Subject: SMML VOL 2037 Date: Sat, 30 Nov 2002 03:15:26 +1100 SMML is proudly sponsored by SANDLE http://sandlehobbies.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS INDEX 1: Re: Serving the guns of the Monitor 2: Re: Monitor guns 3: American Civil War Ironclad 4: Re: Heller Hood - A Novel by Frank Allen 5: The beginning!! 6: Re: Serving the Guns on Monitor 7: Re: Serving the guns of the MONITOR 8: Re: Serving the guns of the Monitor ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information 1: Buffalo SMMLcon -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD INDEX 1: Where to Get IHP Ship Kits- Addendum ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- MODELLERS ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "D.Przezdziecki" Subject: Re: Serving the guns of the Monitor Franklyn, according to Donald L.Canney's book "The Old Steam Navy" vol.2 Monitor was armed with two 11inch muzzle loaded Dahlgren smoothbores. The guns could not be trained individually and both fired in the same direction althrough elevation could have been set individually. Recoil was absorbed by a friction carriage designed by Ericsson himself. Donald L. Canney claims that the presence of the eye-bolts and absence of any geared mechanism seems to indicate that the guns were run out by block and tackle, throu Ericsson claimed that brass rollers made it possible for a gun to be run out by just one man. Regards D.P ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) From: Bradford Chaucer Subject: Re: Monitor guns >> The Monitor had two cannons, close together, in the revolving turret. I have three questions I believe SMML can answer. First, considering the new configuration etc., were they muzzle loaders or were they breech loaders? << Muzzle loading 11 inch Dahlgrens >> Second, how were they trained (aimed) individually (with block and tackle such as previous large naval guns?)? << No they were mounted on trucks which ran on tracks in the turret floor. The guns were trained (theoretically) by revolving the turret. In practice, the turret mechanism on the USS Monitor had many problems, and tended to be difficult to start moving or "tweak in" in part due to the design and to the mechanism becoming stiff due to rust among other factors. It was often easier to load and run out the gun, and aim and fire on the fly. Sometimes they also aimed by moving the ship. I believe that -problems were later worked out on follow on monitors. Among other fixes was an exterior turret race which provided a better seal against water >> Third, how was recoil absorbed? << There was a friction recoil mechanism which slowed the gun travel. However recoil was used to return the gun to the loading position, and also close the port stopper to enable the other gun port to be opened and that gun run out for firing. There was just enough space between the muzzle and the gun port stopper. The powder and shell or ball was loaded and rammed with the ram rod protruding through a hole in the port stopper. Due to the closeness of the guns and the design of the port stoppers (large thick paddles that rotated toward the center) the guns could only be fired alternately, one out for firing, the other in for loading, or both in. Never both run out. Regards, Bradford Chaucer ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) From: NAVYDAZE Subject: American Civil War Ironclad I remember an old kit of a riverboat the Robert E. Lee or something like that - don't remember the manufacturer - probably Pyro or one of the old manufacturers - anyway would it be possible to use the hull and paddle wheel for some or several types of old ironclads and scratch build the rest - Comments? Michael Donegan NAVYDAZE Naval & Aviation Artist http://www.navydaze.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4) From: Frank Allen Subject: Re: Heller Hood - A Novel by Frank Allen The Heller 1/400 scale Hood is indeed just a reissue of the old 1970s kit. Different box art, but I think that is about it. I should know what is on my own website ("Battle Cruiser Hood"), but the site has grown so large that certain details in various articles frequently escape me! At any rate, I'm pretty sure we have a basic list of problems with the kit there (look under "Hood Today" and then select "Scale Models and Miniatures", then select the Heller Hood from the list of models). Just in case the website review/problem list isn't comprehensive enough, here is a basic list of problems beyond the overall lack of detail which plagues the kit: 1. Turrets- too flat and too much like coffins (no dark humour jokes please), in that they are very angular. Rangefinders need shaping and details added. 2. Hull- Surprisingly good except for the bow...a bit too angular. Needs to be gently curved (in profile view that is). 3. Focsle Deck/Quarter Deck/Shelter Deck- the pieces fit very well, but they are typical Heller in that the planking is quite large. Also, some details are either of the wrong dimensions, or non-existant. If possible, I recommend replacing them with grooved plastic card stock and creating the various bits using bits from the kit, plastic stock and/or of course, after-market items. Not that you need to...the decks will work fine with some augmentation (added deck items and barbette vents). I only mention replacement for those who really want to go for detail. 4. Enclosed Focsle Deck- This is a major problem. This is recessed area which runs just below the top deck (Shelter Deck) along the sides of the ship. The long flimsy pieces they provide are totally wrong. Not deep enough, not the correct shape. The outermost splinter shield sits too far inboard. Get the Roberts book and enlarge the plans, then create your own structures with plastic stock. I've done this with the small Tamiya kit (which was just as bad in the lack of correct shape and proper detail). 5. Shelter Deck- This is a major problem. Totally discard this. It's just not wide enough. It doesn't work. Create a new one using Roberts book and some plastic stock. It seems daunting, but it's really not that hard to draw, cut and sand. You can add the shielding and the details with plastic stock and detail parts. 6. Funnel bases- They totally ommited the forward base and the three surrounding vents!!! Very easy to make though. The aft base needs a roof (YES, IT DID HAVE A ROOF, AS DID THE FORWARD ONE!). The searchlight platform needs some work as well...you'll need to build the Disinfector House and Motor Boat Workshop (again, easy). Not hard. I just built these for my smaller Tamiya kit (Tamiya was close, but even they didn't get it right...made it one block instead of a two tiered structure. In fact, NO plastic/resin model producer has ever gotten this 100% right to the best of my knowledge. I could be wrong though.). 7. Aft superstructure (After Concentrating Position)- I can't recall exactly, but I believe it needs a bit of work...needs a large notch cut out of the port rear side, windows added along the bottom rear, and needs the top rear rounded off, the bottom of the front needs to be extended (it's "notched" in the kit) and more windows added. Not that hard considering I just did most of that to my 1/700 Tamiya kit and it is much smaller. I'm no super modeller either, so if I can do it, anyone can.....just don't cut yourself to pieces like I did (those Exacto blades snag and then come free a bit too forceably for me...oops, there goes another finger tip!). 8. Bridge- Ouch! This is a major problem to say the least. It's much too basic above the lowest level. The lowest level needs splinter shielding, the conning tower needs some shaping/detailing, the Conning Tower Platform and the aft supports need to be rebuilt (they have the rear portion as a large filled-in block which is incorrect). The decks above this are a bit rough as well (they are workable though...just need reshaping and some detailing). Best to get Roberts' book and make your own platforms or at least use it to guide reshaping and addition of splinter shielding/walls, doors, windows and scuttles. 9. Masts/starfish- Fair except for the supports (these are solid "chunks" rather than fine/intricate/thin supports). Of course, you can replace the starfish with the WEM photoetch set I believe. That would make one heck of an improvement. 10. Spotting Top- Very basic. Needs shaping and windows. 11. Radar, guns, boats, etc.- Shaping required, detailing needed. Perhaps some of this stuff is available aftermarket? I haven't checked. I know it seems like a lot of work, but with said book, the WEM photoetch set (and paints...get AP507B for most of the ship's surfaces, AP507A for metal decks and of course Corticene for bridge decks, plus any brand of black for the starfish and tan for the dulled teak decks), you can do a pretty good job. I've seen it done. I'll do it myself once I get some time and have completed my other Hood kits. I recommend getting it...even with extra materials it will still be far cheaper than any resin kit, plus far easier to build than one of the inexpensive but mind boggling large scale paper/card kits. It is also light years ahead of the Lindberg kit. You'll also have a large Hood much sooner than you would if you decided to wait on a new 1/350 plastic kit (I've lost confidence and all faith in ICM to complete the job, though I do have hope for the Chinese manufacturers). Frank http://hmshood.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 5) From: Henry Blecha Subject: The beginning!! I know that we have passed along to Shane and Lorna our thanks for the great job they have done and are doing to bring the SMML to all of us each day. I also think that it is fitting to also pass along our thanks to Greg Lee wherever he may be, for having the insight to get SMML started. The first volume of SMML was sent out by Greg on 15 November 1997. Not only has there been over 2000 Volumes issued, but the SMML has managed to be around for all of us for five years. Thanks Shane and Lorna and also Greg for SMML. Henry Blecha ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6) From: Peter Webster Subject: Re: Serving the Guns on Monitor Hi: Re: 1. The guns were 11" Dalhgren Smoothbore - Muzzle Loaders The armament of later ironclads included rifled guns such as the heavy Parrots, but not breechloaders during the war. 2. The gun mountings employed 'slides' as per the pivot guns on other warships. However, these slides were fixed to the turret structure, so training the guns was via the training of the turret itself. 3. The recoil of the guns was absorbed by (a) breeching ropes which could be fixed to the sliding gun carriage and/or through the cascable of the gun itself; and, (b) compression screws which via a compression plate tightened against a riband attached to the side of the slide, and, (c) a stout piece of wood called a 'hurter' attached tranversely to the rear of the slide - the final buffer if you like. When later, fabricated/riveted, carriages were used, it is likely that compression plates used between the sides of the slide were used (but that is another design description). Peter Sydney, Oz ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 7) From: THEGAVEL Subject: Re: Serving the guns of the MONITOR >> The Monitor had two cannons, close together, in the revolving turret. I have three questions I believe SMML can answer. First, considering the new configuration etc., were they muzzle loaders or were they breech loaders? << Muzzle loaders >> Second, how were they trained (aimed) individually (with block and tackle such as previous large naval guns?)? << They weren't trained individually. As the turret rotated, they were fired when they aligned with the target. The shutters covering the gun ports were found to be too hard to use in action so the turret was rotated to keep shot from coming in the open ports. >> Third, how was recoil absorbed? << By friction. The sliding carriage was screwed down to increase same. During trials, a gun was fired without the friction brake screwed down and dismounted. There was great concern over recoil in the enclosed turret space and when Monitor engaged the Virginia at Hampton Roads only half powder charges were used. This was ordered by the Navy Department, the Captain felt it was safe to use full charges. Had he done so, it is possible that the Virginia would have suffered greater damage and might have been sunk. While later versions of monitors used 15 inch guns vice 11 inch guns, there were other engagements of 11 inch gunned monitors versus casement ironclads with results to support this. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 8) From: "David Griffith" Subject: Re: Serving the guns of the Monitor Dear Franklyn, I'm pretty sure the guns of the Monitor were Dahlgren muzzle loaders. Althought the technology existed to make breech loading cannon, I don't think it was applied to guns of such a large calibre at this stage. The carriages would be of the sliding type, with the gun and its mounting recoiling up a pair of inclined wooden or iron faced rails. The energy of the recoil would be absorbed by friction, the resistance of movement against gravity (up an inclined rail) and also, I suppose, by a breech rope. The recoil would bring the muzzle inside the turret to allow for reloading. It could then be run out again for firing using blocks and tackle. I assume that the gun carriages were fixed to the floor of the turret, so they did not have any ability to be trained independently of each other. The revolving turret would make this uneccessary, anyway. The confined space inside the turret would not have allowed for any kind of independent training. As for elevation, I don't know whether this was by way of a screw through the cascabel at the breech end, or simple wedges, but naturally each gun would have been elevated independently. On the other hand, a broadside ironclad, such as the Virginia, would require to have guns that could be trained. Large calibre guns on slide carriages would have revolved around a pivot at the outboard end, fixed to the deck, with the inboard end moving on small wheels to make things easier for the gun grew. This is all largely off the top of my head, so that if anyone else has more accurate information, I am happy to stand corrected. Hope you find it useful. Regards, David Griffith ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Model club & SMMLcon Information ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: "James Kloek" Subject: Buffalo SMMLcon Based on the preliminary response we have had, the SMMLcon in Buffalo next May is definitely a go. Those of you who have expressed interest, mark that first weekend in May on your calendars. Those of you who might be interested, please let us know. Darren and I will meet in Buffalo and check out the facilities and the museum, and when we get more details, we will post them on the list and ask Shane and Lorna to post them on the website as well. In the meantime, if you have any suggestions or ideas, let us know. Darren also pointed out to me that this means we will have to build and enter a model in Noreastcon. I'd encourage anyone attending to do the same, it should be a lot of fun, and we could have one of the strongest ship categories ever. Jim ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- TRADERS, ANNOUNCEMENTS & NOTICEBOARD ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- 1) From: Mike Bartel Subject: Where to Get IHP Ship Kits- Addendum With all due apologies to Keith Butterly, Warshipbooks.com is also carrying IHP ship kits. This omission was by accident- sorry, Keith! Mike Bartel IHP http://ihphobby.tripod.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Check out the SMML site for the List Rules, Backissues, Member's models & reference pictures at: http://smmlonline.com Check out the APMA site for an index of ship articles in the Reference section at: http://apma.org.au/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- End of Volume