is less than a 1 percent chance that J002E3 will hit either Earth or the moon before its departure from Earth orbit, the statement said. Even if it did, its relatively small size -- about 60 feet long -- means it would not be considered hazardous. Scientists at the University of Arizona, Tucson, and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology analyzed the object's surface this week to determine it was white paint and not some asteroid-like material. If it is not from the Apollo 12 rocket, this object might be one of the four 22-foot panels that enclosed lunar modules from six Apollo missions or rocket stages from Soviet or U.S. unmanned lunar missions. Those are less likely because they seem too small to match the object's observed brightness, and they are not known to have been left in orbits that could have escaped Earth, the statement said. When J002E3 was circling the Sun, it completed 33 orbits in the time it took Earth to orbit 31 times. It lapped Earth once in 1986, but was not snagged by Earth's gravity; this year it was about to lap Earth again but passed too close to the L1 portal and Earth captured it. << ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "David Miller" Subject: Displaying waterline models The reason I like waterline so much is that I can compare ships more easily. So 99% of mine are simply "loose" and displayed in a large glass cabinet. Periodically I go in and rearrange everything as I did this past weekend. For instance, Yamato, New Jersey and KGV are next to each other. Boy, does the KGV look small! I have about 40 ships whose quality might equal Jim Baumann's when he was in 1st grade, but I like them and I love to look at them. Dave Miller Palm Bay, FL USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "John Anderson" Subject: Re: modern aircract carrier flight rules >> Saw "Sum of all fears" on the weekend...ho hum movie...question about the attack on the carrier (a carrier could survive about 5 hits from as-4 style anti ship missiles ..but who knows) ..my question is that I seem to remember that a carier is 24 flight ops, so that always there would be a awac's plane with say 2 F/a-18s or tomcats in the air at anyone time with 1 or 2 on the cat?? is this still the case or was that only during the cold war like with the airfoce on 5 min launch with fighters with engines running & bombers on 15min launch times etc? cuz I just found it odd that a that the CIC would pick up the inbounds before any AWACS or AEGIS would first..but hey its just a movie! << Well Andrew I was an Air traffic Controller on board U.S.S. Nimitz CVN-68, out of Norfolk Virginia back in 83 before she got transferred to the west coast and when crossing the Atlantic on a number of times at night we would not have a single aircraft in the air and our navigational light set up so that from a distance we looked like a large tanker. This might go on for 2 days and then we would carry on flight ops again and then just before crossing thru the Straits of Gibraltar we would again go dark and flight less for a day or so before and after crossing thru, reason well, simple if it looks like a tanker and acts like a tanker @ night then it probable is a tanker, (in Theory anyway) and our escort ships would straggle thru a day earlier or latter and catch up or slow down so that the group could form it's defensive dome so it is not surprising that there where no aircraft in the air what is surprising is that the defensive screen of ships 100 miles out in some cases did not pick up on the Missiles. And that the phalinx system did not take them out along with the Sea Sparrows (BMDPS) may have gotten one or two, the only time we had 5-min alert aircraft on the ready was in hostile airspace or we where in expectation of some possible trouble (Libyia) in the area. Or Lebanon or had major flight operations (air strike) in progress. But you are right the Ageis Systems on the Escort Screening ships should have picked up on and or taken out the missiles LONG before they got to the carrier and the Carrier would have been notified and Phalinx brought on line and aircraft launched if possible, true the Carrier would have survived the Missile hits but would have been out of action for flight operations in other words a mission kill, the ship would not be able to perform it's mission , since the flight deck would have been full of debris and fire ect. Though still capable of steaming she would have and to first clear the flight deck, assess internal damage, put the fires out and then try to get birds in the air, the helicopters if not destroyed (they are parked right next to the island) would have been the first things to get airborne, and from what I saw all radars where destroyed and they would have had to rely on the E-2 Hawkeye's for radar, if they also where not destroyed (also parked next to the island) 2 on the flight deck usually and 2 in the hangar bay. Remember the USS Forestall Fire and she did that to herself, mission killed. So Hollywood took allot of liberty in this action it was cool to see but a lot would have had to go wrong for those missiles to get where they got with out detection, but then again it brings up the USS COLE. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Kelvin Mok Subject: Preserving old ships >> Regarding the talk about a ship being brought ashore and or partially buried in the land, does anyone know the status of the USS BATFISH in Oklahoma, I know it has been there for many years and because she sits on the land and not that much in the land she can be maintained somewhat better. However, there is a certain amount of her "buried" including the bottom. Anyone know if this has caused a deterioration of the lower hull. Always looked good when I saw the rest of her. << At last. At least one person who thinks the idea has merit. Ships are not meant to last for ever. But she will certainly last a lot longer on dry land than leaving her floating by some shoreline. Okay dirt backfilling to enclose the hull is not such a good idea. But what about backfilling with large rocks for just a few feet around the hull. Any water seepage into the ground around the hull can be constantly pumped out to keep the hull dry and therefore retard rust formation. This is like the weeping tile around the outside perimeter of my basement. It will also prevent water seeping into the inside of the hull should the rust break through. This would be a major problem for a floating ship that could doom it as an exhibit long before the rest of the ship runs down. The ship is not brought onto dry land. It stays moored by the shore while a new pier, dock or whatever it is called is backfilled around it. This kind of preservation won't cost hundreds of millions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: Apollo 12 >> This isn't exactly about ships but it does come close. Back in 1969 Apollo 12 was launched into space to go to the moon. Since the Apollo rocket used 3 stages to gain speed and leave earth orbit. The 3rd stage used to take the command module and Lunar lander to the half way point and the lunar lander was pulled out by the command module. This rocket booster continued on leaving the earth and moon and then orbited the sun taking 31 yrs. According to the news it's now returning close to the earth. Since the sun is 93 million miles away from earth how many miles would this thing traveled.? << A rough calculation is a little more than 9 billion miles. Given the unknown parameters of the Apollo 12 3rd stage (S-IVB) orbit, it's hard to be exact. According to some articles, the stage orbited the Earth for awhile, perturbed by near passes by the Moon. On one of those passes, it was thrown off into Solar orbit. It will begin its Earth-Moon dance again for awhile, then spi off into space for another 31 years. It was first thought to be a captured asteroid, until a spectrographic analysis showed Titanium Dioxide -- the white paint NASA used on boosters. They say it's visible in a large amateur telescope (just as a speck.) Maybe we could retrieve it, bury it in a landfill, and turn it into a resort! :) Edd ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Edd Pflum Subject: DUKW in Warrenville (Was: DUKW in Germany) This won't be much help to our German friend, but there is a DUKW on display at the Contigny War Memorial, about 25 west of Chicago in Warrenville, Illinois. At least it was there several years ago when I last visited. At that time I was still able to crawl around on such things. AFAIR, the insides was a big, plain box (same size as a duece-and-a-half bed) and a standard duece-and-a-half cab separated by a bulkhead. I'm sure there were extra controls for the props, but time takes it's toll. DUKWs give river tours in the Wisconsin Dells (200 miles north/northwest of Chicago.) I also recall Lindberg (there's that name again) having a model of a DUKW. I can't at this distance speak to the absolute accuracy, but it looked like a ""Duck" (walked like a Duck, quacked like a Duck, so it musta been a Duck.) The scale was small, 1:48 or box scale. Edd ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Dirk Emmermacher" Subject: Re: OT: Cheverolet d.u.k.w. Hello Bruce. Thanks for your answer. >> Is there something specific you are looking for regarding the DUKW? I can probably get digital photos and post them to a modelling website that I maintain. << Its not for myself. A friend is searching for informations about the DUKW. I think, he was glad to get some digital pics... I will forward your information. If he interested in he will you contact directly. He will build a R/C controlled version in 1:87 scale... Dirk Emmermacher IG Mikromodell http://www.mikromodell.de mailto:emmermacher@hotmail.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Batfish (was Preserving Old Ships) >> Anyone know if this has caused a deterioration of the lower hull. Always looked good when I saw the rest of her. << Only way now that you're gonna know for sure, Mate, is to radiograph her hull from the inside. Don't forget your lead-lined skivvies.... Cheers, John Snyder ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "enrico villa" Subject: IJN kits Hi all, making some research on availvable kits of IJN ships in scales larger than 1/700, I have found that Otaki and Paramount (which I have never heard before) have some ships in 1/400, in particular Otaki the Nagato & Mutsu and Paramount Tone and Mogami. I'm particularly interested in the last two, since I don't know of any other kit in large scale (while for Nagato there is the Nichimo 1/500). Does anyone know something about these kits? Are they available somewhere or it's just the usual e-Bay (possibly at astral prices)? Thanks a lot! Enrico ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John Rule" Subject: Apollo 12 >> Since the sun is 93 million miles away from earth how many miles would this thing travelled.? << A gazillion two hundred and thirty three as of yesterday at 16:00hrs GMT. Don't tell me I just won the SS United States. Wait till I tell the wife. WTIC John Rule ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Rule" Subject: OOPS From Bob McDonald >> For those interested A$60 is about US$109 << Bob if ever you want to exchange some of my Australian dollars for US dollars, just let me know. Your rates are very attractive indeed. A$60 is about US$33. John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: BECJPARKER@aol.com Subject: Re: Heller Battleships? Someone was looking for one of the old Heller battleships, I think a Jean Bart a couple of weeks back. Shot me an e-mail if you are still interested. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Preserving old ships >> Regarding the talk about a ship being brought ashore and or partially buried in the land, does anyone know the status of the USS BATFISH in Oklahoma, I know it has been there for many years and because she sits on the land and not that much in the land she can be maintained somewhat better. However, there is a certain amount of her "buried" including the bottom. Anyone know if this has caused a deterioration of the lower hull. Always looked good when I saw the rest of her. << Went to see the old Bat last summer, still in pretty good shape, especially for a museum ship. Albacore is also grounded, buried up to the neutral bouancy line, and she had her entire superstructure ripped off form refit, got lots of good photos of the induction works, etc. Batfish simply rests on the bottom of her "drydock" When you go to Muskogee notice the guy wires leading from the boat. These are there to keep from from drifting downriver whenever the river rises too far. The last time the river got that high she floated and did not leak according to a volunteer-veteran. James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: HGYL@aol.com Subject: Re: OZ $$$$ I was intrigued to note that A$60 is "about US$109". Please let me know the name of your bank, mine will only give me about US 60c for each Oz $. Sounds like a great money making opportunity! Cheers all, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: David Wells Subject: Re: Lindberg HMS Hood "Bob McDonald" wrote: >> Just seen a Lindberg 400 scale HMS hood for $60 Australian. Anyone have any idea of the Quality and accuracy of said model. I've never heard of such, but there it was 15 feet at the the top of the shelf with no-one willing to get it down for me. << It's pretty bad. I wouldn't spend the money on it. There are numerous problems with it which are difficult to impossible to fix. The turrets look like they've been flattened. The whole model is covered with heavy steel panel lines, even the wooden decks! The cross-sectional shape of the hull is seriously wrong. The light AA guns are rather clumsylooking. I'd say that if you want a 1/400 Hood, get the Heller kit instead. (Even though I've never seen it out of the box, it's GOT to be better than the Lindberg!) BTW: You can always check Rajen's List for ship reviews, including lots of mine. http://www.quuxuum.org/rajens_list/shiprevs.html David R. Wells "There seems to be something wrong| with our bloody ships today" | Adm. D. Beatty, May 31, 1916 |http://home.att.net/~WellsBrothers/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: CDRSKI@aol.com Subject: Re: modern aircract carrier flight rules Andrew Flight operations are determined by the location and situation the carrier is in. I work the flight deck and have been through both. In a hostile area the ship will maintain a high alert status but will shut down operations with only an E-2 airborne and alert fighters on the cats ready to go. the flight deck crew is not a big division and crews have to rest sometime. So alerts are handled by the night shift witch is only a fraction of the day shift. It is very unlikely that a carrier would be hit in the manner that it was in the movie since the CIC and AGIS systems are linked together and would provide sufficient warning of anything threatening the battlegroup. Hope I answered your question sufficiently. Jim Skowronski ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume