Subject: SMML VOL 2004 Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2002 13:33:22 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Model Kit 2: Re: question of scale 3: HMS Hermes 1942 4: Deck Color 5: Scale Math 6: Thank you for your interest folks 7: Re: Why Teak Decks? 8: Model Calculations, was question 9: Cleaning Resin Kits and 1/250 Yamato 10: Re: this may sound like a stupid question 11: Re: Union Ironclad Colors 12: Re: Why teak decks? 13: EU AND SWASTIKA 14: Missing ship -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: USS Missouri Photo CD now available 2: WEM Telford Special Offer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Hardin, Larry C" Subject: Model Kit I'm trying to find a plastic kit of the USS VIRGINIA (CGN-38). Can you help me out please. v/r, Larry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Dafuelmann Subject: Re: question of scale Your correct on how to arrive at a scale diemension , by dividing the actual measurment by the scale. Don't forget that the answer is in the same increment as the original dimension. ie a fraction of feet or meters. I find it less confusing to convert the actual dimension to the increment I'm working in, like convert feet to inches, or meters to millimiters. If I'm doing a lot of measurments, like scaling all the superstructure pieces, I'll divide 1 by the scale,say 700. This will give a decimial. Then multiply this by 12(inches) I'll put this decimal in the memory, then just divide the measured feet of the piece by MRC (Memory Return). and out comes the scale measurment in inches. It saves pushing a lot of buttons. HTH David ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Russ Smith" Subject: HMS Hermes 1942 I'm getting ready to do my HP Hermes. In all my reference books it states that she had no radar installed but in every picture I have (Two different views, shown many times) with different clarity of her sinking there seems to be the characteristic radar dome at her mast head. Could this have been installed before she left harbor for the last time? Or, am I seeing something else? References W/ Picture: Aircraft Carriers Antony Peston Page 105 Aircrat Carriers ... Norman Polmar page 178 The Encylopedia of the Worlds Warships page 17 References Without/ Picture: Conway's 1922 to 1946 Linton's British & Commnwealth ships Aircraft Carriers of the British & Commonwealth Navies Aircraft Carriers of The World From 1914 to present British Aicraft Carriers. Virtually none of these books say it was installed most state it was not. So, what is it if not radar? Opinions please! Russ Smith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: Deck Color Sorry I have to weigh in. Cruise ships washing their decks every day is diffierent than the decks being holy-stoned. Holy-stoning is more akin to sand-papering, Take a piece of Teak, Sand it, and that will give you the closest color you will get. The book "Battleship at War" had a neat description of the USS Washington's deck color before the war when the decks were Holy-stoned every day. The Book described the process as being done by deck division. and so the port and Starboard sides were done separately, they described the deck after holy-stoning as being nearly white, with about a 1/4 inch stripe of a yellowish color down the middle of the ship where neither division would cross over to the other side to holy-stone the other sides deck. Thanks. Richard Sweeney ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Scale Math In SMML 2K+3, Andrew Jones posed what he thought to be a stupid question. There are no stupid questions, just stupid people who don't ask questions. Anyway, here comes a response which I hope doesn't make me look too stupid. You want to make a model of something -- lets say its an 80' ELCO PT boat. You want to work in 1:72 scale. One foot of the model represents 72 feet of the real thing. The model length would be 80' divided by 72 or 1.111 feet in length. Convert that to inches and you get 12 (inches per foot) * 1.111 = 13.333 inches. The 1:48 scale model is 80/48 := 1.667 feet or 20.004 inches. The 1:350 scale model is 80/350 := 0.228 feet or 2.743 inches. The conversion of inches to centimeters is multiply inches by 2.54. That was good for an even foot-length subject. What happens if the subject is stated as mixed units, like 192'10 3/4"? Here you multiply 192 times 12 to get inches, then add the inches and fraction. 192*12 := 2,304 plus 10.75 := 2,314.75. Then you divide by the scale you want ... 2,314 inches .75 / 72 := 32.149 inches. Just remember to keep track of the units. Now you know why you shouldn't have nodded off in math class, or said to your math instructor what am I going to need that for in the real world ;-> Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: lamkeel Subject: Thank you for your interest folks Dear fellow members Thankyou for your interest in the theft of Mr Buttress's model. I am meeting him next Saturday and we are going on to Telford where I hope to meet others of our ilk. (Or sickness). (Including AR)! I have told him of your interest in the matter and he is very gracious. I understand that he still has NOT had a visit from the Police and he has written to his Chief Constable, to inform him of his feelings! I too will add a letter to the list when I receive his address. This will come from a retired member of the "cloth". Who did the job for over 28 years without fear of favour. It would seem that with this simple system, and the help of Shane and Lorna in Aus we have shown more interest and got more done, than the Birmingham City Police. Colour photographs WILL be posted when I can pick them up next Saturday. (Bet it rains)! NOW, about this here Cricket thing'y in Aus, any help with that please? We need it! Yours "Aye" John ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Singcarol234 Subject: Re: Why Teak Decks? Kelvin Mok, re: Why Teak Decks? The way it was explained to me back in the early 50's, the wooden deck's were placed on BB's to prevent 'sparks' when metal enclosed powder bags where on loaded. Metal containers bouncing off metal decks equal sparks, sparks equal ingnition of the powder... At least that's how it was explained to me by my CPO. Bob ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Ron Hillsden Subject: Model Calculations, was question Andrew, your basic math is correct. For 1/72: Length of ship(feet)/72 = length of model(feet). Multiply by 12 to convert to inches. You probably know metric is easier. There is a page explaining model calculations at http://members.shaw.ca/modelflags/tips/select.html While focused on radio control, the technique for reducing dimensions is the same....... Ron Hillsden Victoria BC Canada ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Cleaning Resin Kits and 1/250 Yamato I currently work with several resin casters to produce my IHP products, and they have told me that lacquer thinner works well for cleaning the resins they use. I had been hunting for a cheap, non-labour intensive cleaner to clean resins with, since I paint a lot of resin railcar models. I tried lacquer thinner recently, and it seems to work very well. Detergents may not break down all the oils and mould releases and they certainly will not do anything to the surface of the resin itself. You want something that will clean away oils, dust and anything else, and also something that will SLIGHTLY pickle the surface of the resin (yes, this is possible on some resins). Lacquer thinner seems to do both these things. I do a lot of painting of resin railcar body shells, and had a problem with light bumps and scratches and masking tape pulling away clean sections of paint during assembly. I was cleaning them with household cleaners like Fantastik, which sometimes worked, but not always. After I started using lacquer thinner, I noticed that the paints were more scratch resistant and the paints had much better adhesion. I just sprinkle the lacquer thinner on the part, spread it all over with an old toothbrush, and let it sit for a few seconds, then scrub and rinse in cool water. Any brand will do. I prime my resin with automobile primer (it comes in grey, black and white), and it is available at your local auto parts store. Plasti-Kote, a Pactra brand, is the best. Then, paint it with any paint you want. I have the Doyusha 1/250 Yamato kit, and I think it's an excellent kit for R/C purposes (so is the big Nichimo kit). But, the Arii kit is the one to go with if you want a detailed, more accurate shelf display model. And, finally, I have to throw in my congrats to Shane and Lorna for keeping SMML going these 2000 issues. I joined late, but I am impressed with the amount of dedication that must go into just coallating all the messages each day. Mike Bartel Imperial Hobby Productions http://ihphobby.tripod.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: this may sound like a stupid question Andrew wrote: >> But im thinking of scratch building & im working off just a verbal description of something Now this is where it probably sounds silly for you professionals out there... now I know the dimensions of something & they are all in feet or metres ( then cut it down to cm etc), now im hoping to work it into 1/72 scale/25mm ... now If I just divide the real life length by 72 that should give me the actual model size right??? Im not used to the scale scratchbuilding style of work... so I just wanted to double check << This is not a stupid question, Andrew. After years of working with this stuff, occasionally I calculate the length of a 1:72 scale Battleship and it comes out 0.001"! ("Hmmm...something's wrong here.") Scales are most commonly expressed as a ratio between the size of the prototype (the real thing), and the model. The ratio can be expressed as a ratio ("1:72") or a fraction ("1/72"), but I prefer the ratio notation for reasons noted below. In the ratio, the first number (in common practice a "1") represents the length on the model, the second number the length (in the same units of measure) on the real thing. Thus a 1:72 scale model torpedo boat 12" (1 foot) long would represent an actual boat with a length of 684" (72 feet). In architectural work (and early model practice) scales are often expressed as '1/4" Scale' or "Quarter Inch Scale". This means 1/4" = 1 foot. This is handy in a limited area, but if the units are changed to, say, meters, the scale notation becomes worthless (although you can calculate a conversion factor--in this case .25 inch = 12 inches = 1:48.) Even today, ship scales of 1:96 and 1:192 are often referred to as "1/8" and "1/16" scales. To avoid confusion with this practice, I prefer ratio (1:72) notation. Military Miniatures ("Figures") scale is often given as the height in millimeters of an average (or 6 foot tall, opinions differ) male figure. Therefore, a figure in 25mm scale is 25mm tall. As you note, this works out to about 1:72 scale. To convert real dimensions (in 1:72 scale) to model dimensions, first convert the ratio to a decimal by dividing the first number by the second (1 divided by 72 = 0.01389.) Multiply the real dimension by the decimal to get the model dimension (72' real torpedo boat length times 0.01389 = 1' long model.) To do this easily on a calculator with a memory (like the one in Windows), divide 1 by 72 and store the answer in the memory ("MS" key.) Then enter the real dimension, press multiple ("*" key), press Memory Recall ("MR" key), then Equals ("=" key). The result is the model dimension (in the same units of measure.) To convert model dimensions to full-size dimensions, multiply by 72. (An easier calculation, but it doesn't come up much, except when you want to know the full-size thickness of a piece of 0.010" styrene.) If you do a lot of scratch building (as I do), a set of digital calipers is an invaluable tool. The readout is in decimal inches (or, at the press of a button, millimeters), eliminating the need to convert factions of an inch to decimals. A cheap (Chinese) version runs about $40. Edd ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Edward F Grune" Subject: Re: Union Ironclad Colors Ken Goldman (SMML2003) cited a letter written by a Union sailor that his ship had been painted a "very light Lead color". He questioned what the 'Lead color' might be. I would like to refer the listmembers to an excellent monograph on period ship colors which is located at the Nautical Research Guild website: http://www.Naut-Res-Guild.org/services/shopnotes/Colors/nrg_colors.html The title is "Paint and Colors for American Merchant Vessels, 1800-1920: Their Study and Interpretation for Modelmaking", by Erik Ronnberg. I would ask you to first set aside the term 'American Merchant' when you read this monograph. The study of the colors used has applicability to not only American ships, but also to ships of many nations. Many of these colors may also have been applied to the bright uperworks of many Victorian and Edwardian era warships. My opinion as to Lead color, probably something in the range of "Pearl Gray" on Plate 4. Ed Mansfield, TX ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Tom Tom Subject: Re: Why teak decks? >> There had been much discussion about the colour of teak decks. I visited the North Carolina undergoing restoration last year and the weathered teak deck was greyish with a bluish tint. Where the teak had been sanded the colour was teak tan. But what is the reason behind having teak deck liners in the first place? Smaller ships do quite well with ordinary armoured decks and presumably BBs have much thicker armoured decks. Why then the necessity to lay teak planks over the deck armour in BB? << Teak gives good footing even when wet. It reduces sun/heat absorbtion compared to bare steel and it is attractive. Think of it as a luxury floor covering... BBs were the Gun Navy's beloved show barges & they were not going to go with the equivalent of cheap carpeting. I have some teak trim on my boat and it looks grey when it has been sitting in the sun oxidizing for months, dark brown when wet or recently oiled and it would be tan if I ever sanded it (which I don't). Only the very wealthy or the Navy have the manpower and money to be sanding (or holystoning) teak all the time. The planks wear down and it is expensive to replace! Tom K ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: EU AND SWASTIKA ALL, I DON'T RECALL WHERE IT CAME FROM AND THIS IS AS CLOSE AS I CAN GET: WHEN WE IGNORE HISTORY, WE ARE DOOMED TO REPEAT IT. DAVID IN DIXIE ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: clem Subject: Missing ship I belong to a group in Dallas Tx. Send me a picture [and details]and I too will have it posted. Clem Jensen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SeaPhoto Subject: USS Missouri Photo CD now available Hello Everyone I am very pleased to announce my latest photo CD, the USS Missouri Photo CD. More than just a tour of the museum ship, it includes: Over 240 Pictures, all hi-resolution (approx 1200 pixels wide), over 160MB of files. Over 200 views of the USS Missouri museum as she appears today at Pearl Harbor, onboard details, details from shore and much, much more - a modelers delight! 7 Underway views of the Missouri from 1991 28 views of the magnificent 1/48 scale Gibbs and Cox model of the 1945 USS Missouri in the Washington Navy Yard. The price for this CD is $ 14.99 plus 2.00 S/h in the US, $ 3.00 world wide. I take Paypal, or you can send a check or money order to: SeaPhoto 1145 Oakwood Drive Millbrae, CA 94030 Be sure to check out my other photo CD's on the USS Cobia (SS-245) and World War II German Destroyers too. You can get details on all my CD's by following this link: http://wmunderway.8m.com/seaphoto/catalog/index.html#cd Kurt Greiner SeaPhoto www.warshipphotos.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: John Snyder Subject: WEM Telford Special Offer OK SMMLies, for all readers of SMML who will be attending the IPMS/UK Scale Model World gathering at Telford this weekend: Mention this post, and receive 10% off all WEM products, including Colourcoats. In addition, buy any combination of two or more Classic Warships and/or WR Press titles and receive a £5.00 discount. Again, remember to mention the SMML Special. We'll be looking for you at the WEM stand. (I'll be the guy trying desperately to keep the Colourcoats rack stocked up....) Cheers, John Snyder White Ensign Models ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume