Subject: SMML VOL 1990 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 2002 01:39:17 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: "Torch" P-40 colors 2: Re: DIY Etching 3: Re: the UK Storm 4: Re: Fantasy 5: Mk. 29 Launchers 6: Re: Colour Interpretation B+W Photos 7: Re: Scratchbuilding Hulls 8: Re: Constitution sails 9: Re: Testors Marine Colors 10: Historical Question: HMS Devonshire 11: John Rule's colour identification process 12: Re: 1/350 New Jersey 13: American Flags 14: Bismarck & Tirpitz colours 15: Italian Battleship Roma -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Trumpeter 1/350 kits ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Bob Reddy Subject: Re: "Torch" P-40 colors The USAAF P-40Fs that were carried to North Africa aboard the USS Chenango (ACV-28) had the standard desert scheme that has already been described, sand and stnne with an azure blue underside. They also had tropcal air filters and carried drop tanks. They carried the yellow surround on the fuselage sides and on the upper wing markings as well. I have not come across anything definite about the lower wings. They also carried a US flage with the blue field facing toward the nose of the aircraft. There are quite a few photos of the P-40s aboard the Chenango. Here are a few: HUNTER-KILLER by William T. Y'Blood: Page 23 has an excellent shot of 2 P-40Fs of the 33rd FG, dated 10Nov42. The a/c have the yellow surround on the fuselage andupper wings, with the US flag in front of the fuselage. One of them is being shot off on the port catapult (Chenango only had one cat at time time), while the other is waiting its turn to starboard. GREAT SHOT CURTISS P-40D-N WARHAWK: ARCO-AIRCAM Aviation Series No. 7. This book has color profiles including the plan views of the desert camouflage scheme. The propeller hubs were stone. The book also has an excellent photo of P-40s moving down the deck prior to launching. The caption says that they are on the USS Ranger (CV-4) - but I think that only the Chenango carried the P-40s for "Torch". Also the photo does not show the folded funnels that should be seen aft. HISTORY of US NAVAL AIR POWER: Editor: Robert L. Lawson. Page 42 show an overhead view of Chenango with 60 P-40s on her deck. She carried another 12 in her hanger deck. Page 42 also has a color profile of an SBD-3 (41-S-9) of VS-41 from the USS Ranger (CV-4) that shows the yellow fuselage surround - no surround is shown for the lower wing markings. The book also has, on page 41, a color deck photo of the USS Santee in her Ms17 scheme, showing the planes arranged around the deck. Santee launched her planes like a carousel - lined up toward the stern on the starboard side then toward the bow on the port side. This was done because they were using the catapult on the port side. Remember these CVEs had only been in commission for less than three months. In effect, Torch was their shakedown cruise. They got better in 1943. Nice color profile of an F4F-4 of VGF-28 aboard the USS Suwanee (ACV-28) on pages 44,45.&n ESCORT CARRIER IN ACTION: Warship No.9: Squadron/Signal Publications has a photo on page 23 showing the P-40s stored in the hanger deck. They do not have the US flag or the yellow surrounds on their markings. I recall reading that the markings were applied when the ships got out to sea toward North Africa. I hope this helps. Bob Reddy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: DIY Etching >> I then put the piece of brass in the Ferric Chloride solution. It is also available from Radio Shack. Use a glass bowl to hold the solution. Do not use aluminum tools - since FeCl reacts stongly with Aluminim. Heck, do not even use chrome plated tools - the stuff will eat that too. (Necessary disclaimer - use eye protection, and clothes protection. This stuff eats metal - it will eat skin and ruin clothes.) << While I don't recommend bathing in the stuff, It actually is not that dangerous/corrosive to skin. as an acid it is rather mild compared to sulfuric or nitric or hydrochloric. I do agree strongly about the eye protection and fume protection though. The stuff will discolor skin, will burn like hell if it gets into a cut, but short exposures will not damage intact skin. >> I attended a seminar at this years IPMS/USA Nats presented by David Merriman on chemical milling/photoetching. << He did a number of presentations ion mold making, metal casting, spin molding etc. A really great set of presentations. >> I wish there was a site that had the transcript of his presentation, along with the visual aids. It was too much to remember. << Actually I think he has most of it or equivalent posted on his website: http://www.culttvman.com/acid-etching.html see also Randy Gordon-Gilmore's site: http://www.prototrains.com/ Regards, Bradford Chaucer Hi Brad, Cultvman is run by Steve Iverson, Dave contributes regulary to it ;-) Shane ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: M Brown Subject: Re: the UK Storm The article on the Beeb's website makes for fun reading. Also St.Albans was hit by a ferry in the storm which at its peak was recorded at 96.6 mph. On a more sombre note 7 died. Army chiefs are asking citizens to keep an eye out for an inflatable tank which was blown away in the strong gales which battered the UK over the weekend. The inflatable, life-size dummy tank was moored to the ground during a training exercise near Tredegar, south Wales. But 80 mile per hour winds tore the battle tank replica from ropes tethering it to the ground and the vehicle is officially "missing in action". A widescale search including a helicopter is now underway for the errant inflatable. On Monday a military spokesman said they were anxious to hear from anyone who may have woken during the morning to find a tank in their garden. Up to 860 soldiers were taking part in the annual Cambrian Patrol exercise at Trefil at the foot of the Brecon Beacons. The troops were enacting a battle scene using "enemy positions" created using the tank replica, which is Royal Air Force property. The army is now scouring the hills of mid Wales using a helicopter to find the inflatable. Reality exercises Red-faced Sergeant Major Brian Pratt said: "If anyone's found my tank, please give us a bell. "It looks like a proper tank - from 200 metres away, you would think it was a green tank with wheels and a barrel. It really looks the part. "It is about the size of three cars. It would fill a big garden. When deflated, it takes three men to lift," the sergeant major told BBC Radio Wales. "We have got about six blow-up tanks. We use them every year for different exercise to make the exercise as realistic as possible. "It was particularly unusual weather." The other inflatables used in the exercise were deflated and removed before the winds could carry them away. Frigate damaged in weekend storms The Royal Navy’s newest frigate has suffered ‘significant’ damage after being struck by a ferry during the weekend storms. HMS St Albans, which was only handed over to the Navy a year ago and has yet to undertake her first operational deployment, was berthed in Portsmouth Naval Base when she was hit by the P&O cross-Channel ferry Pride of Portsmouth at just after 5.30am on Sunday. The ferry, travelling from Le Havre to the Continental Ferryport at the northern end of Portsmouth Harbour, was making its way round the Fountain Lake when she is thought to have been caught by a blast of wind – which was gusting at up to 70mph at the time. She struck the frigate, buckling the port 30mm gun deck, crushing the sea-boat sponsons and damaging the bridge wing. The frigate had a duty watch of 37 on board, none of whom was injured, and the ferry, which suffered superficial damage, continued to the ferryport where she disembarked her 850 passengers as normal. The ship also had a crew of about 130. St Albans was in the final week of her preparations for operational sea training, but that is likely to be delayed while the extent of the damage is assessed and put right. One option would be to bring forward a period of assisted maintenance which was scheduled for after operational sea training, which would reduce any possible delays in her joining the front line. The warship is not thought to have been damaged below the waterline, although a team of divers will be checking her hull today, and a joint investigation between the Queen’s Harbourmaster and the harbourmaster at the commercial port has been instigated. Michael Brown ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "Andrew Jones" Subject: Re: Fantasy In regards to D.Przezdziecki about the space ship game etc, I also just remembered a Dr Who episode where I think there was a race between "sailing" ships in space..if I remember correctly the main ship was a style of Galleon & the others were of mix styles. I think I only saw the episode once ( & I don't think I was a big fan of that particular doctor) so I cant really re-call it, so maybe you could have a space ship race using old sailing ships Well anyhow, might be worth checking with any friends that are doctor fans & seeing if they know the episode ..i think it was towards the end of the series Andrew ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Joe & Adrienne Norris Subject: Mk. 29 Launchers Greetings, Does anyone know where I can get a set of 1/350 Mk. 29 Sea Sparrow launchers for the Tamiya CVN-65 kit. The provided parts are way too big... Thanks in advance!!! Joe Norris ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Terry Wiltshire Subject: Re: Colour Interpretation B+W Photos >> On the Saturday Oct 26 broadcast of the TV show AGENCY our CIA backroom boys were trying to determine the colour of the eyes from the B+W photo of an Iraqi defector's dead wife. The show had us believe that the CIA had the technology to determine with certainty that the eyes of the woman in the photo were brown while the defector said his wife's were green. << Smmlies So let me get this right. A man said his wife,s eyes were green and the CIA said they were brown and we are supposed to believe the CIA! Terry Budapest ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Daniel Taylor" Subject: Re: Scratchbuilding Hulls Dear Peter It is not quite what you were asking, but I have been using a product called Prototyping board. It is a kind of plastic resin product that comes in a block the size of a tombstone. Description: It is a bit like a hard wood with no grain. It comes in a light brown colour and is excellent to carve and shape. It comes in a number of grades which equate to its hardness. It retains it's rigidity even when plained down to very thin sections. The softest is probably appropriate (also slightly cheaper) as the harder typed are only workable with industrial tools. It is used by professional model making companies to build scale prototypes and wind-tunnel models. Downside is the cost I have not found anyone who offers it in smaller sizes than the tombstone mentioned above. The slab I bought cost £200 (GB Pounds) which is a fair layout sight unseen. On the bright side, I have made nearly a dozen 1/76 scale craft fom it so far and have not used half of it. If it would be of interest, I'll dig out the address of the people I got it from and post it on the list. Good luck with your quest to go scratchbuilt. Dan Taylor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "David Griffith" Subject: Re: Constitution sails Fritz Koopman suggested the following, >> Fore sail.....................................................1 Fore topsail...............................................1 Fore gallant sail..........................................1 Fore Royal................................................1 Fore studding sails ( 1 port, 1 stbd)............2 Fore top studding sails ( p & s)..................2 Fore gallant studding sails ( p & s)..............2 Mainsail.....................................................1 Main topsail...............................................1 Main gallant sail..........................................1 Main Royal................................................1 Main studding sails ( 1 port, 1 stbd)............2 Main top studding sails ( p & s)..................2 Main gallant studding sails ( p & s)..............2 Mizzen topsail............................................1 Mizzen gallant sail.......................................1 Mizzen Royal.............................................1 Mizzen top studding sails ( p & s)...............2 Mizzen gallant studding sails ( p & s)...........2 Flying Jib...................................................1 Jib.............................................................1 Fore topmast staysail.................................1 Main staysail..............................................1 Main top staysail........................................1 Main gallant staysail....................................1 Mizzen staysail...........................................1 Mizzen top staysail.....................................1 Mizzen gallant staysail................................1 Spanker (or mizzen gaff-sail)........................1 Mizzen gaff-topsail.....................................1 Total..........................................................38 << May I suggest a few additions to this total. Fore staysail Fore t'gallant staysail (probably) In addition, I beleive that a number of other sails might be set in very light wind conditions to take advantage of every bit of movement in the air. Skysails could be set flying (yards supported only on their lifts and halliards, not secured to the mast with jeers or parralls) above the royals, on specially extended royal masts. I have seen a photo of a Royal Navy ship with sails set underneath the studding sails, suspended from the studding sail booms, up against the hull of the ship and just skimming the surface of the sea. I also beleive that it was possible to rig extensions to the boom and gaff (similar to studding sail booms) in order to set extensions to the spanker and gaff topsail. I think these may have been called the ringtail and the jigger, but I'm willing to stand corrected on this. Fritz is quite correct in saying that a course and consequently studding sails would not have been set from the lower yard on the mizzen (crossjack yard). I reckon that this takes the total up to somewhere in the region of 49 sails, although I cannot imagine that there would be a situation where every single one would be set at the same time. "Any advance on 49, do I hear 50, 50, anybody going to give me fifty? Going...going...... Regards, David Griffith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Testors Marine Colors >> James wrote (in SMML 1987) to report that the new Testors Marine Acrylic colors have been received at his shop. The list of colors is on the Testors site, in their PDF format catalog (page 44 of 56). See http://www.testors.com/Default.asp Click the CATALOG icon & search the PDF file for "acrylic" << I just heard back from my Sales Rep - they are reworking the Testors website to include this an other new products. If you try to get the info from the "paints" entry in the frame you won't get anything about the new marine rack. Clicking on the PDF Catalog has taken about 5 minutes to load with my DSL connection - TONS of graphics! James Corley AAA Hobby Supply ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Historical Question: HMS Devonshire I was reading the history book prepared by my grandfathers unit in WW2, the 319th IR. In the history it says the regiment boarded HMS Devonshire on 4AUG44 to cross the channel. My question is why would they use a RN Heavy Cruiser and could she indeed carry an entire Infantry Regiment? My first guess is that there was a transport ship also named HMS Devonshire, but I would find that hard to believe. James ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: Robert Lockie Subject: John Rule's colour identification process John I tried to follow your brilliant suggestion for the colour interpretation in SMML 1989 but guess what? The only matelot whose tattoo I could see was buried at sea. I am about to commission a search of the Pacific Ocean floor but it may take a few days to find him. Will keep you posted&... Robert Lockie Swindon UK ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Richard Rathgeber Subject: Re: 1/350 New Jersey >> After a long period of non-activity due to medical, I am finally able to return to modeling and life. Question, I am going to be working on a 1/350 model of the USS New Jersey in her 1980's modernized configuration and am looking to find aftermarket deck, guns and extra detail parts in this scale. I am starting on the Big J, but am curious as to if any after market parts have been produced for all WW2 warships of the IJN and USN? I am going to also be inlaying material for the teak decking and am looking for suggestions, ref articles as such to help out in this process. Also, kit wise..any word on the new WW2 injection molded carrier kits that are rumored for release? << Dear Bob, Concerning your plans to do a 1/350 scale model of the USS New Jersey in the 1980's configuration I would suggest several options. Several companies produce models of the New Jersey, however; in my opinion the Tamiya model is by far the best. Gold Medal Products makes a very nice set of photoetched brass for World War II Missouri class battleships. I am unaware of any aftermarket gun barrels for that scale so let me make the following suggestions. For the five inch guns I have found that using 22 gauge hypodermic needle's is a perfect match. Let me preface this with the statement that as an emergency room physician I can get a good supply of these which then are cut off with a Dremel cut off wheel. I too have thought of laying down the an actual wooden deck and had made several attempts. After many sorrowful failures and after lengthy discussions with other members of the Philadelphia ship model society I believe that simulated painted deck works best. I have been doing a kit bashing to construct a Korean War version of the USS New Jersey in its 1953 configuration. All the best of luck. Richard Rathgeber ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "shaya Subject: American Flags Does anybody know where to get 1' long American Flags or smaller in cloth for warships????? Shaya Novak Naval Base Hobbies www.modelshipbuilding.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: Imre Subject: Bismarck & Tirpitz colours Hi, I need paint info for Tirpitz & Bismarck camouflage scheme for March 1944 for Tirpitz and deck colour. Same for Bismarck in 1941. Thanks ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Lou Meszaros Subject: Italian Battleship Roma Can anyone tell me if the deck was painted steel on the Roma, or was it painted/stained wood? It appears that the area around the catapult was timber, but the rest looks like painted steel. Thanks in advance, Lou ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: AAA Hobby Subject: Re: Trumpeter 1/350 kits >> can anyone tell me where to order those 1/ 350 Trumpeter Kits (CV-8 etc..) online? My "local dealer" ist rather helpless in ordering those goods for me. Now ìll try on my own.... Thanks in advance for suggestions and help... << AAA Hobby is still offering these kits at a price of $110 + postage on a preorder basis. This price is subject to change, of course, especially if the price goes down (HA!) James Corley AAA Hobby Supply email: aaahobby@earthlink.net ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume