Subject: SMML VOL 1971 Date: Fri, 11 Oct 2002 15:00:14 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Brass shim stock 2: Re: Yamato flight Deck grating 3: Re: Skywave/ Pit Road question 4: Bonnie Dick again 5: Re: Yamato flight Deck grating 6: Re: CONSTITUTION's masts 7: Re: Rigging of CONSTITUTION'S deck guns 8: Re: SW 1000 kit 9: Keith Butterly 10: Re: Shimakaze 11: open day in Sydney 12: magazine reviews 13: Skywave US WW2 equipment set contents 14: HMS Nottingham set for piggyback ride home 15: Re: Yamato flight Deck grating 16: Re: Mistaken identity alert 17: Soveit F-14s? 18: Hoo-Boy!!! 19: Re: CITY CLASS IRONCLADS 20: Bonhomme Richard 21: Yamato grating -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: drawings ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: DENMARAVON2 Subject: Brass shim stock Awhile back, someone was asking about a scource of brass shim stock. Try smallparts.com (tel 800-220-4242) - they have brass shim stock in thickneses from .031 down to .001 in fifteen thicknesses. I have found them to be a gold mine of all sorts of good stuff for modeling - like stainless steel and music wire as thin as .005 dia. and they have all sorts of brass. steel and aluminum sheet, rod and tube stock, hypodermic tubing, etc. They have an online catalog you can browse at their web site and they also have a printed catalog they will mail to you - FREE - Denis Campbell Avon MA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Bishop, Paul" Subject: Re: Yamato flight Deck grating You can get a better idea of what this area should look like here\ http://www.modelwarships.com/gallery/bb/ijn/yamato-200-pb/yamato-index.html Scroll down on my pics on the left and you will find more detail on the grating area. I used the reference books produced by Gakken (11 & 20) which have pics of a 1/100 scale model in Japan. Good Luck, Paul ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Timothy Dike Subject: Re: Skywave/ Pit Road question >> Can anyone tell me how many << Twin 5" 38s can be found in the Skywave E9 set. There are none in the new E6 set (#SW-1000). Quad 40 mm x 4 ea. Single 20 mm x 20 ea. There are reviews of the New E6 set (and the old E6) as well as the E9 set on ModelWarships.com in the reviews section. Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Ken Durling Subject: Bonnie Dick again Forgot to mention, for those interested, there is an excellent detailed account of the Flamborough Head battle in David Lyon's "Sea Battles in Close-Up: The Age of Nelson." (NIP, 1996) I'm sure most of you are familiar with the two volumes of this series covering WW2. There's some other interesting info in this article, such as BHR was 40 not 42 guns, and probably only one 18-pounder blew. Also, Serapis was not a true frigate as she is usually described, but a small two-decker of 44 guns. A fifth-rate ship. True frigates, of course, have all their main battery on one deck, above a tween deck, with chasers and possibly a couple of carronades on the quarter deck and forecastle. Lyon also lists the Bonhomme Richard as being of "900+ tons." Ken ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: VonsHobbyWorld Subject: Re: Yamato flight Deck grating Udo, It is hard with line drawings to depict portions of a ship which may be hollow, for instance, the grating. This area of the platform deck (boat traveling crane and braces underneath) are grated. In Mr. Skulskis book, pages 164-166, there are diagrams which show the grating. H14/1 shows the platform (starboard) with a see through section which shows the support braces & traveling crane. H14/4 show a cross section of the grating. If you are building the Tamiya 1/350 and using the Eduards PE set, line up the PE part in position and then mark and clear out the plastic beneath. Good luck and hope this helps. Regards, Dan von Gartzen Model Fleet ezOP http://pub34.ezboard.com/bmodelfleet ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: CONSTITUTION's masts To Ken Goldman, Darren Scannell, Fritz Koopman, and David(?), et al. My, how we take things for granted!! Not having made a model of U.S.S. CONSTITUTION, I am not really familiar with the details of the ship. I have been aboard countless times, and walk right past it to get to the U.S.S. Constitution Model Shipwright Guild's monthly meetings. I had read some rigging details in E.A.Magoun's 1927 book "The Frigate Constitution and Other Historic Ships", and picked up on the four mast bit and thought it might be a good trivia question. Comments from SMML caused me to ultimately make a trip to see for myself. Here is the latest skinny. I looked at the upper masts with a monocular, went aboard, asked questions etc. I then went to the Constitution Museum and looked at some models they have, and also examined many of the paintings on diplay. Next I visited the Guild's library and saw the line drawings on file. First; Fritz Koopman is correct, as currently rigged each principal mast indeed has three sections, not four. Therefore the corrected quantity of masts, assuming the individual sections as being "masts" is ten, not thirteen. In all the years I had looked at the masts, I never looked closely enough to detect that what I assumed to be doublings were really crosstrees halfway up the stick which carries both the topgallant (T'gallant) sail and the royal sail. Magoun listed each portion of this stick as separate pieces and gave them each a specific name. I don't know what would be the correct name for this one long mast piece. Magoun may have been right, for 1927, as the rigging has changed over the years. Two of the four models in the Museum have three-piece masts, and two have four piece masts. The paintings vary from 3 sails per complete mast, to five. The line drawings in the Guild's library show three-piece. As The Lone Ranger's Tonto used to say, "Quien sabbe?" Whereas most references indicate three piece mast assemblies, and since that is the current configuration, I bow to Fritz and stand corrected, four masts, or ten, depending how one chooses to define the term "mast". Second; I also looked at the base of the mizzen trysail (spanker) mast and it seems to be solidly stepped in a large block on the spar (main, to landlubbers) deck, From the gun deck the big mizzen mast can be seen extending through the spar deck and down to the gun deck, where it disappears, right on down to the keel. However, due to a bulkhead, I could not see if the smaller (15 1/2 inch diameter) mizzen trysail mast did so as well. I then telephoned the CDO (Command Duty Officer) who detailed a crewman to unlock the Captain's Quarters for me. I saw then that the mizzen trysail mast rested on a big thwartships spar deck beam, and did not extend downward below the spar deck. That having been said, let me remark that there is a wooden vertical column about six inches diameter in the Captain's Quarters, just under the mizzen trysail mast's base, apparently to shore up the deck beam which carries the weight of that mast. The line drawings in the Guild library confirm that the mizzen trysail mast is stepped on the spar deck, and not below. Hey, this beats that four-letter word "WORK"!!!!! Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Rigging of CONSTITUTION'S deck guns Some time ago someone from SMML asked me about the rigging of the cannons on the spar deck of U.S.S. CONSTITUTION. Whilst researching the details of the various masts, I took the time to make notes about the tackle used to train and secure these guns. However, I managed to lose the name of the inquirer. If he reads this and recalls the question, I will be glad to send sketches if he contacts me via e-mail, at mailto:fkbrown90@aol.com Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: SW 1000 kit >> Can anyone tell me how many: Twin 5" 38s << 6 pcs >> Quad 40 mm << 6 pcs >> Single 20 mm << 20 pcs On all of the above, there are two identical sprues with half the total number on each sprue. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: O'Connor Subject: Keith Butterly Keith, I'm sure I reflect the thoughts and sentiments of all the list members by saying that I send your daughter and your family the best of wishes, and hope that she has a full and speedy recovery from her illness. I find it interesting that the pamphlet would recommend such activities-I understand Alzheimer's prevention and treatment also recommends similar activities. I recommend that we as listmembers all commit to building a ship model in support of Keith's daughter, and posting the photos on the SMML website, so she and others in her situation know that we support them, and to encourage them to take the medical advice to heart- stay busy and keep the brain as active as possible to help recovery!! Bob O'Connor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Re: Shimakaze well having bult her myself, I did not use any photo-etched, though im pretty sure there are some that you can use, maybe ask Shane & Lorna @ SANDLE about the photo etched railings & ladders & stuff etc or maybe anyone of the number of shops online here could give youa run down on the exact products is available I guess you could re-place the masts with wire rods or something, my only improvements was putting dolls hair as rigging & and adding a few photo etched figures, it wasn't too bad, got a 3rd in one comp, 2nd at the APMA & but was slaughtered at another yet bigger comp (though not dissapointed) Andrew Jones OZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: open day in Sydney I was told, this weekend the Sydney maritime museum (the one that operates the James Craig amongst others) will have free open days for the public as they are celebrating their 100th anniversary, so if you can pull yourself away from the Bathurst races or the Japanese Animation festival this weekend & you are interested in old ships, might be worth a visit. the ships are located at Darling Harbour opposite the Aquarium, next to the Foxtel wharf Andrew Oz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: magazine reviews WWII History November 2002 issue contents: Insight: The Story of the end of the Yamato battleship Profiles: Hans Baur, Hitler's Pilot Ordnance: US Navy fighting knives Top Secret: America & The Holocaust: could more have been doen to save lives during the tragedy? Undaunted Defense of Midway: Another article about the battle of Midway To Casablance by Air : Story about Roosevelt's flight to meet Churchill aboard a Boeing 314 Dixie Clipper Storming Riva Ridge: The 10th Muntain div battle to distinguish themselves during the Italian campaign Destiny Enwtined: Story about the US Sub's The Squalus (sailfish) & Sculpin, & their history during the sinking of Squalus & the battles during the war they faced together The salvage operations after the attack on Pearl Harbour World war II Commands: The 201st Fighter Squadron, Mexican Expeditonary Air force WW2 today: Plans to grow Mussels off the beach at Omaha, USS north Carolina battleship association reunion (sorry it was oct 4- 7)email knappga@webtv.net for details - veterans of USS Callaway will meet in Charleston SC Oct 7 - 11 - veterans of USS Samuel N Moore will meet in Pensalcola Fla Oct 23 - 27 - Nov 10 Latino advocates for eduaction and santa san colege wil hold a tribute to Mexican american veterans of WW2 at Santa Ana college One man's war: George Pirnik: 8th airforce 527th B.S 379 B.G Armament: the Brannock double unit foot measuring machine..yep a foot measuring machine not a tank or a gun or a knife Undercover: Greatest Coup of the US Coast Guards Greenland Patrol.. story about the USCGC Eastwind capture of the german weather ship Externsteine Personalaity: Teresio Martinoli: Italy's leading ace Chesty Pullers Epic Stand on Guadalcanal The triumph of operation Torch On campaign with the Bengal Lancers Thunderbolt strike on the Road to Montelimar. How 3 P-47's wreaked havoc on a retreating German armourd column in southern France Perspectives: The search for Stalin's missing silver on the USS John Barry Another fine 2 magazines released about WW2, well worth it for you WW2 fans out there, check out your nearest newsagents to view them (or for the APMA members, will bring them to the meeting tomorrow, for viewing & reading) Andrew Jones OZ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Gernot Hassenpflug Subject: Skywave US WW2 equipment set contents David Sepos asked in SMML 1970 abotu contents of this set: There are two sprues included, each of which has - 4 single 5" mounts (correct for Benson/Livermore class) - 2 single 5" gunmounts with open top - 2 single 5" open mounts with shorter barrels - what looks like 2 single 3" open mounts - 2 quad 40mm mounts w/ shields separate - 2 twin 40mm mounts w/ shields separate - 2 quad 1.1" mounts - what looks like 2 twin 1.1" mounts (never knew they existed) - 10 single 20mm guns w/ shields separate - 2 quintuple torpedo tubes (Benson/Livermore class) - 4 open boats (for DDs), 4 rectangular and 8 circular life rafts - 2 depth charge rails - assorted radars - davits, searchlights, anchors, directors and other small parts No twin 5" mounts! Regards, Gernot ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: HMS Nottingham set for piggyback ride home Yes you remember the Nottingham right??? well it seems she is getting ready to head home, according to a Reuters print out.. The British warship crippled when it rocks off Australia in July will finally be carried home from Australia in the next couple of weeks. The Nottingham will arrive in Sydney on Tuesday after being towed stern first from Newcastle & then would be raised on to a heavy lift ship for Britain. The RN has contracted heavy lift specialists DOCKWISE to take the ship back to Britain on the Swan, a semi-submersible vessel capable of carrying up to 25,000 tonnes Navy officials say inspections of the hull while the ship was in Newcastle had proved surprisingly optimistic, increasing the likelihood of the type 42 air defence destroyer being repaired rather than being scrapped or set up to be used as target practice ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "chisum1012" Subject: Re: Yamato flight Deck grating >> Mr. Skulskis book shows nothing about it. Now I donīt know, if I should put the PE Parts onto the plastic or whether I should cut it out and glue the PE Parts instead of the plastic << Please refer to p.166 of mentioned book (Skulski-Yamato), figure H14/4. This I believe is the area of interest. R. Chisum ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Mistaken identity alert To Mark Leonard It was late at night when I read your entry for the number of masts on CONSTITUTION and did indeed mis-interpret your signature as Mike Leonard. Thank you for putting the matter straight. I shall be more careful in the future. We do share some attributes, however. First; I agree with you 100% about Mike's modeling abilities. Second; it is good to see that I have company in the lack of skills department, except I go you one better, I manage to glue my fingers together as well as to the model. Third; we both seem to have a weird sense of humor. Mine got me in trouble with Steve Wiper a couple of months ago, I do regret that. I did step over the line, and tried to apologize to him. I hope it took. Now, what is your entry in the quantity of sails question? Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "Pwesty1" Subject: Soveit F-14s? Hi List Does anybody know if there are any good web site and/or picture on the subject of the two or more F-14 that were captured and/or defected to the USSR in the early 80's I believe? Thanks "It appears that the the only sinkable ships are the ones still afloat." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Fkbrown Subject: Hoo-Boy!!! This is a true story. When I was aboard CONSTITUTION researching the masts information, there were several groups of High Schooler on field trips "doing" Old Ironsides. They were all well behaved, etc., good kids. One kid asked if the ship still sailed, good question. The Regular Navy Tour Guide responded by citing the four or five times a year the vessel makes the "turn-around cruise", in which it is pulled out into Boston Harbor by a tug, exchanging salutes with Fort Independence, and returned to the dock. When tied up, however, it is done so with the dock on the other side, to help compensate for the effects of the sun on the wood hull and masts. Not really sailing, but almost. The Guide stated that the Fourth of July was one of the scheduled turn-around days. He then asked the kids what the Fourth of July was that made it so important. One of the kids seriously volunteered that Columbo discovered the United States on that date!!!!!! I do admire the way the Tour Guide kept his cool. I guess they are well trained as to how to handle situations like that. Franklyn P.S. For SMML people who are from other lands and probably not fully familiar with U.S. History, the Fourth of July was the day in 1776 when the British colonies in North America signed The Declaration of Independence from England, and its anniversary is celebrated annually in the U.S. The high schooler confused it with Columbus Day, on which Americans celebrate the discovery of the land mass, subsequently known as the Americas (South, Central, and North America) by the Genoan known as Christopher Columbus, in 1492. Both dates are national holidays in the U.S. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "Ken Goldman" Subject: Re: CITY CLASS IRONCLADS Alas, although I did receive information about the Lone Star model, which it turns out is no longer in production, no one had any insight on the painting differences. Ken Goldman ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 20) From: Wilgossett Subject: Bonhomme Richard Hi all: Dr. Jang is correct about the book published by Ancre, in fact the book was written by French author Jean Boudriot (who started the Ancre company) and translated into English by David Roberts. It is a fantastic book full of highly detailed drawings of the ship based on meticulous research done by Mr. Boudriot and gives a complete history of the ship and the battle. The ship was indeed the East Indiaman "Duc de Duras", built in 1765 and converted to the Bonhomme Richard in 1779. Boudriot gives the dimensions as 145' 0" (length from stem to stern post), 126' 0" (length on the keel) and 36' 8" (breath). He gives very detailed information on where he found the data and exactly how it was interpreted. If the original information was not clear, he explains why he drew certain conclusions. The book also contains color paintings, drawings of crew, uniforms, small arms, flags, etc., and photos of a model. Also, according to Boudriot, in 1980 he located the remains of the ship in 200' of water in the North Sea and many artifacts still remain on the sea bed. If you need more information, please contact me off site. Regards, Will Gossett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 21) From: Wilgossett Subject: Yamato grating Hi, again: If you are speaking of the grates on either side of the aircraft deck, Skulski does indeed show the gratings in his book, specifically plates H 14/1 and H 14/4. He calls the deck extensions containing the gratings a "platform deck above traveling crane." H 14/4 shows a detail through the grating itself, with dimensions. Regards, Will Gossett ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "George Peat" Subject: drawings I have been cleaning out a cupboard,[closet for our US brothers] and have come across a complete set of drawings with instructions for the Corel HMS Victory to a scale of 1/84 as she was in 1805. Any one interested contact me off group. You pay postage. Regards to all SMML's George Peat BEM Secretary TF72/UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume