Subject: SMML VOL 2028 Date: Sat, 23 Nov 2002 07:38:03 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: USS Virginia CGN-38 2: Doolittle colors 3: artifacts 4: Re: Doolittle Raid colours 5: Re: olive drab/trumpeter 6: Re: Orange peel 7: Re: USS Wyoming 8: Re: Doolittle Raid Escort Ships 9: Re: Doolittle Raiders Colors 10: Re: Doolittle markings 11: Re: Lifeboat Colours 12: http://wwww.britishpathe.com 13: Re: Lifeboat colours 14: HMCS SACKVILLE 15: Re: scroll saws 16: Doolittle raid colors 17: Andrea Gail (Perfect Storm) 18: Message To Gene Larson 19: Trumpeter list ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) Subject: USS Virginia CGN-38 I also have a question for anyone. Does anyone know were I can get a plastic kit of the USS VIRGINIA CGN-38. Thanks, Larry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: "Jeff Herne" Subject: Doolittle colors The Doolittle B-25s were brand new aircraft, the paint would not have weathered to that point in that short time. Chances are you're seeing a reflection of light against the nacelle. The controversy behind the Olive Drab is actually quite simple...the confusing part is determining which OD was used on the specific aircraft/vehicle you're modeling. It's almost impossible to determine this from B&W photos, since the two colors are very similar in grayscale tone until they've reached a point of serious fading. The United States Army Air Corps, and later Army Air Force, utilized two different sets of color standards regulating colors at the beginning of WWII. This resulted in two individual numbers for identical colors of paint, and orders being issued that often addressed portions of both standards on the same technical order. Although these numbers were standardized as early as 1939, the elimination of redundant standards did not officially take place until August of 1942. Both systems were then replaced in June of 1943 by the Joint Aircraft Committee's Subcommittee on Standardization, who adopted the ANA (Army-Navy Aircraft) color standard. It was envisioned that this system would provide a standard for all Army, Navy, and Royal Air Force aircraft produced in the US. The final, and probably most significant, change to the system resulted from the Army Corps of Engineers Specification TAC-ES680, requesting the replacement of the original Olive Drab 41 ( Spec. 3-1 No.) with the Army Corps of Engineers version. The two colors are very similar when freshly applied, with the ANA (Army Corps of Engineers) color being slightly darker and greener. One of the major drawbacks encountered with Olive Drab paint was its susceptibility to rapid fading. The effects of fading had more of an impact on the older Spec 3.1 Olive Drab, as it tended to turn more brown than the ANA color, which tended to fade to a light green. The wide variations of faded paint can more readily be attributed to: first, the durability of the paint, second, the large quantities of older-type paint available, and third, the general acceptance of either color by manufacturers and groundcrews. It should be noted that the large stockpiles of the early color resulted in the use of that color well into 1944, and it is not uncommon to see wide variations among Olive Drab painted aircraft operating within the same unit. The most common scheme was a result of USAAF Spec. 24114, dated September, 1940. This technical order called for Flat Olive Drab 613 upper surfaces with Flat Neutral Grey 603 undersurfaces, the undersurface color climbing to a point where it was not visible from more than 30° vertical of the fuselage side. Variations of this scheme included the use of Sand 616 in waves or motting over Olive Drab 613 for aircraft operating in desert environments, and Medium Green 612 motting over Olive Drab 613. The use of Medium Green 612 was approved to soften the edges of wings, vertical, and horizontal stabilizers. The nature of Olive Drab 613 to fade rapidly (unknown at that time) actually caused the Medium Green to contrast the Olive Drab rather than soften it. A revision to Spec. 12114, Technical Order T-07-1-1 of June 1942, allowed Medium Green 612 to replace Olive Drab altogether. This was a result of the problems encountered with the rapid fading of the Olive Drab paint, however, did not become standard practice. It is important to note that variations in the basic scheme were uncommon prior to the release of T.O. T-07-1-1. Sorry, started babbling... Jeff Herne Director, NJ Aviation Hall of Fame and Museum ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Reynaga, Tim@EDD" Subject: artifacts I too have mixed feelings about the recovery of artifacts from historic wrecks. It is clear that such sites as the USS Arizona or the HMS Hood (or, for that matter, Bismarck and Yamato) should be respected as war graves and left unlooted. Some exploration and even recovery of artifacts may be appropriate, as long as it is done with respect. Their entombed dead were fighting for freedom or in the service of their homelands, and their giving the last full measure in that service is clearly worthy of enduring honor. Nevertheless, at what point does such respect become mere mawkish pretense? Let's face it, the dead of the Titanic were little more than the maritime equivalent of bus-accident roadkill. They were not out there in defense of their country; they were simply taking a ride that went terribly wrong. Sad, yes, and tragic for those who loved them back in 1912, but really no more than just a larger than usual accident. Their mortal remains should be treated with dignity, but the vessel itself is just a wreck, similar to automobiles totalled on our highways every day. We have no difficulty simply having these removed, the parts disposed or recycled without undue sentimentality. Other than scale, how is Titanic different from a wrecked bus? ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: Re: Doolittle Raid colours Without the photos of the strike launch in front of me (I've seen them, too, but its' been a while) I think the lighter color on the B-25 nacelles is probably due to exhaust staining. IIRC, the B-25B had individual exhaust stacks per engine cylinder, spaced regularly about the cowling and ejecting over and under the wing. Radial engines are notorious oil-throwers and burners, and the lighter shade of olive drab visible on the cowling is probably due to the engine exhaust staining the paint. At least, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "john fiebke" Subject: Re: olive drab/trumpeter >> Despite that, it is well known that olive drab was notorious for starting to fade almost as soon as it dried, and I beleive (though don't quote me) that there are reports of it eventually appearing as a light buff or even a pinky grey under certain extreme conditions. << I saw a P-39 wreck a few years ago at a small air museum that had been dug out of the jungle and its olive drab paint scheme had faded to a rust color. Wait. That actually was rust. But I'll agree that I've never seen two shades of "olive drab" that are the same. Saying something is "olive drab" is like saying "paint your ship grey." And regarding Trumpeter, I for one am going to trust them on this new list. This company has promissed and delivered numerous models, in ALL categories, that modelers have been waiting for for decades. How long did the airplane guys wait for a 1/32 A-10? Trumpter gave it to them, and are also about to release a giant 1/32 F-105 that nobody expected. I don't know what these guys are trying to compensate for but they seem to LOVE huge models. Even 1/32 wasn't big enough...they're releasing WWII aircraft in 1/24 scale. With that in mind, a 1/350 Nimitz is right up their alley. john fiebke ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Ricjus001 Subject: Re: Orange peel >> I painted and decaled the hull and deck of my Skywave Spruance, but when I sprayed it with Testors Dullcote, it orange peeled on me. The clear parts of the decals are flat, but the rest of the deck is not. I really don't want to strip the paint and start over. Is there anything I can do? << I found on the Revell Forestall that applying Dullcote too soon after applying the decals caused them to shrink up and be ruined. The paint was okay, being applied some days before. My experience is to apply the Dullcote some hours after decals. Justin D Richard Windham, ME ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "wblad" Subject: Re: USS Wyoming The Wyoming was nowhere near the D-Day beaches on 30 Apr 1945, for two reasons: 1) The invasion was on 6 June 1944; 2) Wyoming was in the Norfolk Navy Yard for Jan to April 1945, and then served on training duties until after VE-Day in Chesapeake Bay, where she was known as the "Chesapeake Raider." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: Re: Doolittle Raid Escort Ships MGFoster wrote - >> I wish to build one of the CAs that accompied the Doolittle raid (USS Northampton CA26, USS Salt Lake City CA25, USS Nashville CL43, USS Vincennes CA44). I'd prefer the Northampton or the Salt Lake City (SLC). I've seen the USS Louisville, a sister ship of the Northampton, on Pacific Front's website. It's a Tamiya kit, 1/700 scale. Price about $US12. Does anyone know about this kit? Can it be converted to the Northampton? << For US heavy cruisers, Tamiya only makes an INDIANAPOLIS, whose sole sister was PORTLAND. Corsair Armada produced a 1/700 NORTHAMPTON in resin a while back. >> The SLC is a Pensacola class cruiser. Is there a 1/700 scale kit of that available, or one of its class-sisters that can be converted? << Not that I'm aware of. NEW ORLEANS class ships have been done in resin at various times by Loose Cannon (QUINCY and VINCENNES) and Wave Line (NEW ORLEANS and SAN FRANCISCO), and Corsair Armada has done the light cruiser PHOENIX (sister to NASHVILLE). By the way, the eight destroyers in HORNET's Task Force were BALCH (DD-363), BENHAM (DD-397), ELLET (DD-398), FANNING (DD-385), GRAYSON (DD-435), GWIN (DD-433), MEREDITH (DD-434), and MONSSEN (DD-436). With the recent arrival of the Skywave LIVERMORE/MONSSEN, you can now add a ship from that class to your Doolittle Raid collection. MWL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Devin" Subject: Re: Doolittle Raiders Colors There was posted this morning (Thursday, November 21st) a build article on a 1/48th scale B-25 in Doolittle markings, on the Modeling Madness website. http://www.modelingmadness.com/ The colors for all aircraft were standard and minimal, only a few had nose art. Devin ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: Burl Burlingame Subject: Re: Doolittle markings The B-25s used by the Doolittle group had colored bands on the cowling fronts to denote different squadrons or flights. These were painted over aboard ship while on the voyage across the Pacific. The whole front of the cowls were OD. Some of the vets remember the entire plane being painted OD, top and bottom, but photographs show otherwise. Also, do not be fooled by stills from the movies "30 Seconds Over Tokyo" or "Pearl Harbor." BB ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: "Clive Lawford" Subject: Re: Lifeboat Colours Hi again Michael, Do you have a code for the paint used on the deck as well (Black/Dark Grey)? Clive ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "melee" Subject: http://wwww.britishpathe.com CA139JOHNF Regarding the http://wwww.britishpathe.com homepage......did you give the full address, when I try it, an error message is all I get. I'd love to get some of their films. Thanks Lee Shackelford ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Clive Lawford" Subject: Re: Lifeboat colours Hi Michael, Thanks very much for the information and I was very pleased to be able to update my web site with it. Do you have any paint codes for the following? White - Superstructure (prior to Orange) Light green - Wheelhouse Inside (Waveneys) Light grey - Wheelhouse Inside (44-001) White - Hull Line Red - Antifouling I found the following page on the Internet http://www.indfinspec.demon.co.uk/bs_381c_colour_chart.htm which shows the a colour chart for the BS381C colours. Thanks, Clive 44ft Motor Lifeboats (Waveney Class) http://home.online.no/~lawford/xrl/xrl.htm Ramsgate Lifeboat http://home.online.no/~lawford/rl/rl.htm ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: "Dean, Tom" Subject: HMCS SACKVILLE Hi Gang: This might be a long shot, but have to try. About 4 years ago I sent a collection of pictures of HMCS SACKVILLE to someone in British Columbia. They were to use them and then forward them to someone else who was to do likewise when they were finished. I think some of the fellows might be on this list. If so do you recall where they might be. No big deal but I would like them back. After this length of time and copious amounts of beer, I have no bloody idea who I sent them too! Also a few weeks back, I asked if anyone had an opinion on what "over all" meant when referring to painting a Corvette. In this case where the books say "over all medium grey". Decks, bulkheads, weapons mounts etc?? Tom Dean Hamilton, Ontario ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: scroll saws >> The other option is used and sometimes you can luck out. I picked up a very nice Hegner for $250.00 a Multimax that is a real gem. Just a thought. The Hegner and the Excaliber are both great saws and a good used one can be just the ticket. << You stole that!!!! Used Hegners and RBI Hawk scroll saws rarely appear on Ebay and go for far more than $250. Both are excellent scroll saws and are considered top level professional grade saws. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: SPYDER62 Subject: Doolittle raid colors >> I assume you mean the cowlings, not the entire nacelle. I'm not aware of any color coding, though I'm not an expert. It may just be a trick of the light. The B-25s were Olive Drab over Neutral Gray. This is a rather dark gray ("Neutral" indicating halfway between white and black. Testors Light Gray may be too light. Don't forget the bombers had their belly turrets removed and faired over, and lengths of broomstick stuck in the tail cone to simulate machine guns and scare off fighters. Of course...ah...at 1/700 scale...um...you probably won't...gee...be modeling these. << Why not ask the Heroes that flew the mission there 61st reunion is at Travis AFB this coming year http://www.jimmydoolittlereunion.com/ The lighter color might even be from the salt spray that hit the front of the aircraft. That was not the smoothest of seas for that mission, my dad was on the Salt Lake City for the raid. rich ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: "John Anderson" Subject: Andrea Gail (Perfect Storm) For a Long time a friend of mine has been collecting pictures of the Andrea Gail, and would really love to build a radio controlled model of her, anyone know of where we might obtain a set of drawings for her or one of her "class" , any directional assistance would be greatly appreciated John Anderson Power Squadron Officer San Francisco Model Yacht Club Sub Comm. # 2160 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Robert P. Leonti" Subject: Message To Gene Larson Gene, Did You receive my money order for the Jules Verne Nautilus? Bob Leonti ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 19) From: Shirley Sachsen Subject: Trumpeter list Not sure if it was posted here yet or not, but here is the Trumpeter 2003-2004 list: 1/350 Scale 5605 USS Nimitz Class A/C Carrier 5606 USSR Admiral Kuzetsov A/C Carrier 5607 SS Jeremiah O'Brien Liberty SHip 5608 USS Lexington CV-2 A/C Carrier 5609 USS Saratoga CV-3 A/C Carrier FINALLY!!! a NIMITZ in 1/350!!!! be still my heart. now all we need is a 27A/C Essex.... s ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume