Subject: SMML VOL 1989 Date: Tue, 29 Oct 2002 14:30:01 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Testors Marine Colors 2: HMS Nottingham on her way home 3: Re: flight of fantasy 4: Re: Making photoetch 5: Nelson's Nile heroes unearthed 6: Trumpeter 1/350 kits 7: Re: Colour Interpretation B+W Photos 8: Aircraft colours 9: HMS Nottingham 10: US Navy/Army wants 2 more Incats 11: Re: Making Photo-Etch 12: Lost x 1 British Tank. if seen please call the Army 13: Absolute colour identification 14: HMS Inflexible 15: HMS Inflexible 16: Re: Colourcoats and Old Photographs 17: Re: Fantasy 18: Re: USS CONSTITUTION sails ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Re: Buffalo SMMLCon 2003 2: Re: Buffalo SMMLCon 2003 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Wants ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Testors Marine Colors James wrote (in SMML 1987) to report that the new Testors Marine Acrylic colors have been received at his shop. The list of colors is on the Testors site, in their PDF format catalog (page 44 of 56). See http://www.testors.com/Default.asp Click the CATALOG icon & search the PDF file for "acrylic" For those of you who may be electronically challenged, here is a list I previously cut from a previous response to a question on Hyperscale. Classic Marine Colors 4201 Bulwark White 4202 Thayer Blue 4203 Gunnel Yellow 4204 Deck Umber 4205 Bulkhead Gray 4206 Midship Blue 4207 Caprail Green 4208 Bulwark Red 4209 Hull Cream 4210 Verdigris 4211 Tallow Coating 4212 Tar 4213 Salmon Buff 4214 Yellow Ochre 4215 Orange Ochre 4216 Iron 4217 Copper 4218 Navy Blue AN502 4219 Maritime Blue AN501 4220 Navy Dk Grey AN513 4221 Panama Buff AN507 4222 Navy Red #40 4223 Navy White AN511 4224 CG Red AN509 4225 CG Orange AN508 4226 Sea Blue AN623 4227 Black Boottop AN514 4228 Anti-fouling Red 4229 Deck Green AN503 4230 Deck Tan 4231 Navy Brown AN510 4232 Navy Buff #22 WWII Camoflague Colors U.S. Navy 4233 #5 Standard Navy Grey (1937) 4234 #20/250N Flight Deck Grey 4235 Mahogany Flight Deck (1937) 4236 #5-L Light Grey (early 1941) 4237 #5-D #5-D Dark Grey (early 1941) 4238 #5-H Haze Grey (Late 1941) 4239 #5-O Ocean Grey (Late 1941) 4240 #5-S Sea Blue (Late 1941) 4241 #5-N Navy Blue (Late 1941) 4242 Flight Deck Stain 21 (Late 1941) 4243 Deck Blue 20B (1942) 4244 #5-P Pale Grey (1943) 4245 #5-L Light Grey (1943) 4246 #1 Green (1944) 4247 #2 Green (1944) 4248 #3 Green (1944) 4249 #4 Brown (1944) Imperial Japanese Navy 4250 Sasebo Naval Arsenal 4251 Kure Naval Arsenal 4252 Maizuru Naval Arsenal 4253 Yokosuka Naval Arsenal 4254 Aircraft Carrier Type 1 4255 Aircraft Carrier Type 2 4256 Aircraft Carrier Type 21 Deutsche Kriegsmarine 4257 Hellgrau 50 (RAL7001) pre-war 4258 Dunkelgrau 51 (RAL7000) pre-war 4259 Dunkblaugrau (Norway) 4260 Mittelblaugrau (Norway) 4261 Hellblaygrau (Norway) 4262 Schnellbootweiss 4263 Schiffsbodenfarb III (RAL 8013) 4264 Dunkelgrau 2 (RAL7024) So James, Is this list complete? Are there more or less than listed here? Now to find out when my local hobby shop expects to receive their rack-o-paint. Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Michael Kear" Subject: HMS Nottingham on her way home Fellow SMMLies might be interested in some pictures I took this week of HMS Nottingham being loaded up onto the Dutch heavy lift ship Swan. I have 3 of my pictures and some taken by Peter Formby. The lift took most of the day. At around 6am, the Swan was fully ballasted, lowering her main deck 30 feet or so into the water. Nottingham was manoeuvred over the deck - a delicate operation because there is only a metre's clearance - and then Swan started pumping out the ballast again. By 5pm the lift ship was back to her waterline again, and for the first time the damage to Nottingham's bow could be seen. A big hole in the bow and gashes for a long distance along the side. Then Swan went alongside at Garden Island shipyard, so the destroyer could be made stable for the 6 week voyage (stern first - how humiliating) back to Pompey and a sure ribbing for the crew. You can see the pictures in my photo gallery at http://www.modelwarship.com/gallery11/ Cheers, Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia www.modelwarship.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "David T. Okamura" Subject: Re: flight of fantasy Andrew Jones wrote: >> Well one kit you could try, that I might even think about doing is earlier this year & I tried to that Glow in the dark Revell Pirate Ship...., << That's a kit with a history. The glow in the dark Revell (Germany) Pirate Ship was original issued in the late 1960s as a 1:72 scale replica of "Captain Hook's Pirate Ship", one of the original Fantasyland attractions in Disneyland. The Jolly Roger was also used as a theme restaurant (sponsored by Chicken of the Sea, so tuna salad sandwiches were the specialty) until it was demolished in 1982. I don't think Revell ever got permission from Disney to reissue the kit as the Fantasyland vessel, thus the model's new identity as a ghost ship. (The base still reads "Jolly Roger", though.) See http://www.yesterland.com/pirateship.html for details. A replica now sits in Disneyland Paris. I once painted up this model in the original paint scheme for a friend who missed that old boat after the "new" Fantasyland opened. Sadly, she passed away a couple years later, but she really enjoyed that model. Granted, it's a very old kit so there's some fit problems, but if you're an old Disneyland fan you have to build it in its original glory. David T. Okamura "Second star on the right and straight on till morning..." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Making photoetch Rolie posted in SMML1987 >> Any one have experience in making their own PE? Any tips suggestions, dos or don'ts, what have you. << Ralph responded in SMML1988 with some information about Press-n-Peel >> I used "Press-n-Peel" which uses a clothes iron, Ferric Acid, brass sheet, and drawing (either computer generated or hand drawn). >>SNIP<< It will not work for really fine PE like railings... At least not for me yet. << I have tried the Press-n-Peel stuff, and I too have not had success in getting fine lines. What edges I do get are rough and very jagged. I have not been very satisfied. Perhaps I'll experiment some more this winter. I have had a measure of success using rub-on transfers. Radio Shack sells rub on transfers for designing circuit boards. These include circles, triangles, lines, and other shapes. I clean both sides of a piece of brass of desired thickness. I then coat one side of the brass with a paint that will act as a resist. This keeps the piece from etching through from that side. When the paint is dry, I rub on the transfers onto the brass side. I have used circles for gun bases and the rectangular ones for hatches. The triangles make gussets between parts. I have used rub-on letters and numbers to make name plates for bases. Let your imagination guide you. Burnish the transfers down well. I then put the piece of brass in the Ferric Chloride solution. It is also available from Radio Shack. Use a glass bowl to hold the solution. Do not use aluminum tools - since FeCl reacts stongly with Aluminim. Heck, do not even use chrome plated tools - the stuff will eat that too. (Necessary disclaimer - use eye protection, and clothes protection. This stuff eats metal - it will eat skin and ruin clothes.) Check on the progress of the etching regularly. It may take several hours based on the temperature and the thickness of the brass. When completed, rinse the pieces in water to wash off any remaining FeCl. The paint on the back can be removed using whatever paint remover is appropriate and handy. The parts are ready for use. I attended a seminar at this years IPMS/USA Nats presented by David Merriman on chemical milling/photoetching. He went into the process of preparing front and back drawings of parts, getting them prepared as photo transparencies (either positive or negative depending on the nature of the chemicals you are using), preparing the brass with a photo sensitive emulsion, exposing the piece and developing it. He had a neat little plexiglass etching tank made with an aquarium heater and air source for agitation. I wish there was a site that had the transcript of his presentation, along with the visual aids. It was too much to remember. Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: (John Kutina) Subject: Nelson's Nile heroes unearthed http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/story/0,11711,820717,00.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: u.brow Subject: Trumpeter 1/350 kits Hi Folks, can anyone tell me where to order those 1/ 350 Trumpeter Kits (CV-8 etc..) online? My "local dealer" ist rather helpless in ordering those goods for me. Now ėll try on my own.... Thanks in advance for suggestions and help... Udo Browarczik ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: David Sepos Subject: Re: Colour Interpretation B+W Photos I don't know if I'm getting in on the end of something here but...... my 2 cents. There were 2 different kinds of B&W film years ago: orthochromatic and panchromatic. Each responds to color differently. Without a lesson on photographic film, there are ways to sluth which type of film was used by noting objects in the picture that are of a known color. There is an interesting interpretation of the B-24 nose art on "Million Dollar Baby" in Big Bombers of WWII. B&W photos existed in ortho & pan and an interpretation was made using the two. When a color photo later surfaced, the interpretation proved correct. It was all based on an access door on the nose of the A/C that was know to be painted red on all B-24s! That's how they knew which type of B&W film they were looking at, and then could predict how each reacted (in tone) to the other colors present. Regards, Dave ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Clifford Franklin Subject: Aircraft colours The question regarding what colours the P40s transported to North Africa around Operation Torch were painted in has been answered before, in SMML vols 505, 506 and 507. There were three shipments. In the first two, before Op. Torch, the P40s were initially painted in the standard US Army scheme of Olive Drab with Neutral Gray undersurfaces. They were repainted en route in US Sand. The final shipment, in January 1943, had the aircraft painted in a mix of schemes. Some were in Dark Earth and Middlestone, others were in Olive Drab and Middlestone. Check the SMML archives for full details. cheers Cliff Franklin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: HMS Nottingham Well the Nottingham left (or snuck out of) Sydney last night in the dead of the night, should reach England sometime in December ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: US Navy/Army wants 2 more Incats The US Navy & Army have announced they want 2 more of the Incat catamarans for further trials, which is good for the Tasmanian ship builder as it keeps them out of financial troubles, so lets hope that a ship builder from OZ can break into the US military contracts Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: SteveWiper Subject: Re: Making Photo-Etch >> Any one have experience in making their own PE? Any tips suggestions, dos or don'ts,what have you. << Rolie, I would very strongly suggest not doing your own "At home etching", as the by product of this chemical milling process is a heavy metal, which is very toxic, like mercury. If you have art or drafting programs for your computer, then you can create your own negatives and have a professional outfit do the etching. Steve @ www.classicwarships.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Lost x 1 British Tank. if seen please call the Army Though not quite a ship story, it is still good to share The British Army appealed on Monday for anyone hiding one of its borrowed tanks which blew away in a gale on the weekend or if anyone has seen a flying tank, could they also report it The inflatable tank was borrowed from the RAF for exercises being carried out was carried away in the strong gales over the weekend.."it just took off & hasn't been seen since" said an Army spokesman so for anyone in Wales who might have been drowning a few beers or other drinks & happened to see a flying tank...it probably was not the booze!, lol ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "John Rule" Subject: Absolute colour identification The way of the future? Or maybe it's already here. Take a black and white photograph. Using the highest resolution scanner, try to identify a crew member, such as via a tattoo. This can be made easier if you already know the name of a crew member. Got to the public record office to find out where he is buried. Get an exhumation order and have his remains dug up. The next bit gets easier. Take a few cells from the back of his eye and some DNA. Send the items to the CIA, who will then be able to construct digitally a replica of the individuals memory in full colour. Scanning the memory you look for images of ships which were indelibly stored there. Take a colour chart such as S & S and match the colours exactly. Voila!!!!! Sincerely (yeah right!!!) John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "John Rule" Subject: HMS Inflexible Darius has raised an interesting hypothesis relating to the photo of Inflexible I noted in SMML 1986, suggesting that the reason that there is an intermediate tone between black and white on the superstructure may be because the photo was taken during repainting. This is a valid comment as a canvas tent is visible at the forward end of the fo'csle structure, which may be sheltering the painters. It would have made an interesting model with the liquorice allsort look. Mind you it also could be painted thus with the crew in the midst of the painting job. Sounds like a new project for Jim Baumann. Sincerely, John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Summers David H Col 10 MDG/SGOMA Subject: HMS Inflexible Regarding the photo of the HMS Inflexible, are you sure that's paint? When I look at the picture, there are obviously (canvas?) awnings draped over the stern. The awnings on the stern seem to have similar tonal values to the gray stripe running the length of the hull. The gray stripe running the length of the hull seems to have irregularities (folds and shadows) in the surface, like a canvas awning, rather than a smooth steel surface--look particularly at the ripples in the section below the ventilation funnels. David Summers ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Colourcoats and Old Photographs >> With modern technology anything is possible - but usually B & W are hard to interpret because because a B & W film will see red as dark or black and blue as white or nothing. So brown having some red in it would appear darker - green having some blue in it would appear somewhat lighter so maybe that is how they do it - who knows but something to think about when dealing with B&W photos. << Well, close but no cigar--or maybe half a cigar. How black & white film sees color depends on what type of emulsion we're talking about. Mike is correct as far as blue-sensitive or orthochromatic emulsions go, but wrong if we're talking about panchromatic films. Trouble is, there's a good deal of chronological overlap in the use of orthochromatic and panchromatic. Panchromatic films came into use in the mid-1930s, and orthochromatic films remained in use through most of the 1950s. So you really need to know how to look for indicators in trying to judge which type was used (assuming that is unknown). Then, throw in the use of filters--which photographers knew about and used in the 19th century--and the waters get muddy pretty quickly. It's now always easy--and I've been at it since studying this subject in college in the mid-'70s (that's 1970s, you jokers!). >> Do you suppose that if both you and I would lobby John and Caroline, those great greens that we both want could be put on a higher priority? << Besides priority, it's a matter of how much we can throw at Barry at one time--trying to develop new colors AND keep the existing ones in stock. But we really are trying, folks. Tell you what: I have to call Barry tomorrow, and I'll push the USN greens up ahead of the Regia Marina colors. OK? Best, John Snyder The Token Yank and WEM Dogsbody White Ensign Models Home Page for WEM, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Fantasy I am familiar with "Space 1889" RPG and the module called "Cloud Captains of Mars" and what a terrific game it is. Being an entusiast of ships of Victorian era I have found it great fun to let my imagination run riot and the idea of gunboats flying throu the sky dropping ash, soot and bombs on those down below was quite inspiring :-). Modelling one of those gunboats, HMFS "Dauntless", was a great fun as well. I have tried to stick as closely as possible to the ship's drawings from the game while, at the same time, adding few bits and pieces to make the model look a bit more realistic (IMO of course) Best wishes D.P ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: Fritz Koopman Subject: Re: USS CONSTITUTION sails Okay....... I'll bite.......... in more ways than one. Bite one: I'm gonna hafta make a concession (doncha know, it always happens when I insist I'm right on something). While she doesnt have royal masts, the fourth set of yards on each mast, the top-gallant yards, are (I was wrong here) referred to as royals yards. IF the ship was constructed with royal masts, and she had two yards on her gallant masts, (such as a some clipper ships had) THEN she would have upper and lower gallants, and the first yard on the royal mast would be the royal. As is the case with the Constitution, only the lower yard on the gallant mast would be considered a gallant yard. Oops (he says meekly with apologies) Bite two: My two primary sources (that I'm comfortable with) are the ship as she is today, and a copy of the sailplan drawn by Humphreys that my dad made while working at the Charlstown navy yard back in the mid sixties. The two are in fact almost the same, with the exception that she is curently missing her studding sail gear. So my list for sails is for her original designed configuratrion, and does not include any changes or additions that may have been made in the early to mid 1800's. This list includes: Fore sail.....................................................1 Fore topsail...............................................1 Fore gallant sail..........................................1 Fore Royal................................................1 Fore studding sails ( 1 port, 1 stbd)............2 Fore top studding sails ( p & s)..................2 Fore gallant studding sails ( p & s)..............2 Mainsail.....................................................1 Main topsail...............................................1 Main gallant sail..........................................1 Main Royal................................................1 Main studding sails ( 1 port, 1 stbd)............2 Main top studding sails ( p & s)..................2 Main gallant studding sails ( p & s)..............2 Mizzen topsail............................................1 Mizzen gallant sail.......................................1 Mizzen Royal.............................................1 Mizzen top studding sails ( p & s)...............2 Mizzen gallant studding sails ( p & s)...........2 Flying Jib...................................................1 Jib.............................................................1 Fore topmast staysail.................................1 Main staysail..............................................1 Main top staysail........................................1 Main gallant staysail....................................1 Mizzen staysail...........................................1 Mizzen top staysail.....................................1 Mizzen gallant staysail................................1 Spanker (or mizzen gaff-sail)........................1 Mizzen gaff-topsail.....................................1 Total..........................................................38 I know that the Mizzen and Mizzen studs are not on this list, however they are not present on the sailplan, and the ship as she is today, has no sheeting gear for these sails. I know that I may not have correctly named the three jibs, however none of the sails are actually named on these plans. They are only numbered with a reference to the materials/cordage list sheets that my father does not posess. Best Regards Fritz K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Art Herrick" Subject: Re: Buffalo SMMLCon 2003 >> Darren Scannell and I would like to propose holding an SMMLcon the weekend of May 2-4, 2003 in Buffalo, NY. << I am interested in attending ... tell us more. Art Herrick Westmoreland, New Hampshire USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: David Gregory Subject: Re: Buffalo SMMLCon 2003 >> Darren Scannell and I would like to propose holding an SMMLcon the weekend of May 2-4, 2003 in Buffalo, NY. << Count the PT Dockyard in too! I'm not that far away! Dave G. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: Wants I'm looking for a couple of the Dragon/DML 1/700 USS Princeton 'Independence' class aircraft carrier (CVL). Can anybody help? If so, email me off-digest. Thanks. Michael McMurtrey ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume