Subject: SMML VOL 2026 Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2002 13:04:02 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Midway TV presentation 2: Sink the Bismark/Pursuit of the Graf Spee 3: Model Values 4: Re: Chesneau's HOOD Book 5: Spar Coloration 6: Re: RMS Titanic et al 7: Re: Model donations 8: Re: USS Wyoming 9: Re: Teak Decks 10: Re: Battlefield Series on PBS 11: Re: Orange peel 12: Teak Decks On USS North Carolina 13: Re: Midway TV presentation 14: Re: Sink the Bismarck 15: Re: AG-17 Wyoming Armament 1943 16: Doolittle Raid colors 17: Doolittle Raid escort ships 18: VHS 19: Trumpter's 2003 list.. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "Fernando, Yohan" Subject: Re: Midway TV presentation The two seasons of "Battlefield" on PBS are/were among the best WWII documentaries I have seen. I think they originally aired on PBS in 1995/96. Actually, it was the Midway episode that got me seriously into ship modelling when I first saw it in July 1995. The other two naval related episodes (from the 96 season) were the Battle of Leyte Gulf and the Battle of the Atlantic, but really all of the episodes are top-notch. I really liked the 2-hour format and the breakdown of the commanders, the equipment, the political leaders, etc. besides just the battle itself. So much better than most of the junk on the History Channel. I have all three of the naval episodes on tape, but the quality of the recordings is pretty bad (I have watched them too many times!). If you really want to get nice copies, I would try to contact PBS (at least here in the US). Yohan Fernando ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: Sink the Bismark/Pursuit of the Graf Spee Now Roger, I believe it was a British Film company that filmed "Pursuit of the Graf Spee." wasn't it?? American companies would have used models. As I remember the Cruiser Salem was a less than enthusiastic participant, refusing (as they should have) to paint out the hull numbers or Fly the German Naval ensign. While I admit the Salem looked NOTHING like the Graf Spee, the British ships looked wonderful, I believe some of them played themselves didn't they? The most annoying part was that the TV announcer here kept saying (Obviously an illiterate chap.) "And Now back to 'Pursuit of the Graf Spree' ". My family was subjected to the usual bout of corrective invectives directed at the Television. Take Care. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: CokerRE Subject: Model Values Anyone in the readership that is seriously interested in ship model values should look to the aucion makets. It is here in a true free market of buyers and sellers that the true value of items is best reflected. The best indicators that I have found of the better work is at one of the Christie's or Sotheby's maritime auctions. They are held in New York, London, and Amsterdam at least once per year and are open to the public. Other auction houses also have maritime auctions and they can be searched on the internet. Each of these auctions have numerous ship models. And ship models are like everything else--the top ones bring the best prices and go down to nothing from there. Those that bring the consistently best prices of course are the prisoner of war and admiralty style models of sailing ships. Many contemporary models of warships and merchant ships are offered and bring decent prices. Recently a superb model of one of the German battlecruisers was offered but I have not seen the realized price. Even well done models from plastic kits are offered and bring several hundred dollar prices. However to say that models of modern ships regularly bring five and six figure prices is u Unfortunately ship model prices have also been deflated by global competition. Any astute collector that wants a first rate model can go to builders in third world countries to have first rate models constructed to order. Excellent models are now coming out of Russia, Korea, the Philippines, etc. This does not mean that the top Western model builders can not get excellent prices but that is due more to first rate marketing on the model builders part and a customer who does not want to bother with the pitfalls of broader unknown sources. Museums of course will pay top dollar to obtain models that pertain to their mission and content but are usually large models of particular vessels. Unfortunately when these type models come up at a real auction they fetch far lower prices than the cost to replace them. This is not meant to discourage ship model building but to point out that a huge investment in time does not end up realizing a meaningful price in today's market. And for those of you thinking about investing in a few ship models---watch the auction markets for the best values. PC Coker/Charleston ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Frank Allen Subject: Re: Chesneau's HOOD Book The book Roger Chesneau mentioned was his new book about the career of HMS HOOD. I'm sure he's too humble to get on a soapbox and talk about it, so I'll do it instead: Simply put, it's one of the best books you can get on the career of Hood.. I can think of only one other book that tops it, and that is "Flagship Hood" by my "boss", Ted Briggs (the last survivor of Hood). It's not a technical volume such as Maurice Northcott and John Roberts excellent books, but deals more with the history of Hood. It also features many interesting photos...not the typical stuff you generally see. He also had the support of the HMS Hood Association (photos and some details). I got to read the draft as well as the final copy and was honestly very impressed. It was a delight to read something genuinely good...especially after that last Hood book (by Norman). Don't waste your time with that one- get Roger's book instead. You'll be glad you did. Frank http://hmshood.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Victor M. Baca" Subject: Spar Coloration >> is there room for some USCG colors (Well, Spar anyway!) in the Colourcoat range? Next week would be good! << Spar can be mixed using brown and red hues from any paint range that suits your preference. I finished a small NOAA research ship model last year that used the same shade of USCG Spar on her masts and related fittings. I still have an old jar of USCG Spar from the cutter Point Evans for a reference, but since it's 20 years old and jelling nicely in the bottle, I also check with the prototype ship pix to be doubly sure I have it right. Mix some some paint in Desert Sand, Light Earth, Red and a bit of yellow until it looks like Spar. Add a few drops of the tints to the Sand (or any light tan) base color and keep referring to photos until you've got it. This is is a decidedly unscientific paint mixing method, but it works fine for me. The only caveat is that you need to make sure all colors are in the same paint manufacture range or you could have real compatability problems. Because the basic Spar hue was also used on ships of the U.S. Navy's Great White Fleet, perhaps it's not so far-fetched to imagine John Snyder providing some of it in those neat little tins afterall. Victor Baca ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Diodor Subject: Re: RMS Titanic et al It's Woods Hole Oceanographic Institution, not Institute. I too have mixed feelings about the artifacts. I have great admiration for Ballard and empathize with his feelings about keeping the site sacrosanct. On the other hand the artifacts provide us with a deeper sense of the tragedy, one that should never have happened. Franklyn, did you see the artifacts in Greenwich CT? If so, where?--or was it a traveling exhibit? Ted T ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: SHIPMDLR@ Subject: Re: Model donations >> I'm afraid your friend at the museum is wrong. We went through this situation a few years ago when someone wanted to donate some models to the Nautical Research Guild. I checked with several tax attorneys, and even contacted the IRS. I doubt the IRS rules on this subject have change recently. Only the value of the Kit or purchased parts can be claimed as a donation. The labor hours "of the donor" cannot be included. Also, any large donation must be backed up with considerable paperwork. I suggest contacting a very knowledgeable tax lawyer, and the IRS before proceeding. << This guy isn't a friend. I don't know him personally. He's the curator of the museum. As the curator of a good sized museum, I trust what he tells me since he deals with the IRS about these things. I would advise everyone to investigate this for themselves. Take the information for what it's worth. Rusty White IPMS/USA #20181 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: spallen Subject: Re: USS Wyoming >> The man who was making inquiries about the Wyoming in her incarnation as AG-17 may not have seen this rather well-known photo taken 30 Apr 1945, sailing eastward to do her part on D-Day at Normandy. The Wyoming was not a brand-new ship in WWI! http://www.navsource.org/archives/01/013213.jpg << Eh, huh? I was unaware that Wyoming left US waters during the war, and I was certainly unaware that D-day was after 30 April 1945. ;-) Steve Allen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Teak Decks Again, DON'T judge teak by the grey appearance of the old deck on NORTH CAROLINA as shown in that photo. That is unmaintained, un-holystoned wood. Note the black caulking mixture that they've put down to try to arrest water penetration--NOT a good fix, and certainly not what would have been done when the ship was in service. I suspect that the steel decking below the teak was in a pretty messy state when they lifted the teak. Nice color on the new teak, though. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models Home Page for WEM, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Re: Battlefield Series on PBS >> The series is called "Battlefield". Our local PBS station seems to run it every winter for the past few years. << The Corporation for Public Broadcasting (owner of PBS) puts out a regular print catalog of videos that they sell. I seem to get one every month, even though I've never purchased from them. They have an online catalog as well. Go to www.pbs.org and try searching. MWL Reston, VA USA ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Michael London" Subject: Re: Orange peel >> I painted and decaled the hull and deck of my Skywave Spruance, but when I sprayed it with Testors Dullcote, it orange peeled on me. The clear parts of the decals are flat, but the rest of the deck is not. I really don't want to strip the paint and start over. Is there anything I can do? << I am not sure what you mean by 'orange peeling'. Are you just referring to a non-uniform matt finish or is some actual peeling taking place. If the latter you may have to strip or sand to get a uniform flat surface. Dullcote needs a very good shake before using. Shake for two minutes at least when new. I assume you are protecting your decal using a setting solution such as Solvaset and, if so, you might like to try my own solution to getting a uniform matt finish. Mix a small quantity of white glue, such as Lepage BondFast, with water and add a tiny drop of dishwashing liquid. Apply with a brush taking care to get all surfaces covered and brushing out any bubbles from the soap that may form. I have done this for over thirty years with excellent results. Suggest you experiment with an old model or similar surface first. Avoid handling any matt surface with the bare hands as body oils can quickly destroy the matt effect. Michael London ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: Graeme Martin Subject: Teak Decks On USS North Carolina The colour of Teak Decks. I visited USS North Carolina a few years back and remember the stacks of Teak waiting to replace the old decks on her. I believe the teak was a gift from the Sultan of Brunei and that yes, Teak is a tan color until it weathers. Graeme Martin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: Midway TV presentation >> Some months back, I saw a show on TV giving a nice presentation of the action at the Battle of Midway. They had computer models of the carriers, showing where the bomb and torpedo hits were. 'Seems the series was called, "Battlefield". 'Don't recall the channel, but it might've been PBS (public television, for those outside the US). Does anyone remember the series? Does anyone have the Midway episode on tape? << Randy, This series is perhaps the best war history on television. In addition to Midway and Pearl Harbor, the series covers all the major land battles of WWII, Battle of Britain, Stalingrad, Normandy, Battle of the Bulge, etc. Each episode (typically 2 hours) starts with an overview of the situation leading to the battle, the commanders and units of each side, the weapons used by each side, and then the battle itself, followed by the results. In addition to WW2, there are other series on the Korean War (2-hours) and the Viet Nam War (6-hours?) I have always seen these on PBS. I hope they do WW1 some day. Sorry, don't have a copy, but they're probably available from PBS. Edd ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: royrichey Subject: Re: Sink the Bismarck Kevin, I'll check it out, it wasn't listed in the documentary section. Roy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: annobon4 Subject: Re: AG-17 Wyoming Armament 1943 Hi Considering the gun layout of the USS Wyoming AG-17. The ship was converted to a training ship in 1932. Because of Treaties signed in the 1920s she was demiltarized reducing her turrerts of 12 inch guns from 5 to 3. When WW2 came she was used for AA gunnery training and in 1944 the remaining 12 inch guns were removed she recieved 3 twin 5/38 guns. For 1943 her gun layout is listed in Norman Friedman's book US Battleships as 3 twin 12 inch turrerts, 6(6x1)5"/38 guns,1 twin 5/38 gun,4 3/50 guns, 1 quad 40mm,1 twin 40mm, 2 quad 1.1, 8 20mm,and 4 .50 cal guns. Now I have two photos of this configuration port and starboard. Contact me off line and I'll copy them for you. Craig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: MGFoster Subject: Doolittle Raid colors Yes... yet again someone is modeling the USS Hornet on the Doolittle raid. I picked up the Tamiya model and have been doing some research to get the colors of the aircraft and ship correct and just for the sake of getting familiar w/ the ship. I ran across a b/w photo of a B25 lifting off from the Hornet's flight deck. This is a really spectacular photo, the person who took it must have been on the cat-walk under the flight deck's leading edge (unfortunately, I did not note the URL of this web site and can't find it again). It appears that the aircraft's nacelle is a lighter color than the rest of the plane. In the background there appear to be 2 or 3 other aircraft with light colored nacelles. I've other b/w photos (from the Naval Historical web site) showing the other aircraft with nacelles that appear to be the same color as the rest of the plane. These other aircraft are on the after end of the flight deck (next to, or abaft the island. IOW, these photos don't show the leaders like the above mentioned photo). Does anyone know if the lead B25s (Doolittle's and planes 2-4) had light colored nacelles, and what was that color? Hornet's color: Can anyone recommend "in the can" colors that would match the Ms12-mod. camo. scheme? By "in the can" I mean paints that are available in modeling spray-paint cans (I don't have an airbrush). For example: Ocean Gray Testors Light Sea Gray Sea Blue Testors Blue (don't know if this is a Testor color) Haze Gray Testors Gull Gray Deck Blue ??? Can anyone also recommend paints (spray cans) for the B25s: Olive drab Light gray And, one more thing. The B25, nationality identification decals (white star on a blue circle, with a red circle in the center of the star) that came with the kit are off-register. Where can I get 1/700 scale replacement decals? Thanks, MGFoster:::mgf Oakland, CA (USA) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: MGFoster Subject: Doolittle Raid escort ships I wish to build one of the CAs that accompied the Doolittle raid (USS Northampton CA26, USS Salt Lake City CA25, USS Nashville CL43, USS Vincennes CA44). I'd prefer the Northampton or the Salt Lake City (SLC). I've seen the USS Louisville, a sister ship of the Northampton, on Pacific Front's website. It's a Tamiya kit, 1/700 scale. Price about $US12. Does anyone know about this kit? Can it be converted to the Northampton? The SLC is a Pensacola class cruiser. Is there a 1/700 scale kit of that available, or one of its class-sisters that can be converted? Note: In my searching the internet for info on any models of the escort ships I found a 1/700 kit of the USS Cimarron (AO22) by Skywave at Pacific Front for $US75!! This must be some model or it's carrying a barrel of oil in its tanks. Rgds, MGFoster:::mgf Oakland, CA (USA) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "DUCKMAN" Subject: VHS HI YA'LL, ONCE IN A WHILE I MAKE THE RIGHT DECISION. YES, I (oops, forgot) have "MIDWAY" ON tape. david in DIXIE this big an little letters thing is tough!!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: "william k code" Subject: Trumpter's 2003 list.. Oh, it's not nice to mess with an old Nimitz class sailors emotions like this... I have been waiting for years for someone to bring out a Nimitz in 1/350 .. I will probably purchase a Hornet just to encourage Trumpeter to bring out more kits.. I was really pissed at Tamya all those years ago when they brought out Enterprise in 1/350.. I thought you dumb asses....the Big E is a one of a kind ship..Sure you will get ship modelers and the odd old crew person who will want this kit.. But why not a Nimitz.. With a few add ons you now can market all the Nimitz class!!! .... sigh I do hope it comes to pass but I wont be holding my breath.. Cheers Bill Code ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume