Subject: SMML VOL 1963 Date: Mon, 07 Oct 2002 12:00:16 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: cerrobend 2: Re: Ballast and Cerrobend 3: Re: The Dangers of the Old References 4: Re: The Dangers of the Old References 5: Re: Dangers.... 6: Takasago 7: City Class Ironclads 8: Ballast 9: Re: The Dangers of the Old References 10: Re: The Dangers of the Old References 11: Re: San Francisco visit ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: cerrobend >> It is actually Cerrobend and it melts at about 70C. There are several brand names of this metal of which Cerrobend is but one. I don't know where to get Cerrobend either but a good start would be a professional plumbing supply house. The stuff is used by plumbers to be poured into copper pipes to prevent them buckling when they are bent. Then a quick lick with the blow torch and it all melts out again. I have poured it straight into a plastic model to weighjt it and the plastic has suffered no ill effects. << I believe that Micromark has it, perhaps also ModelExpo. I also periodically see it on Ebay. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bud Link" Subject: Re: Ballast and Cerrobend Cerrobend is one of several bismuth-based low-melting-temperature alloys. They're not cheap, or they weren't several years ago, anyway. Try model railroad sources like Walthers. Cerrobend is used there most often to weight brass locomotive boilers to improve tractive effort [pulling power]. Cerrobend is useful because all the soldered-on detail STAYS soldered-on. Re shot and Bondo: mix the shot with the gray goop BEFORE adding the catalyst. This gives you all the time you want to mix in lots of shot. If you're new to Bondo, measure out the components before mixing with shot to get the proportions right. But don't worry, Bondo is VERY forgiving as to mix ratios. Naturally, more catalyst means faster curing. Even with the catalyst at the low end of the range Bondo cures in a very reasonable amount of time. Bud ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Dave Pluth" Subject: Re: The Dangers of the Old References >> If the above statement were true, there would only be one book. No work is good enough to be definitive for all time. It may be definitive at the time of publication, but thereafter...........Who knows? << One book would be fine, if it was in fact definitive. I guess what I'm saying is that at the time a book is published, unless you can look at is as the definitive book for it's subject, why publish it? Sure new stuff may be uncovered down the line, but at the time of release, the author has gathered and added enough new material as well as confirming old material to make the book the best one available. Without doing this, it is a waste of paper in my opinion. It's inevitable that new material will come out (although I think we are running short on new material regarding WWII type stuff, at least stuff the is earth shaking) and possibly date what has been written, however it should be the basis for all other research. I point to Don Thorpe's book on Japanese Aircraft Camouflage and markings (Army & Navy). When Don wrote the book and for the next 20 years it was the definative work. It is also the basis for all other research on the topic. Both to prove and disprove it. Since the publication, we have made leaps in the area of Japanese Color research. However a large percentage of Don's original work is still the definitive work. His other work set the standard for new research in the area. You'll also note that there has been no additional attempt to write a similar book as Don's research set the bar very high to be replaced. Dave J-aircraft.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Dave Pluth" Subject: Re: The Dangers of the Old References >> That simply isn't true Dave. Thinking that any research can lead to a definitive word on a subject is a folly IMO. Would you kindly like to point to me the dated but definitive source which withstood the test of time untouched??? << There is none. But does that mean that authors shouldn't strive for that goal? In a earlier message I pointed at Don Thorpe's work on Japanese Aircraft Camo. That is the type of work that I point to. When it was written it was looked at as the definative reference (and in many areas today it still is) on the subject. People use that work as a basis point for their research, either to prove of disprove his theories. This is what I'm talking about. >> First- research will always have some sort of time limit imposed on it which is bound to act as a restictive factor. << Not true. If all facts are presented, there is a possibility that even time won't change what is printed. What I mean is that at the battle of Midway a number of carriers were sunk, and no matter how much time passes, the names of those carriers will never change. So, if you gather as many facts as possible on the subject, it would be possible that nothing will change even based on time passing. >> Second- there will bound to be new sources coming into public domain uncovered by accident or design in archives, libraries and private collections alike.<< I would give you that to a point. However, with 60+ years passing with regards to WWII, the likelihood of new groundbreaking information coming out grows slimmer and slimmer. I think what you see is more of a representation of facts with a different slant on them or a different presentation concept. You are also seeing more collections of information, both right and wrong. I will hold to my original statement. If you don't feel that what you are doing is the definative work on a subject, you shouldn't bother publishing it. Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "melee" Subject: Re: Dangers.... Nicely put, John R. and D.P. to add, even famous writers like Morison make errors.....one example is his using inaccurate OFFICIAL documents when writing on the collision between the Nachi and the Mogami. I have an interesting paper on this be well SMMLers Lee Shackelford ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Takasago Despite the best attempts by all of the contributors we are actually getting somewhere (kidding guys, just kidding). Mr.Kubota's and Falk's info is of the usual high quality and very welcomed. Now let's recapitulate: IJN colour scheme for the first class ships from June 1889 to some time in 1896 was white hull with mustard yellow upperworks with hull lines as stated in the previous posts. From 1896 a new scheme of overall very light gray was adopted (with hull stripes unchanged) which lasted until 1900 for battleships and armored cruisers and until 1903 for all other ships except destroyers. Now a question for Mr. Kubota: since at least two photos of Takasago c.1898 (World Warships in Review and "Japan, Her Strenght and Her Beauty") seems to show differend shade of the hull to that of the upperworks might it be possible that despite the official suspension of the old scheme it was still used for another couple of years or so???? Best wishes D.P ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: City Class Ironclads Okay, you ACW enthusiasts on the list, can any of you point me toward good model kits of the Civial War ironclad USS Louisville? I am aware of the existance of the Lone Star 1:192 scale kit - is it any good? I'd rather not go smaller that that. Other vessels of the class are Cairo, Carondelet, Louisville, Saint Louis, Pittsburg, Cincinati, Mound City. I understand that the onlu real difference among the members of the class was their paint job, so any help on that score would be greatly appreciated. Ken Goldman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Price, Richard" Subject: Ballast An idea I had for this a while back when motorising a Matchbox Flower was to use, ummm, ready-mix cement; put in some partitions in the bottom and just poured it in whilst the hull floated in the bath. I have no idea if this will eventually affect the plastic but it does have the advantage that with a little forethought and the strategic placement of some embedded handles, you can pull it out in the safe knowledge that it will go back in pretty much exactly where it came from as it naturally takes the shape of the cavity you pour it in; this was comforting as I always felt nervous about lifting a plastic model weighing that much. Worked recently on a Deans Marine USS Kidd as well (fibreglass this time). And that's probably where my DIY addiction started.....hmmmm. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SteveWiper Subject: Re: The Dangers of the Old References >> I would disagree completely with this statement. If your research isn't good enough to become the definative word on the subject and stand up to the test of time, it's not worth publishing. How many books do we see that come out with high expectations, but when we see them, they are simply the same regurgitated bunch of information that has been previously published. << Wrong and Right! There is no such thing as the "Last Word" on any subject. I have my own little curse in my series of books. Every time I print one, a month or less will go by and I will find a great photo I wish I had to put in that book. The first poster named DP is right in saying someone will always and eventually come up with new information at a later date. You are right in that some books are a big rehash. But then again, some of the photos I print in my books have been in print before, but only in large expensive books that only a small percentage of us will afford. How would you know when you have all the information? I have been to various archive facilities, searching through file after file and come up with zip or very little on a subject, only to find that someone else found something different somewhere else. I know there is always more on something, but can one find it? Nobody knows the answer to that! Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: SteveWiper Subject: Re: The Dangers of the Old References >> To DP: I think you missed the crux of Mr. Raven's comment. While it is true that only the most conceited of authors consider their work to be the definitive end-all, the point I believe Alan was making was that once you become an author, you become the TARGET for people deliberately trying to question your work, or any information that you tend to offer. I guess it's human nature to try to unseat the 'expert'. Trust me, I know. I still get hammered for errors in my book that were made by the printer neglecting to make the changes to the manuscript prior to it's printing. << Jeff, You are sooooooooo right! That is why I make all the changes to my books, so ultimately it is my fault and I will have only myself to blame. Steve Wiper ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SolidStump Subject: Re: San Francisco visit >> I'll be in San Francisco for the fleet parade weekend on 10-12 -02... Any suggestion of any other sites (ships) worth seeing? Sorry for my ingorance, is one of the USS Iowa class battleship there as a museum ship now?? Any info is much appreciated... << The S.F. Maritime Museum holds more ship models than you will be able to see and appreciate in one visit. I went there three times and still wanted to go back. The museum features a 1/48 scale Battleship California built by a man who helped build the real ship. There are pictures in the Steel Navy Gallery of this model. Simon Scheuer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume