Subject: SMML VOL 1980 Date: Wed, 16 Oct 2002 13:54:48 +1000 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Mikasa 2: Airfix Naval Destroyers of WWII Set 3: 28 gun corvette 4: USN submarine S-class 1918 5: French submarine 600/630 tonnes class 6: Re: MIKASA 7: Re: City class Ironclad colors 8: Carrier groups to Arabia 9: Re: Bali 10: Re: HMAS Hobart 11: Re: Columbus 12: Re: You never stop learing! 13: Re: Oldest commissioned warship 14: Re: Battleship Mikasa 15: Mikasa 16: Re: City Class Ironclads 17: Re: Jules Verns Sub 18: CITY CLASS IRONCLADS -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: 1:700 Cancelled IJN 1921 Project 'NO.13-16' BB Kits 2: Warship Books order problems 3: Prinz Eugen and Myoko set sail Thursday ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: CA139JOHNF Subject: Re: Mikasa I just recently read that after the end of WW2, as part of the de-militarzation of Japan, the Mikasa was filled with cement up to her main deck. I assume the engineering space are intact, but,..... John Frohock ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Terry Wiltshire Subject: Airfix Naval Destroyers of WWII Set Hi Team The Airfix HMS Cossack dates from 1959 and was the first modern ship kit they produced. It was preceded only by those funny little sailing ships! When you think that it was one of the first plastic ships kits produced in the UK and indeed the world it stands up pretty well. The Campbeltown was from 1961, the Hotspur from 1964 and the Narvik is a youngster of the group from 1975. For a measly 10 quid for the four it's a bargain. Can I suggest a cure for AMS (accurate modeller syndrome). We should all go out and buy this set, sit in our kitchen's with a tube of glue and a few tins of grey paint and build them straight from the box. It will make you feel better after all this photoetch and what's the correct colour business and will put money into the Airfix coffers and encourage them to re-release some more of their lovely old ship kits (how about Manxman and Repulse for a start). But whatever you do don't tell Mr Snyder that you only used "grey" paint for your Cossack and not 507c! Terry Budapest ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: 28 gun corvette http://picpage7.tripod.com/NEW-NEW/korvette.jpg Is anybody able to identify this ship? It is said to be a 28-gun corvette, the drawing was made in 1871, screws are used since 1845... Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://www.geocities.com/friedkappes/flagship.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: USN submarine S-class 1918 http://picpage7.tripod.com/NEW-NEW/ss105class.jpg Which group of the US submarine S-class of 1918-1921 is this? Electric Boat type, S-1 (SS-105) - S-41 (SS-146) Navy Yard type, S-3 (SS-107) - S-17 (SS-122) 1st lake type, S-2 (SS-106) 2nd Lake type, S-48 (SS-153) - S-51 (SS-162) (rather not, compared to drawing in Conway´s) S-42 (SS-147) - S-47 (SS-152) Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://www.geocities.com/friedkappes/flagship.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Friedrich Kappes Subject: French submarine 600/630 tonnes class http://picpage7.tripod.com/NEW-NEW/600tonnes.jpg Which submarine is this? It is either a 600 tonnes class or 630 tonnes class. French submarine 1930s. 600 tonnes class: type A: Sirene, Naiade, Galathee type B: Ariane, Eurydice, Danae type C: Calypso, Circe, Thetis, Doris (have a photo, looks different) 630 tonnes class: type D: Argonaute, Arethuse, Atalante, Vestale, Sultane type E: Orion, Ondine type F: Diane, Meduse, Amphitrite, Orphee, Psyche, Sibylle Friedrich The FriedrichFiles http://www.geocities.com/friedkappes/flagship.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Mitsuaki Kubota Subject: Re: MIKASA Hi Michael, Mikasa and all of other IJN Pre-Dreadnoughts participated in Russo-Japanese War were built under British design. I think most distinctive difference between Japanese and British Pre-Dreadnoughts are secondary armament. From Shikishima to Mikasa, four of IJN Pre-Dreadnoughts carried two more extra 6" guns in sacrifice of coal stowage comparing with British contemporaries. IJN didn't estimate dispatching their battleships to large sea area not like British. So IJN emphasized secondary armaments instead of endurance. The machinery of Mikasa, as far as I know, were removed when she became memorial ship. Although it was determined to preserve her as memorial, her hull (especially bow area) was damaged by earthquake shock, and she beached to prevent sinking. She was then towed to her present location and settled by filling her hold with ballast and pouring concrete around her. Most of her internal spaces are now converted for museum use, so sadly there are only a few traces of her original structure. (For example, her trunk was removed to use main deck midship areas for exhibition.) Also visitors can't inspect beneath middle deck. But I belieave Mikasa is still significant maritime memorial although she doesn't remain her original constructive form. Best regards, Mitsuaki Kubota http://members.jcom.home.ne.jp/hmdock/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Devin J. Poore" Subject: Re: City class Ironclad colors Sorry about the delay in getting this info out. Many things of man and nature have been conspiring to steal my free time as of late. According to the plans I have, from Taubman Plans Service International, the ships were differentiated by colored bands on both stacks, just above where the cross support ran between the two stacks. On the plans I have which are 1/8" = 1', the top of the bands on the sheets start 1/4" below the top of the stack, and are just under 3/8" in thickness. Colors are listed as follows: USS Cairo: Grey USS Carondelet: Red USS Cincinnati: Blue USS Louisville: Green USS Mound City: Orange USS Pittsburg: Light Brown USS St. Louis/Baron De Kalb: Yellow The plans also have tables that list the other differences between all of the ships, such as guns mounted, sizes, and locations, mast height, ladder locations, etc. I highly recommend the plans, very well drawn and thorough. I hope to use them in the next year or two and undertake my first full scratch build, probably of USS Carondelet (who was the most famous of the class until they dug up Cairo). Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: John Kutina Subject: Carrier groups to Arabia http://www.military.com/NewsContent?file=FL_forces_101502 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Daniel Bauer" Subject: Re: Bali To All Who are in Grief: We here in the US share your pain and sorrow about this terrible and senseless act. Our Prayers go out to you are Friends in the Down Under. God Bless You All. We are here for You. Dan Bauer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: RDChesneau Subject: Re: HMAS Hobart >> Does anyone have dates for when HMAS Hobart served in the Red Sea during WW2? << Chris The relevant entries from Rohwer and Hummelchen's "Chronology" (Greenhill Books) are: 4-19 Aug Red Sea/Gulf of Aden Italian occupation of British Somaliland. On 5 Aug Italian troops occupy Zeila and Hargeisa and on 6 Aug Oodweina. On 11 Aug the attack on the main British position near Tug Argan begins. Between 14 and 19 Aug Berbera is evacuated by British troops: 5690 troops, 1266 civilians and 184 sick are taken to Aden with the assistance of the Australian cruiser Hobart, the British cruisers Caledon, Carlisle and Ceres, the destroyers Kandahar and Kimberley, the sloops Shoreham, Parramatta (RAN) and Auckland, the auxiliary cruisers Chakdina, Chantala and Laomédon and the transports Akbar and Vita (hospital ship). The cruisers and destroyers bombard various positions along the coast with shellfire. 13-19 Aug Red Sea The British destroyer Kimberley and the sloop Auckland bombard Italian troops advancing W of Berbera. During Italian air raids on Berbera, the Australian cruiser Hobart is slightly damaged by splinters. The Italian submarine Ferraris (Cdr Piomarta) tries unsuccessfully to attack the British battleship Royal Sovereign, which is passing through the Red Sea. This might help. Roger www.rogerchesneau.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Columbus >> On the News program of a major Boston TV station a long-time "reporter" (i.e. "cue card reader") referred to October 14 (actually the 12th, but celebrated on the nearest Monday) as the day we honor a founder of our country!!!!!!!!!!!!! << Well, when I was in grade school (Well before the days of political correctness!!) I was taught that Columbus discovered America. To the extent that found is synonymous with discovered, I suppose in a mangled sense, Columbus is the "founder" of our country :-) >> I wish I could get as much money as these Talking Heads do for making such (dare I say it ?) ignorant observations. Alas. << Naw you're probably to honest not to feel guilty taking the money :-) Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: You never stop learing! Do you imply that you are continuously performing a Shakespeare play?? Sorry I just couldn't resist. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Fkbrown90 Subject: Re: Oldest commissioned warship I recently saw a newspaper article claiming that U.S.S. CONSTITUTION is the world's oldest commissioned warship AFLOAT. I know that Nelson's flagship is indeed older and still commissioned, but is it still afloat? I would appreciate hearing from our British colleagues about this. Franklyn ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Battleship Mikasa Michael, All Japanese battleships up to Satsuma were British build, and even Satsuma included large procent of materials imported from England. All of the British build battleships were purely of the British design. Japanese wisely decided that, at that time, ships designed and build by the most experienced yards in the world would be superior to their own designs. While Mikasa is the last pre-dreadnought in existence it is worth remembering that it isn't exactly what it appears to be. The way she looks today is not how she appeared during the Tsushima battle but how she looked after the reconstruction following the 1905 internal explosion and sinking. Her main guns and turrets were scrapped after the WWII and what you see now are just mockups of the real things. As to machinery, I haven't seen it mentioned anywhere so I don't know if it still exist but I also wonder if it would be the original machinery anyway. Once again I have no documentary support but I suspect that at least boilers might have been changed during the 1905 reconstruction too. Best wishes D.P ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Chris and Kayo Amano-Langtree" Subject: Mikasa Hi Michael Mikasa was designed and built by Vickers for the IJN. Her boilers were triple expansion Belville types. I visited her in July but can't for the life of me remember seeing her boiler rooms. Chris Amano-Langtree ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: "George J. Stein" Subject: Re: City Class Ironclads From the Thoroughbred Figures instruction sheet for 1/600 scale City-class Union River Ironclad: colored bands around stacks -- Cairo-gray; Carondelet-red; Cincinnati-blue; Louisville-green; Mound city-orange; Pittsburgh-brown; and St. Louis-yellow. New also the latest Osprey release: Angus Konstam, "Union River Ironclad 1861-65" (Osprey, ISBN 1-84176-444-2) for detailed measurements. George Stein, Alabama ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: Alan Cameron Subject: Re: Jules Verns Sub >> Can any body tell me whear I can get a set of plans of the SUB that was use in the movie 20000 legs under the sea THE one that looks like a fish with the two eye balls yes that strange looking one, Not the reg sub that had been use. << Hi Don, Look inside cover page of the latest (received in Australia today) October 2002 Vol 35 No 10 of the "Sea Classics" magazine, the Sea Classics Plans Service lists a 36" plan plus a picture as you describe above. You can USA phone order on (818) 700 - 6868 ext 116 or fax (818) 700 - 6282 Cheers. Alan Cameron ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Dafuelmann Subject: CITY CLASS IRONCLADS Ken, I looked in Canney's "The Old Steam Navy", and he lists the funnel stripes (one for each Funnel) as: CAIRO gray CARONDELET red CINCINNATI blue LOUISVILLE green PITTSBURG light brown ST. LOUIS yellow MOUND CITY orange stripe or possibly 5 pointed star The photo of LOUISVILLE shows a stripe width of about 2 1/2 feet, lower edge of stripe about 6 feet from funnel top. There is a man standing near the funnel, and the above is a guess assuming he's 6 feet tall. Hope this helps, David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mike Bartel at IHP Subject: 1:700 Cancelled IJN 1921 Project 'NO.13-16' BB Kits Hi all, These reissue kits are expected in 4-6 weeks. The anticipated MSRP is currently $115 (but I am hoping to be able to bring this down a bit when the kits actually arrive). These all-resin kits are BIG- the hull measures 16" inches in length, and is the largest 1:700 scale battle ship kit currently available. The reissue of this kit will feature some improvements and more parts over the original kit we produced from 1995-1999, but it is still a craftsman kit. This will be a limited production kit, and only a certain number will be produced this year. More info on the kit can be found on the IHP website. If you are interested in obtaining these kits, please do so through your dealer. DEALERS: If you are interested in stocking these and other current/future IHP products, please feel free to contact Mike Bartel at: (610) 352-0982 or email IHP by going through the Website at: http://ihphobby.tripod.com and going through the Contact information. Eventually, we'd like to make almost all our sales through a dealer network. IHP is trying to build a dealer network for our kits with the idea of eventually phasing out direct-to-public sales. This is the first kit which we would like to sell entirely through dealers, if possible. Dealer Terms and a current Price List are available upon request. We've revised our Dealer Terms to fit large- and small-volume dealers. Thanks, Mike Bartel IHP http://ihphobby.tripod.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Warship Books order problems Hi all, I have re-routed my orders to me directly, as I have been experiencing problems at the website since my re-start. The problem has been resolved and rest assured I shall be getting to your orders and emails as soon as possible Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Keith Butterley Subject: Prinz Eugen and Myoko set sail Thursday Hi all, I have just gotten word from Steve Wiper, that the two new books from Classic Warships will be shipped this week. You still have time to place your orders. New books now available in the Maritme section. AOTS Warspite Canada $63Cdn USA & Intl $39US HMS Glory 1945-1961 Canada $46Cdn USA & Intl $28.75US The Royal Navy in Focus in WWII Part II Canada $23Cdn USA & Intl$14.50US Remember: even though a book may not be listed on the site, doesn't mean I can't or won't get it for you, just ask! Regards Keith Butterley http://www.warshipbooks.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume