Subject: SMML VOL 2035 Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2002 14:20:19 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Plastic 1:700 Ship Kits for Sale at Half Price 2: USS Monssen in 1/350 scale 3: Cage Masts 4: Re: Production Runs 5: Durban Castle 6: Re: Olympia 7: Re: Arizona kits 8: Re: Various 9: USCGC "Buff" color 10: Re: Union-Castle House Flag 11: Re: Production Runs 12: Re: Heller 1/400 13: Re: cancelled battleships -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Re: Heller 1/400 Hood ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Henry Blecha Subject: Plastic 1:700 Ship Kits for Sale at Half Price Shane This showed up another newsgroup earlier this week. May be of interest to the SMML folks. Henry >> I am making available my collection of unbuilt 1:700 scale warships from Tamiya, Fujimi, Aoshima, Hasegawa, Matchbox, Skywave, at about half price of what the ships currently sell for at Squadron Shop and other stores. All are in kit form, most with shrink wrap removed but plastic parts still in their plastic bags. All kits are complete and unbuilt, except for one which will be noted. I will sell one or all kits on a first come basis. Priority mail will most likely be between 3.50 to 9.50 depending on number of kits shipped. If you have any interest in the kits, please email me at rborczak@cox.net or phone at 623-214-6201. I will reply to all email to advise what is available or sold. Name of ship, Company, List price, Sale price. USS Washington BB Aoshima 19.00 10.00 USS Missouri BB Fujimi 25.46 12.50 USS Hornet CV Tamiya 18.50 10.00 USS Lexington CV Fujimi 24.00 12.00 USS North Carolina BB Aoshima 19.00 12.00 USS South Dakota BB Hasegawa 19.00 10.00 USS Alabama BB Hasegawa 19.00 10.00 USS Indianapolis CA Matchbox 33.00 15.00 USS LST class Skywave 13.95 7.00 HMS Illustrious CA Aoshima 26.00 10.00* HMS Hood BB Tamiya 18.50 10.00 HMS King George V BB Tamiya 18.50 10.00 HMS Nelson BB Tamiya 16.00 8.00 HMS Kelly DD ( 2) Marchbox 15.00 7.50 ea. HMS Exeter CA AMT 14.95 7.50 HMS Ariadne Minelayer Matchbox 15.00 7.50 HMS O class DD Skywave 11.50 6.00 Tirpitz BB Aoshima 19.00 10.00 Scharnhorst BB Tamiya 18.00 10.00 Graf Spee CA Fujimi 19.98 10.00 Gneisenau BB Tamiya 19.98 10.00 Narvik class DD Matchbox 11.50 6.00 Z class DD Skywave 11.50 6.00 UVII class U Boat Hasegawa 6.98 4.00 Torpedo Boats Skywave 6.98 4.00 IJN Junyo CV Tamiya 27.00 15.00 IJN Shinano CV Tamiya 32.95 16.00 IJN Yamato BB Tamiya 37.00 17.00 IJN Ryujo CV Fujimi 24.95 10.00** IJN Kaga CV Hasegawa 28.00 15.00 IJN Akagi CV Hasegawa 28.00 15.00 IJN Hiryu CV Minicraft 29.95 15.00 IJN Soryu CV Minicraft 29.95 15.00 IJN Isi BB/CV Hasegawa 28.98 15.00 IJN Hyuga BB Hasegawa 28.98 15.00 IJN Kongo BB Fujimi 31.96 15.00 IJN Yamashsiro BB Aoshima 26.00 15.00 IJN Hiei BB Fujimi 32.00 16.00 IJN Haruna BB Fujimi 31.96 16.00 IJN Kirishima BB Fujimi 31.96 16.00 IJN Mutsu BB Minicraft 32.95 16.00 IJN Fuso B Minicraft` 32.95 16.00 IJN Nagato BB Aoshima 24.95 14.00 IJN Maya CA Minicraft 15.95 8.00 IJN Suzuya CA Tamiya 18.50 10.00 IJN Haguro CA Hasegawa 19.95 10.00 IJN Chokai CA Minicraft 15.95 8.00 IJN Myoko CA Hasegawa 18.98 10.00 IJN Ashigara CA Hasegawa 22.98 12.00 IJN Mogami CA Tamiya 18.50 10.00 IJN Nitta Maru Aoshima 14.00 8.00 IJN Hikara Maru Hasegawa 14.50 8.00 IJN Takao CA Minicraft 25.95 12.00 IJN Tone CA Fujimi 16.95 10.00 IJN Aaoba CA Hasegawa 19.95 10.00 IJN Kumano CL Tamiya 18.50 10.00 IJN Agano CL Tamiya 18.50 10.00 IJN Kuma CL Tamiya 18.50 10.00 IJN Nachi CL Hasegawa 18.50 10.00 IJN Jintsu CL Fujimi 19.95 10.00 IJN Nagara CL Fujimi 14.95 8.00 IJN Tama CL Tamiya 25.95 12.00 IJN Isuzu CL Fujimi 18.50 10.00 IJN Atago CA Aoshima 15.95 10.00 IJN Furutaka CA Hasegawa 16.00 10.00 IJN Katori CL Aoshima 16.00 10.00 IJN Tatsuta CL Hasegawa 19.95 10.00 IJN Kako CA Hasegawa 19.95 10.00 IJN Tugger Set S ? 5.00 IJN I-370, I-68 SS Minicraft 9.98 5.00 IJN I-36, I-171 SS Hasegawa 9.98 5.00 IJN I-16, I-58 SS Tamiya 9.95 5.00 IJN I-400 SS Minicraft 9.95 5.00 UJN I-15, I-46 SS Fujimi 9.95 5.00 IJN Fubuki DD Tamiya 11.50 6.00 IJN Mutsuki DD Hasegawa 9.98 5.00 IJN Minegumo DD Hasegawa 9.98 5.00 IJN Shiranu DD Aoshima 9.98 5.00 IJN Ariaki DD Aoshima 9.98 5.00 IJN Amatsukaze DD Aoshima 9.98 5.00 IJN Mikazuki DD Hasegawa 9.98 5.00 IJN Akishimo DD Hasegawa 9.98 5.00 IJN Akizuki DD Fujimi 9.98 5.00 IJN Shiratuyu DD Tamiya 12.95 7.00 IJN Nenoki DD Minicraft 9.50 5.00 IJN Hatsushimo DD Aoshima 9.98 5.00 IJN I-1, I-6 SS Minicraft 9.50 5.00 IJN Arashio DD Hasegawa 9.98 5.00 IJN Hatsuharu DD Aoshima 9.98 5.00 IJN Kagero DD Aoshima 9.98 5.00 IJN Yogumo DD Aoshima 9.98 5.00 IJN Shikinami DD Tamiya 11.50 6.00 IJN Sakura DD Fujimi 9.98 5.00 *I purchased the Illustrious in 1980's and did not look into the unshrink-wrapped box until now. Someone has glued the flight deck and bottom to the hull. One Swordfish plane is missing, and the one elevator is missing, but should be easily made with sheet plastic. That is why the price is low. **The Ryujyo came with a misformed gun sponson on port side. I think it can be built up with green putty. Also, discounted further. << ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Timothy Dike Subject: USS Monssen in 1/350 scale To do a Monssen in 1/350 you can start with a Blue Water Navy USS Aaron Ward or USS Tillman kit. But you will have to do a little reworking to get to the proper configuration. What you really need is a hybrid of some of those two kits. The Aaron ward will provide the Gleaves class base kit with the correct high bridge and no front overhang. But you need the twin torpedo mid superstructure of the USS Tillman. You could start with a Tillman, but be aware that it represents a later version with a reduced height bridge so you will need the Aaron Wards bridge. Try contacting Blue Water Navy and see if they will mix and match parts for you. I know they have done this for others in the past. You will have to make changes to the aft superstructure though. The Monssen had two 20 mm guns on the rear in 42. So the entire splinter shield around the 1.1 and single 20 mm will have to come off and be replaced by smaller half round tubs with gun directors adjacent to them. The #3 gun mount will also have to have its top removed as this was an open top mount. You can also file some grooves into the top to represent a canvas top draped over it's frame. Paint it a slightly different shade to give it some contrast. Or get out the dremel and open it up. A great source of info is the Classic Warships Benson/Gleaves class photo album. Drawings of the Monssen are in the back. You can also compare the Pit-Road USS Monssen in 1/700 scale for locations of the components. The Blue Water Navy Aaron Ward, CW book, and Pit-Road kit are all in the review section of ModelWarships.com. Also check out the excellent feature by Devin Poore on building the BWN Farenholt on the same site. Timothy Dike Webmaster and Editor ModelWarships.com http://www.modelwarships.com/index1.html ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: Michael McMurtrey Subject: Cage Masts Does anyone have copies of original construction drawings of cage masts as fitted to U.S. battleships? I'm particularly interested in those as fitted to Texas (BB35) but I'm presuming there were generic drawings as well. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Re: Production Runs From: "Peter Chant" >> Mike Bartel's note on his new models prompts me to ask something I have often wondered. If it is not a commercial secret, Mike or Caroline Snyder, what sort of numbers do you produce of a particular model? Are we talking 10's, 100's or 1000's? << Speaking just for IHP, my production runs vary. I make so many different items, too, that sometimes I have to make small quantities to make more of a variety (I have only so much budget to work with). For the ships, I usually do 30 to 50 pcs of one ship at a time. Same for the model railroad items. The moulds sometimes last long enough that we can do more (this summer, I got 85 N scale F59PHI loco shells out of one mould before it started to wear out). The No.13-16 battleship, for example, is a production run of 30 kits this year. The Lexington will probably be about 50 kits because it's a more popular subject. The Algerie will likely be around 75 or 100, divided into two versions. The Invincible will be about 30 kits. And, I do them one run at a time- I don't do concurrent runs, like I sometimes used to do. I will do 30 No.13-16 BB kits, ship them all out, and then contract with the casters for the next project. Mike Bartel ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: "Millen, Alan R." Subject: Durban Castle >> The emblem or badge on Alan Millen's mug has been identified by one reader as that of the British & Commonwealth Shipping Co which was formed in 1956 to absorb Union-Castle and Clan lines and their subsidiaries (source: British Passenger Liners of the Five Oceans by Commander C.R. Vernon Gibbs). If this is correct and, since there was only one ship of that name, the time frame for the mug must be somewhere between 1956 and 1962. << Many thanks to all of the respondants. And thank you, michael, for the time-period reply. Alan R. Millen ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Richard Sweeney Subject: Re: Olympia Hello, I know the USS Olympia is not a battleship, but as the single surviving American warship of that Period, and I specify, that period. I figured I would inquire of a friend who works on her what his take is on the Pilot house question. Here it is: >> Actually, the red mahoghany sounds about right. In some cases, the wood panels were removable, revealing steel below. The steel would be painted gray. On OLYMPIA, I am not absolutely positive, but I do not believe it had removable panels, and, even if it did, if Dewey would have bothered to remove them. All of the wood aboard ship was usually removed going into battle - mess tables and benches thrown overboard, wood paneling removed from places like the wardroom and either stowed below or tossed overboard. Dewey refused to do this, which upset some of the crew at the time. It greatly increased the possibility of fire, and death from splintering. As it turned out, Dewey was OK in his choice, and the men were later thankful as the OLYMPIA was the only ship in the squadron where the men did not have to eat of the deck for months! As for protection, going into battle, command was supposed to be transferred to the armored conning tower, since the pilot house offered no protection. Again, Dewey did not do this. The odd situation aboard OLYMPIA was that Dewey and Lt. Calkins worked in the pilot house and from the added platform over the conning tower (see http://www.spanamwar.com/Olyinact.htm and http://www.spanamwar.com/Olyin1899.htm), with Dewey essentially commanding both the squadron and OLYMPIA navigationally. Capt. Gridley, in terrible health, was in the conning tower where he directed fire. Again, Dewey was lucky and the pilot house not hit. Basically, what was said in the discussion was correct to my knowledge. << So this was from someone who who works on an American warship of that period. I figured it could contribute to the conversation. Richard Sweeney PS: >> By the way, the night time tours for May had to be canned. The Museum could not provide the funds needed for a few things (safety lighting, additional security) and could not muster the number of volunteers needed. We'll still be there, but the tours will not be held. << ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: "Ouellette, Lawrence M" Subject: Re: Arizona kits JVT7532 wrote: >> Anyone know the difference in this kit of the USS Arizona from Mini Hobby models of China verses the Banner kit in 1/350? They sound like their exactly the same kit? << Jon, They are almost exactly the same kit. The lower hull of the Mini Hobby kit I have is designed for putting the ship in water. If I remember correctly, it is set up for a single screw and rudder. The Banner kit lower hull is set up for a display model. Larry Ouellette Volunteer, USS Salem (CA 139) United States Naval Shipbuilding Museum Quincy, Massachusetts, USA http://www.uss-salem.org/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: HAZEGRAYADM Subject: Re: Various Two things: to Bruno Gire, the Trumpeter Essex kit is being worked on as we speak/write. Be patient: this is a very complex project in trying to guide them towards two kits that will suffice for building ANY WW II version of the first eight short hulls. It will happen, but not by Christmas. to Art Nicholson and the Benson DDs: there appears no need for a dedicated set since existing sets such as Tom's modelworks #701 (My personal favorite, of course) will furnish all that would be required. I used it on my Fletcher. If you have any ideas on expanding same, give him an E-mail with your ideas. Bert McDowell. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 9) From: "Robert P. Leonti" Subject: USCGC "Buff" color To All, If you want the true Coast Guard mast color, buy Interlux 'Sundown Buff'. I was on the USCGC Tamaroa WMEC-166 for four years and that is what was used, Case Closed! On second thought, go to a CG STATION AND ASK FOR SOME. Capt. Bob Leonti ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 10) From: HGYL Subject: Re: Union-Castle House Flag The Union-Castle Mail Steamship Company was formed in early 1900 by the merger of the Union Steamship company and the Castle Line. The Union-Castle house flag was first hoisted in "Dunottar Castle" and "Gaika" in Southampton docks on 17th March 1900. In 1956, the Union-Castle Mail SS Company and the Clan Line Steamers Limited merged to form the British and Commonwealth Shipping Company Limited. Although it was announced as a merger it was in fact a takeover of Union-Castle by Clan Line and Cayzer Irvine had management control. The British and Commonwealth flag to which someone referred the other day was a combination of the Clan Line flag (red ground, red lion on white diamond in centre) and the Union-Castle flag which I have previously described. The B&C flag was a swallow tailed burgee with a blue ground, a white cross with a red cross superimposed on it, a white diamond in the centre with a red lion in the diamond. For many years after the formation of British and Commonwealth, the B&C Group burgee was worn superior to the individual house flag of the various companies in the group, e.g. Union-Castle, Clan, King, Houston, Bullard King, etc.. After the rundown of the group's shipping interests began in the early/mid 70s, the individual house flags were dispensed with, no doubt as an economy measure. I cannot explain why the badge on Alan's mug does not appear to have the red cross on the flag. Possibly it has worn off; pewter mugs are subject to fairly vigorous polishing. I have a couple of Union-Castle souvenir teaspoons with similar enamelled badges which have not stood the test of time very well. I suppose they were fairly cheaply made in the first place. Note that Union-Castle is hyphenated. Best wishes to all, Harold Lincoln ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 11) From: wem Subject: Re: Production Runs Hi Peter, and to all who are probably interested in answers to the same question.... How many kits do WEM produce in a typical production run? Well, it does depend on the subject, AND the scale you are dealing with. We always start with a production run of 50 (50 is generally break-even on set-up costs), and then re-order in multiples of 25 as a rule, IF there is demand. For some subjects, such as 1/350 HMS BRILLIANT, and HMS BRAVE, we have only sold 2/3 of the initial production run over a 5 year period. Other subjects, particularly WW2, destroyer size and smaller, we are into having sold maybe 150 to 200 over a five year period. Another good example in relation to scale is the WEM K 601 1/600 HMS EXETER 2002 kit. This has been out on the shelves for several months, and is an absolutely stunning piece of work by Peter Hall. We have sold 28 kits. This is due to the minority interest in 1/600 scale. I expected this before we went into this project. On my estimate, it will take 2 years to cover the initial outlay, consisting of design/pattern-work/PE design/PE Tooling/PE Production/Instructions, and mould making/casting (an area where we are totally dependent on someone else doing this work, as we have no in-house casting at WEM), then there are the packaging costs/printing, and the labour involved in that ... and that's before the time taken to promote sales of the kit! Certainly, I estimate it will be around 18 months before we decide to do another 1/600 scale subject.. again, my predictions are usually spot-on. Now you SMMLlie folks will hopefully understand why most small scale kit manufacturers have to either do this stuff in addition to an outside, often full-time job, or have their fingers in several puddings, like we do at WEM, with books and COLOURCOATS and PE and plastic kits. Even with all this extra stuff, John and I would be struggling to live on WEM alone. Fortunately, as John is an EXTREMELY well-paid consultant architectural historian with Nevada DoT, and I have my own private income as well, we don't have to live hand-to-mouth ;^) The big bonus for having WEM in our lives at South Farm, is NOT the income, which is less than I earned as a Staff Nurse, but the joy of 1. walking downstairs to work at something we enjoy, 2. having modelling friends all over the world, accessible by email/phone etc, and 3. living in one of the loveliest parts of Britain with my wonderful husband ;^) Cheers, Caroline Snyder White Ensign Models http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 12) From: "Barry Fleet" Subject: Re: Heller 1/400 Peter, There is a fairly detailed review of the original 1/400 Heller Hood at the "HMS Hood Association" web-page (in addition ther are also three sets of completed models to view). I built it back in the 70s and thought it was wonderfull (It was the first large kit that I built and I'd always had a passion for the "mighty ood"). I have recently re-ordered it from White Ensign Models in the UK. I was under the impression that it is simply a re-issue without any change in the molds. I think that the faults are clearly laid out in the review. Suffice to say that with a lot of effort it will make a good representation of the Hood in 1941 and at 1/7th the price of one of the 1/350 models ! I guess you pay your money and take your choice. Barry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 13) From: Ted0330 Subject: Re: cancelled battleships Mike- Where are your kits for sale? i remember some reference to kits of cancelled battleships, but can't fidn it/them now. I am one of the group that would enjoy such kits, very preferably in 1:350 (bet they're in 1:700 though!!) Ted ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: John Snyder Subject: Re: Heller 1/400 Hood Hi Peter, You'll find the kit, and our dedicated photoetch set for it, AND the correct paint colours, available online from us here at White Ensign Models. Best, John Snyder White Ensign Models Home Page for WEM, http://WhiteEnsignModels.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume