Subject: SMML VOL 2030 Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2002 01:07:22 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Grave site respect. Keep it in perspective 2: Re: ORP Dragon - D Day 3: ORP Dragon 4: john sutherland query 5: british pathe 6: Pathe news reels 7: Re: artifacts/titanic/bus? 8: Re: Andrea Gail (Perfect Storm) 9: Re: Doolittle colors 10: Doolittle raid 11: Re: ORP Dragon 12: Re: Japanese MAS 13: F.A.A. in WWII 14: proposed capital ships 15: Re: USS Virginia CGN-38 16: British Pathe 17: Friends for the Matchbox/Revell Flower Class Corvette 18: USS Monssen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Titanic artifacts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Trumpeter list 2: Great lakes Memories catalog ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR Subject: Re: Grave site respect. Keep it in perspective >> Sorry for the sarcasm, but I was quite angered by the callousness of this remark. Human life is (or should be...) sacred, regardless of the circumstances. We can learn from pieces of the wreck...it is a way of rememberence...but we shouldn't profit from them. Just my opinion. << All this needs to kept in its proper perspective. While I agree that those who perish in everything from wars to terrorist acts of destruction deserve our reverence and respect, but life does go on. They rebuilt the Pentagon. Should they have cleared out that section of the building for a memorial? Of course not. Automobiles are scrapped and used for salvage everyday. Shouldn't we preserve them as grave sites and memorials to those unfortunates who perished in them? Callous as this may sound, the Titanic is little more than an automobile destroyed in a crash after someone perished in it. The only difference is that some folks are making money off this historical "auto accident." I don't mean to sound callous, but historical significance should take precedence where the Titanic is concerned. Nothing keeps the memory of those souls lost better than seeing the actual artifacts of the Titanic IMHO. Unfortunately, the only way most of us would ever get a chance to see these wonderful artifacts is because someone can make money getting them to the public. If there wasn't any money to be made from the respectful display of these artifacts they would still be at the bottom of the Atlantic ocean. Soon the Titanic will nothing more than a memory, and I for one am glad someone retrieved some of the artifacts from the ocean floor so we can respect the memories of those lost and enjoy history at the same time. I know this won't solve anything, but it's just my opinion. And I respect the opinions of those who disagree. Rusty White IPMS/USA #20181 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Sab1156 Subject: Re: ORP Dragon - D Day Dear John Sutherland, The german words mean: hellblau=lightblue, dunkelgrau bis schwarz: darkgray to black, Stahldeck-dunkelblau" steeldeck - darkblue, Holzdeck-holzfarben: wooden deck -wood colour, Schornsteinkappe-schwarz matt: Funnelcap or top-mat black Best Regards Detlef Hartwig ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: "Lars Scharff" Subject: ORP Dragon Hi John, this part of the armarment of Dragon's last outfit is certain: 5 6in 1 twin 4in 2 quad pompoms no torpedo tubes I'm not sure about the 20mm outfit. They are two twins beneath the bridge and one twin after fith 6 in on the quarterdeck. Two singles are beneath the fore funnel on platforms originally probably for the pompom directors. There are probably positions beneath the main mast, but I don't know, if these are singles or twins. The JSC card kit has singles beneath the main mast and the kit matches the photos regarding the other positions. I have a profile of Dragon with this 4 colour camouflage scheme and wrong armarment. Perhaps HP use this. The outfit of the HP kit is wrong for D day. The three quad pompoms and the torpedo tubes (but triples!) are correct for april 1943, but then she had 8 single 20 mm. But I don't know any picture of this period. The translation for the colours are: Stahldeck = Dunkelblau (steal decks in dark blue) Holzdeck = Holzfarben (wood decks unpainted) Schornsteinkappe = Mattschwarz (funnel cap is black) I have no informations regarding the radar outfit and the exact colours of her camouflage. But I would also suggest three colours - B55, (Hellblau = light blue), G45 and G10. If you need photos, Damian Pliszka scanned some for me from an Polish article. I can email you them. Please keep me informed, if you find something new. Best regards Lars Scharff ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: "bert" Subject: john sutherland query stahldeck = steeldeck. dunkelblau = darkblue. holzdeck = wooddeck, holzfarben = wood colour, schornsteinkappe = funnelcap, mattschwarz = mattblack. TaT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "bert" Subject: british pathe the address i got it with here in Australia is www.britishpathe.com I think there is one too many wubbleyous in the address as originally sent. TaT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: John Kutina Subject: Pathe news reels To all those who are having trouble with this --- try my message.I got results on the last three selection boxes on the first page. http://www.britishpathe.com/index.cfm John Kutina - Seattle ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: Edd Pflum Subject: Re: artifacts/titanic/bus? John wrote: >> I'm speechless. (But still able to write). The Titanic is a grave. By the way...the dead have been removed from the WTC site...do you want to build a Wal-mart there? How 'bout a mini-mall? Those who died there weren't defending their country, so according to your philosophy its clean territory to do with as we will. << Yes. Let's put up another skyscraper. A far better tribute (to our indomitable spirit) than some little park with a plaque. Go to any WW2 battlefield. You will not find burned out tanks littering the landscape, each with a note dedicating it to the brave men who died in battle. Sailors died on the Mary Rose and Wasa, but both have been raised. The Arizona is still in place, but the other victims were raised, scrapped or refitted and sent back to war. There is a debate raging here in the States over certain Civil War battlefields. Not over the fields themselves, mind you, but the land surrounding the battlefields. Certain types of commercialization are being deemed "too crass". It's apparently alright to build a motel or a restaurant to profit from tourists, but not an amusement park. >> Sorry for the sarcasm, but I was quite angered by the callousness of this remark. Human life is (or should be...) sacred, regardless of the circumstances. We can learn from pieces of the wreck...it is a way of rememberence...but we shouldn't profit from them. Just my opinion. << If every place where a human being had died, or was buried, or fought a battle was sacred, and therefore untouchable, I suspect we would all be standing on each other's shoulders on some rock in the Antarctic. Profit is the grease of a free-market economy. Denying the profit motive is like building a magnificent machine and then refusing to oil it because the oil would "dirty" the surface. The results are the same: everything grinds to a halt. Edd ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: Randy Ward Subject: Re: Andrea Gail (Perfect Storm) I used to work with someone who knew two of the guys lost on the Andrea Gail. I also had thought of doing a model of her. I collected a few photos of the real boat off the web. The boat in the movie did look noticably different, so you might need to define which boat you really want to model. I understand that the movie boat was taken to Gloucester for tourists to pay to board. Apparently, the proceeds (or part) were to go to the families of those lost at sea. (Gloucester has lost hundreds of fishermen over the centuries.) If you're near Gloucester, or want to call their Chamber of Commerce, you might find out if the boat is still there. I'm happy to share the photos I have (most taken Aug. 27, 1990), as well as those of the Hannah Boden and Lady Grace (very similar is design). Randy ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: SolidStump Subject: Re: Doolittle colors >> A revision to Spec. 12114, Technical Order T-07-1-1 of June 1942, allowed Medium Green 612 to replace Olive Drab altogether. This was a result of the problems encountered with the rapid fading of the Olive Drab paint, however, did not become standard practice. It is important to note that variations in the basic scheme were uncommon prior to the release of T.O. T-07-1-1. Sorry, started babbling... << It's really good babble. When doing WWII wingy thingys those olive drabs look monotonous. Your insights into the fading give a person some range to painting up a model. Thanks Jeff Simon Scheuer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: "Don Macdonald" Subject: Doolittle raid Hello there On the subject of the Raid if you can fine the book called 30 seconds over Tokyo, it is written by Ted lawson, They did a move with the same title but the book tells what it was realy like, There is an up date of that same book now out with more infomation I have the 1945 or 6 I know it was one of the first Version of the book, One more thing If you look up the Merced air musume, In Merced Ca. That will help ya as well . If you look up air musumes on the web I am sure you will fine it, there is a web page that is called Yello airplane or something like that has a list of all air musumes.. (I have to admit I have thought about doing an RC of the Hornet with a deck load of B-25s Now that would lintresting for sure ,) They have a B-25 that was set up to look like Capt's Doolittle bomber, Ted himself was I think was a member of that musume as well but I am not all that sure but if you get incontact with the museum I am sure they would help with your project. Don Macdonald The Portland Rustbucket ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: LARYEH Subject: Re: ORP Dragon There is a web site for the Polish navy in WW II with drawings by Bartelski (I don't have a net connection where I am writing from, so apologise for not giving the address) I do happen to have a print of the Dragon drawing from the site with me here. It does not show any single 20mm, The twin 20mm are abreast the bridge and abreast the radar lantern. The drawing does give a good impression of the camo pattern, and shows accurately the extent of the wooden decks (The three colors are not reproduced well on the web, but you have them already) Translations: Stahldeck-Dunkelblau - steel deck - dark blue (For an admiralty light pattern this is probably MS2) Holzdeck holzfarben - wooden deck wood colored Schornsteinkappe mattschwarz - funnel cap flat black Aryeh Wetherhorn Elazar, Israel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: ALROSS2 Subject: Re: Japanese MAS >> Anyone have any info on these boats being used by the Japanese? Any lead on pictures etc would be appreciated. << According to several sources, the Japanese acquired a single boat from Baglietto in 1940 and converted it to an MGB in 1941. Copying, then slightly modifying the basic Italian design, the Japanese then built a series of their own. Limited info on these boats can be found in: Bagnasco, Erminio - Le Motosiluranti della seconda guerra mondiale. Bagnasco, Erminio - I MAS e le motosiluranti italiane Watts, A.J. - Japanese Warships of World War II These books are long out of print, but you might find one through interlibrary loan. Drawings and photos of MAS 451 can be seen in I MAS on pages 356-57. Additionally, one of the old "Maru Grapics" provided some coverage of these boats. Basic characteristics (according to Bagnasco) for MAS 451-452: 18m x 4.78m x 1.56m 2 - Isotta ASM 183 engines 24.5 tons 1 - 13.2mm Breda mg 2 - 450mm torpedoes Al Ross ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: "Chris Drage" Subject: F.A.A. in WWII Kia Ora Guys and Giggles, Can anyone point me to a well illustrated reference book for F.A.A. aircraft colours and insignia (markings etc) during WWII? From my naval references I can only get a hint of some markings. In particular I am looking for: 885 Sqdn (Seafires) 888 Sqdn (Martlets) 893 Sqdn (Martlets) 820 Sqdn (Albacores) ..............all first half of 1943 Cheers! Regards Chris He tao rakau e taea te karo kupu kaore e taea te karo (Te reo Maori) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 14) From: PaulShip37 Subject: proposed capital ships Can anyone out there guide me towards some information on the French capital ships that were to follow the JEAN BART and RICHELIEU? As I understand it there was to be a 3rd unit (CLEMENCEAU) with a mild secondary battery re-arrangement and a 4th unit with major design features altered (GASCOGNE). Yesterday I came across a Vol.1/ 1988 issue of WARSHIP INTERNATIONAL with an article by Stephen McLaughlin that decribes a class of Battleships authorized by the French Govt in 1940 (design never finalized) consisting of six ships (ALSACE, NORMANDIE, FLANDRE, BOURGOGNE and two units never named.) The same issue also mentioned that the Dutch were planning a battlecruiser in 1939 that would have had some design basis in the German SCHARNHORST/ GNEISENAU class. All this is new to me, anyone interested in an online/offline discussion of these ships???? Paul Giltz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 15) From: "Hardin, Larry C" Subject: Re: USS Virginia CGN-38 Thanks Peter, I will look into it. Have a happy Thanksgiving!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 16) From: CA139JOHNF Subject: British Pathe To: Lee Shackleford Try http://www.britishpathe.com/flashintro.cfm John Frohock ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17) From: PXGOLLIN Subject: Friends for the Matchbox/Revell Flower Class Corvette Langley Models have already announced an "OO" (1/76th) CLYDE PUFFER, now their catalogue has lots more goodies announced; http://www.aztexwd.com/acatalog/Shop_Front_Boats___Ships__NEW__111.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 18) From: "Leonard, Michael W" Subject: USS Monssen MGFoster wrote - >> I'm not sure I can do a destroyer in 1/700 -- its too small and my thumbs are too big :-) << In that case I can recommend the excellent Blue Water Navy kit in 1/350. MWL ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: SHIPMDLR Subject: Titanic artifacts With all due respect to those who disagree with me on this subject, the Titanic Artifacts Exhibit will be in Oklahoma City during the IPMS/USA National Convention. The Omniplex Museum is on our Bus Stop Tour and you will be taken right to the front door. Go to our web site and click on the Tours page, then the Omniplex icon for more information. Yes, I know they are making money off the artifacts, but no one would be able to see any of them if they weren't. Rusty White # 20181 Chairman 2003 IPMS/USA National Convention http://www.ipmsmetrookc.org OKC In 2003! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: James Corley Subject: Re: Trumpeter list >> now all we need is a 27A/C Essex.... << Nautilus has the masters for the Yorktown/Enterprise "finished" - we are just waiting to see if the scaled master actually fits the model!! What it should do is fit right on, but who knows. We will also build the proper catwalks, etc. to backdate it to Yorktown at Midway. As for a 27A, that conversion is being researched right now and the plans are to do the island before the kit comes out and finish it up with the proper catwalks, etc. later, just like with the Hornet. We might even do soem airplanes for it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: GtLakesMem Subject: Great lakes Memories catalog Just a quick note to let you know that Great Lakes Memories is about to distribute its 2003 Catalog. We concentrate on the Great Lakes but have some other items. In the Catalog there is included 1/1200 Models, Resin Great Lakes Ships, Wood Model Ship Kits, Modeling Blue Prints, Books, Videos, and many other items. If you would like a copy, please send your snail mail address to gtlakesmem@aol.com Overseas customers are appreciated. Al Jackman Great Lakes Memories ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume